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Political Sims/Games - 3/30/2008 2:31:39 PM   
marcusm

 

Posts: 776
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Göteborg/Sweden
Status: offline 		There seems to be no end to political discussions/arguments on the Net.

How come there are so few good games about politics then? There is Democracy (here) and Political Machine from Stardock, that's about it.

I always found the election process interesting and usually follow elections in most Western countries with interest (I like statistics). What I would like to see, is a political game that is also highly moddable so you can create political games adapted to different election systems and countries. I think I saw something a few years ago which did a pretty good job with German and British electoral systems. Forgot the name though.

I was very disappointed when that game simulating a power struggle in some no name Communist country failed. I had high hopes for it(even forgot the name).

Any thoughts on this.
Post #: 1
RE: Political Sims/Games - 3/31/2008 11:15:20 PM   
ezzler

 

Posts: 863
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		I think you mean Republic. It failed only because it was no good. Huge huge times for something to happen.. 3d world that was totally pointless , probably a good game that got a bit too much 'executive' input.
'Hey, you guys know what's hot right now..real time games .. and youre gonna need lens flare too..'
A game where you are trying to organise a coup, lead a resistance or just be the dictator is seriously needed, but then it has been for 20 years.
And don't even mention Tropico... 'Island sim city'

As regards a decent political game , that Usa election game [ president elect was it ? 1988] was probably the best.
democracy, i haven't tried.
Political machine .. hmm .. its ok, but like a mediocre sports sim you never feel that your decisions are doing much.

(in reply to marcusm)
Post #: 2
RE: Political Sims/Games - 3/31/2008 11:38:04 PM   
Adam Parker


Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline 		Try "Peacemaker" by Impact Games.

Good for a few solid play sessions.

Here

(in reply to marcusm)
Post #: 3
RE: Political Sims/Games - 4/1/2008 12:27:01 AM   
anarchyintheuk

 

Posts: 3921
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		There was a good game back in the age of 5.25'' floppies about holding the Soviet Union together.

(in reply to Adam Parker)
Post #: 4
RE: Political Sims/Games - 4/1/2008 1:03:05 AM   
Sarge


Posts: 2841
Joined: 3/1/2003
From: ask doggie
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marcusm

There seems to be no end to political discussions/arguments on the Net.

How come there are so few good games about politics then? There is Democracy (here) and Political Machine from Stardock, that's about it.

I always found the election process interesting and usually follow elections in most Western countries with interest (I like statistics). What I would like to see, is a political game that is also highly moddable so you can create political games adapted to different election systems and countries. I think I saw something a few years ago which did a pretty good job with German and British electoral systems. Forgot the name though.

I was very disappointed when that game simulating a power struggle in some no name Communist country failed. I had high hopes for it(even forgot the name).

Any thoughts on this.


1960: The Making of the President


I know it’s a board game, but if you can find a opponent you’ll have a blast.


_____________________________


(in reply to marcusm)
Post #: 5
RE: Political Sims/Games - 4/1/2008 5:08:16 AM   
BvB


Posts: 187
Joined: 10/7/2001
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Also from the 60s was a 3M bookshelf game, Mr President that is still around here somewhere and maybe is available on ebay now and then.  All ficticious candidates but good at learning about campaigning and electoral votes.  Plus already mentioned was the 1988 Apple game that I think was by SSI  Those are the only ones I ever dabbled with.  Bottom line it shows there is something someone could market if they did there research and came out with a playable system...

_____________________________

Enlisted during Nixon, retired during Clinton then went postal - joined the USPS, then retired from that during Obama.

(in reply to Sarge)
Post #: 6
RE: Political Sims/Games - 4/1/2008 5:37:32 AM   
Joram

 

Posts: 3198
Joined: 7/15/2005
Status: offline 		Hey, I enjoyed Republic.  I'm sure you can find it in a discount bin these days if you want to try it out. 

(in reply to BvB)
Post #: 7
RE: Political Sims/Games - 4/1/2008 5:56:08 AM   
cdbeck


Posts: 1374
Joined: 8/16/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		There is a nice and very indepth election sim that is relatively budget priced.

Here is the link: President Forever 2008

They also have a British, Canadian, and German version.

