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How good is the AI coaching?

 
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How good is the AI coaching? - 3/26/2008 4:07:29 PM   
Longstreet_slith

 

Posts: 117
Joined: 8/25/2000
From: Iowa City, IA, USA
Status: offline 		Hi Folks,

I have been watching and waiting unitl the 2.2 upgrade came out and am now on the verge of purchasing this game. I am not at all interested in arcade but want to play as coach mode only. A very important part of this for me is how good the AI coaching is in the game. Would folks that are experienced with this game tell me about the AI? Is it a good challenge? Does it call appropriate plays depending on all of the variables of the game such as field position, score, what quarter one is in, etc.?

Thanks,
-Longstreet
Post #: 1
RE: How good is the AI coaching? - 3/26/2008 4:26:30 PM   
Hubbard

 

Posts: 128
Joined: 3/4/2006
From: Atlanta, Georgia
Status: offline 		I played my first league game with 2.2, using default playbooks, cpu vs cpu. And I did not notice any change in the AI. N.C A&T was down 42-21 to Norfolk State with approx. 2 min. to play. They were at their 20 yard line. They did not call any time outs after running the ball and ended up punting on fourth down.
Norfolk State got the ball back in their territory and proceded to pass on first down. The next play with less than a minute to play they ran the ball. N.C A&T did not call a timeout. After the next running play N.C. A&T did call a time out.

(in reply to Longstreet_slith)
Post #: 2
RE: How good is the AI coaching? - 3/26/2008 7:18:43 PM   
22sec

 

Posts: 976
Joined: 12/11/2004
From: Jackson, MS
Status: offline 		I would think a majority of the AI issue is based on how thorough the profiles in the playbook are.

_____________________________

Mapping Specialist

(in reply to Hubbard)
Post #: 3
RE: How good is the AI coaching? - 3/26/2008 7:48:40 PM   
David Winter

 

Posts: 5158
Joined: 11/24/2004
From: Vancouver, BC
Status: offline 		Actually there were a LOT of changes to the play calling AI.

But as 21sec pointed out, a large portion of the game AI can be adjusted via the play books. 

(in reply to 22sec)
Post #: 4
RE: How good is the AI coaching? - 3/26/2008 8:25:49 PM   
therhino

 

Posts: 844
Joined: 2/12/2008
Status: offline 		If the profiles are set right there is very good play calling. I have already noticed a few differences between 2.18 and 2.2. The AI seems much smarter.
therhino

(in reply to David Winter)
Post #: 5
RE: How good is the AI coaching? - 3/26/2008 8:29:43 PM   
micvik

 

Posts: 139
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		The AI coaches are only as good as the profile they are using. It will take a bit of time but we currently have the ability to make the AI very difficult and realistic. So the potential is there.

(in reply to Longstreet_slith)
Post #: 6
RE: How good is the AI coaching? - 3/26/2008 9:15:33 PM   
Marauders

 

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline 		The AI does things on its own if the gameplan profile is not set up well, but a good gameplan will go a long way to having a tougher time against the computer.

quote:

I played my first league game with 2.2, using default playbooks, cpu vs cpu. And I did not notice any change in the AI.


The gameplan profiles have not been updated for the default playbooks.  That is a project I am working on right now.  I have to ask, how tough do you want the computer to be?

(in reply to micvik)
Post #: 7
RE: How good is the AI coaching? - 3/26/2008 9:21:13 PM   
Longstreet_slith

 

Posts: 117
Joined: 8/25/2000
From: Iowa City, IA, USA
Status: offline 		I would want the AI to be as tough as you can make it -- I want a smart AI that really knows football and the appropriate plays to call depending on the situation. If it is behind and on its own 20 yard line and there is only 3 minutes to go in the game, calling running plays and/or not calling time outs is just stupid coaching.

-Longstreet

(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 8
RE: How good is the AI coaching? - 3/26/2008 11:26:19 PM   
playball335

 

Posts: 31
Joined: 2/9/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Longstreet

I would want the AI to be as tough as you can make it -- I want a smart AI that really knows football and the appropriate plays to call depending on the situation. If it is behind and on its own 20 yard line and there is only 3 minutes to go in the game, calling running plays and/or not calling time outs is just stupid coaching.

-Longstreet



I agree!!

(in reply to Longstreet_slith)
Post #: 9
RE: How good is the AI coaching? - 3/26/2008 11:54:50 PM   
BigSmooth

 

Posts: 252
Joined: 11/10/2005
Status: offline 		I played a league game today (computer vs computer) where the team that was behind went for it on 4th down in the 4th quarter. They did not make it and the team that was ahead hammered them for another TD. Sweet.

(in reply to playball335)
Post #: 10
RE: How good is the AI coaching? - 3/27/2008 12:30:07 AM   
quixian

 

Posts: 151
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline 		My .02...

Lost a close game in my one game that I completed coaching against the CPU last night with the stock 11 man 34 playbooks for both teams.  Would have won but for a few penalties and fumbles, but that happens.

While I can NOT yet vouch for the CPU intelligently using timeouts post 2.2 patching, the changes to the profiles SHOULD largely eliminate bad playcalling by the CPU in game.  Even with the limits of the prior profiles, I was able to cobble together some small profiles for 3rd and 4th downs and late game situations for the CPU that made the game far more challenging.  I can't even navigate the PDS (MaxFB's play designing interface) too well, and am able to easily put together profiles and situations that are realistic and keep games competitive.

Being a veteran of many, many videogame football titles, I can say that there is no other game that I have played that gets late game playcalling 100% right, 100% of the time.  See the forum posts at sites dedicated to Madden, FOF, 2nd and Ten, Bowl Bound, and Football Mogul if you don't believe me.  While I have not yet tinkered with the new profiles, I believe that the AI playcalling will be at least in the same ballpark (stadium?) as the aforementioned titles when it comes to situational playcalling.

I have quite a few things I'd like to see added to the game for 3.0 - not everything about Max FB is perfect by any means - but the plays and playcalling are not a major issue imo.  They have been quite solid for me, given that one either puts in the time to create profiles themselves or uses one created by one of the community's play designers.

< Message edited by quixian -- 3/27/2008 12:31:12 AM >

(in reply to BigSmooth)
Post #: 11
RE: How good is the AI coaching? - 3/27/2008 3:43:38 AM   
Marauders

 

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline 		I like a tough computer AI as well, as long as it doesn't cheat or go through keys like a NORAD computer.

quote:

If it is behind and on its own 20 yard line and there is only 3 minutes to go in the game, calling running plays and/or not calling time outs is just stupid coaching.


Some smart running plays, along with time management can work together, but I understand your point.  That is why the already detailed gameplan ability was upgraded for 2.2.


(in reply to quixian)
Post #: 12
RE: How good is the AI coaching? - 4/3/2008 5:49:40 AM   
Hubbard

 

Posts: 128
Joined: 3/4/2006
From: Atlanta, Georgia
Status: offline
quote:

Some smart running plays, along with time management can work together, but I understand your point. That is why the already detailed gameplan ability was upgraded for 2.2.


Yeah, but there is nothing you can "gameplan" to make a CPU team use its timeouts appropriately.

< Message edited by Hubbard -- 4/3/2008 5:51:48 AM >

(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 13
RE: How good is the AI coaching? - 4/16/2008 2:53:33 AM   
Marauders

 

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

Yeah, but there is nothing you can "gameplan" to make a CPU team use its timeouts appropriately.


FBPro had a time out selection for situations.  That's not bad to have, but if the AI is smart enough, it may not be a future need.

(in reply to Hubbard)
Post #: 14
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