SoM



_____________________________

"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade

(in reply to Joram)
Post #: 8
RE: Political Sims/Games - 4/1/2008 6:08:44 AM   
SemperAugustus

 

Posts: 257
Joined: 1/9/2005
Status: offline
quote:

How come there are so few good games about politics then? There is Democracy (here) and Political Machine from Stardock, that's about it.


I liked Conflict when it came out. It did not take long to play either.

< Message edited by SemperAugustus -- 4/1/2008 6:15:09 AM >

(in reply to cdbeck)
Post #: 9
RE: Political Sims/Games - 4/1/2008 10:23:14 AM   
Adam Parker


Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Son_of_Montfort

There is a nice and very indepth election sim that is relatively budget priced.

Here is the link: President Forever 2008


Awesome post, thanks!

(in reply to cdbeck)
Post #: 10
RE: Political Sims/Games - 4/1/2008 5:49:11 PM   
marcusm

 

Posts: 776
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Göteborg/Sweden
Status: offline 		Thanks SoM it's the game I meant reagarding German Elections. I think
Matrixgames should consider putting it up for sale.

Also thanks for Republic the Revolution:

Alternate question. What made it a bad game(for those who didn't like it)? Was there
anything one could have done to improve it's successrate. I thought the idea of simulating
the street level politics was great, this is what many forget about elections. The hard ground work.

(in reply to Adam Parker)
Post #: 11
RE: Political Sims/Games - 4/2/2008 11:45:02 AM   
Adam Parker


Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marcusm

Thanks SoM...


I bought the sucker

The US "President Forever + Primaries" version!

Looks hot - full of features - but I'd love to get the game to run bigger on screen.

(in reply to marcusm)
Post #: 12
RE: Political Sims/Games - 4/2/2008 12:07:35 PM   
marcusm

 

Posts: 776
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Göteborg/Sweden
Status: offline 		So the Australian variant wasn't interesting ;).

Pity Sweden is a small country, would have liked a Swedish system. We have a fairly
exciting election system (when it comes to statistics fans like me).

(in reply to Adam Parker)
Post #: 13
RE: Political Sims/Games - 4/2/2008 4:53:05 PM   
cdbeck


Posts: 1374
Joined: 8/16/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker
The US "President Forever + Primaries" version!

Looks hot - full of features - but I'd love to get the game to run bigger on screen.


Please post your impressions here. I have the demo and have been vacillating back and forth about getting the full version. It has TONS of depth, but I'm just not sure how the long game will play out. I do like the idea of making my own candidate, is that easy to do?

SoM

_____________________________

"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade

(in reply to Adam Parker)
Post #: 14
RE: Political Sims/Games - 4/6/2008 3:59:13 AM   
cdbeck


Posts: 1374
Joined: 8/16/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		Adam,

Any thoughts on the new purchase? Would be interested to see how you feel about PF2008. Especially the candidate creation utility.

SoM


_____________________________

"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade

(in reply to cdbeck)
Post #: 15
RE: Political Sims/Games - 4/6/2008 3:36:40 PM   
orwell

 

Posts: 43
Joined: 11/11/2007
Status: offline 		Not sure which topic of Marcusm to post this in, but anyhow, it would seem a major failing in both business and political games is to simulate just how much of a impact 'impressions' have. A speech by Bush raised mortgage rates a quarter point overnight. The only way your gonna see that in a game though is by a event, likely a random event unless your following a precise timeline. Are there any decent solutions to either having the game or the player interact with government and business via 'speech' as such in an effective manner? The only thing that really comes to mind is, "you craft a speech about the popular issues of the day containing 'blah' 'blah' and 'economy'."

Same thing with taking international actions. A recent trade agreement between Vietnam and the Philipines over a 'guarantee' of rice supply. Apparantly the deal has so many loopholes that it appears to just be a face saving thing, but I've never seen anything like this in any sort of game where you can make diplomatic gestures that vary between being a solid iron agreement, being of a moderate agreement, and being pretty much just a show. Nor are there major repurcussions. One example that comes to mind is the US not defaulting on it's debt after the revolution earned some respect from the world for the new nation where many would have defaulted. Basically in games you can 'raise influence and spend a little cash' or sometimes you can 'send an insult'.

Then again the question of whether it's even worthwhile to simulate causes in any depth, when the effects are, essentially and in my mind painfully abstracted, the same. I've yet to see or hear of a game that respects cultural traditions beyond the most simplistic building blocks. The only game that comes to mind that even recognizes culture is CivIV in a crude fashion. Seems to me like going further in recognizing not only how different cultures can be, but modeling those differences and their cause/effects, would go along way towards creating a varied game.

[edit]Removed a bunch of trite that nobody will read even if they got to this point.

(in reply to cdbeck)
Post #: 16
RE: Political Sims/Games - 4/6/2008 3:57:45 PM   
Hidde

 

Posts: 81
Joined: 5/1/2005
Status: offline 		I remember trying Hidden Agenda some years ago. Fun but very difficult and I never get far before I failed miserably.

quote:

In Hidden Agenda, you are the new president of Chimerica (a fictive country in Central America). You have been chosen after the citizens overthrew the evil dictator Farsante. The game can be considered good educational material.

In the beginning, you have to face a group of journalists asking you what will be your main goals as a new president. You will have to choose wisely as you will be judged by History later. Chimerica is in a terrible situation, infant mortality is terribly high and a lot of people are living in poverty. This is where you come in!

First of all you appoint ministries, which is harder than it looks! Will you be a leftist president having ministries full of people from National Liberation, or will you rather pursue radical right policies? It’s all up to you. Remember, you can try to help people, but you can also be as cruel as dictator Farsante was! You also have to go around and meet people, you can be a death squad leader or a union leader, you will create your own policies, and every time you will find friends and enemies… Your goal is to keep the presidency as long as possible. Keep an eye on your enemies if they really hate you, they can start a “Coup d’Etat”!

As if all this wouldn’t be enough, USA is trying all the time to force you to do what he wants. So you have to be careful as they don’t care to help very much and if you defy him, he can be really a terrible opponent.

Ministers as well, will try all the time to do whatever they like, and you have to be careful about what they say. This is really a high game of politics and few words can easily turn the whole situation 180 degrees. You can check the impacts of your decisions by checking the statistics and several newspapers.

This may sound like a very difficult game, but it is fun to play and quite enjoyable though it may be hard in the beginning… After playing the game for a few times you’ll get into it.


Downloaded it from you know were. As I recall it wasn't hard to get running but I don't remember any details.

(in reply to orwell)
Post #: 17
RE: Political Sims/Games - 4/7/2008 1:19:56 AM   
ezzler

 

Posts: 863
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		Hidden Agenda was Great.
Too short of course and you cant control police or army etc.
Nethertheless one of if not the best political 'sims' ever done.

I managed a win just the once, leaving the country heading for better times.

A modern version with an economy , budget , and military would be beyond my dreams..
Anyone with an interest in politics follow Hidde and give it a go.

(in reply to Hidde)
Post #: 18
RE: Political Sims/Games - 4/10/2008 11:54:43 PM   
ird

 

Posts: 110
Joined: 1/5/2008
Status: offline 		I bought President Forever + Primaries as well as the British Edition this week. Excellent games, thanks for the recommendations. I've been playing the British one as it's the political system I understand - just getting started on the US version.

(in reply to cdbeck)
Post #: 19
RE: Political Sims/Games - 4/11/2008 12:10:31 AM   
marcusm

 

Posts: 776
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Göteborg/Sweden
Status: offline 		please post a review

(in reply to ird)
Post #: 20
RE: Political Sims/Games - 4/11/2008 12:32:51 AM   
PunkReaper


Posts: 1085
Joined: 8/23/2006
From: England
Status: offline 		British addition...now I'm interested.....where did you get it from?

(in reply to marcusm)
Post #: 21
RE: Political Sims/Games - 4/11/2008 12:43:07 AM   
marcusm

 

Posts: 776
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Göteborg/Sweden
Status: offline 		www.80soft.com

Only 10 euros.

(in reply to PunkReaper)
Post #: 22
RE: Political Sims/Games - 4/11/2008 12:57:42 AM   
Adam Parker


Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Son_of_Montfort

Adam,

Any thoughts on the new purchase? Would be interested to see how you feel about PF2008. Especially the candidate creation utility.


Apologies for the delay as life has intervened!

I have dabbled with the game briefly and can post the following observations:

1. The game looks good and offers the potential for strategic depth. Just about every candidate and potential candidate you can think of is there on both sides and the ability to run through the Primaries is a great attraction. Want to test out Al Gore? You can chose him to run.

2. Though the game looks pretty and the mouse interface is very responsive, the game seems to only play in 800 x 600 mode. So if your resolution is anything greater, the game will sit in a small unsizable window on the desktop. If anyone knows of a solution here please let me know.

3. The rule book though good (and I still have to exhaust it) is a Help File and not a Word doc or PDF which makes printing difficult.

4. It's taken me a week to gain access to the 80Soft forums. Registering is easy but before you can post you need admin approval. Kinda strange.

As for the UK and Aussie government versions of the game, if you buy "President Forever + Primaries 2008" you get the tantilzing option to buy these versions at something like $7 each too. I bought the "Campaigns Forever" extension instead, for $10. It supposedly lets you extend the game by DYO any way you desire.

That's it for now. Hopefully more soon.

(in reply to cdbeck)
Post #: 23
RE: Political Sims/Games - 4/11/2008 1:01:28 AM   
marcusm

 

Posts: 776
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Göteborg/Sweden
Status: offline 		Almost sounds like the Capitalism(by Trevor Chan) of Political sims.

So you can mod it for almost any political system? Would like to do something for Sweden in that case.

Where is this forum btw? Couldn't find it. I can almost understand the restrictions on posting. Politics tends to bring forth the worst trolling.

< Message edited by marcusm -- 4/11/2008 1:04:34 AM >

(in reply to Adam Parker)
Post #: 24
RE: Political Sims/Games - 4/11/2008 1:50:49 AM   
cdbeck


Posts: 1374
Joined: 8/16/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		The only problem I had with the PF2008 + Primaries demo is that I couldn't really tell how my actions were effecting my popularity (I was playing as Barrack Obama in the US demo). Ads seems to be the most effective thing to use (and footsoldiers). It also seems like there is never enough energy to do everything you need to do and I would love to see how the computer plays its turns.

Another thing I don't really like about the PF2008 demo is that is automatically sets up the country with Hillary Clinton having a HUGE advantage over the other democratic primaries candidates. This really wasn't the case when the primaries began, and isn't really the case now.

Stardock is also coming out with its Political Machine 2008, which is more cartoony, 3d graphics, and fast-paced, but much less detailed than PF2008. I have the old version, and I have to admit that is is a bit too simplistic to me. Anyway here is the link to the site (preorder gets you into beta).

Political Machine 2008


_____________________________

"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade

(in reply to marcusm)
Post #: 25
RE: Political Sims/Games - 4/11/2008 2:26:05 AM   
marcusm

 

Posts: 776
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Göteborg/Sweden
Status: offline 		Well if you can edit the scenarios I guess you can change those parameters as well.
Maybe this scenario was made before the real balance were known?

(in reply to cdbeck)
Post #: 26
RE: Political Sims/Games - 4/11/2008 3:03:36 PM   
Adam Parker


Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marcusm

So you can mod it for almost any political system? Would like to do something for Sweden in that case.


If you also buy "Campaigns Forever" you can set up any political situation and map you wish. This is the scenario creation tool the designers used. I believe someone has actually made a Roman era campaign!

For the forums go here

Btw thanks SoM for the "Political Machine" heads up - looks like they're trying to release for mid June. I'm very interested.

PS: I gave the Matrix "Democracy" demo a whirl and as a reviewer pointed out, it is sadly full of typos and punctuational glitches. Shame.

< Message edited by Adam Parker -- 4/11/2008 3:08:04 PM >

(in reply to marcusm)
Post #: 27
RE: Political Sims/Games - 4/11/2008 3:22:18 PM   
marcusm

 

Posts: 776
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Göteborg/Sweden
Status: offline 		Well I am more interested in the election process itself rather than being the megalomaniac ;). So these are more my type of games. I am a statistics fan(weird I know).

As for editing. Do you have to create tha map yourself? Making Sweden wont be easy, we have a very complicated system with 3 levels of elections being done simulatenously. Local councils, districts and parliament. Most countries have these elections divided.

The mandate process could be tricky to create.

(in reply to Adam Parker)
Post #: 28
RE: Political Sims/Games - 4/11/2008 4:47:12 PM   
cdbeck


Posts: 1374
Joined: 8/16/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		That is probably why 80Soft didn't make a Sweden version. 

I may have to pick up Prez forever, to fill that political gap. First I am going to try to fully understand the demo and how the system works, though.

SoM


_____________________________

"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade

(in reply to marcusm)
Post #: 29
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