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Is this an INSANE idea for April 1943? No Rebel Canoes... - 4/9/2008 6:23:15 PM

John 3rd

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To start with, this is a high level strategic thought for April 1943 as the Japanese in a Big B 1.4 Mod game. Anyone who has been reading Dan Roper and I's AAR (Forlorn Hopes) know that I have had a terrific run as the Japanese player. Darn near took all of Australia but am in a 'situation' within Burma. I am attaching a recent screenshot.

If one looks at the map, you see that I am pinned into Rangoon by 28 units: 2 Brit Inf Div, some Brit Artie, and a heck of a lot of Chinese/Indian troops. To the east sit 9 more units blocking Moulmein from aiding Rangoon. Spread throughout Meiktila, Magwe, Mandalay, etc... are at least 31 more units. This makes for a total of 68 units within Burma proper.

The problem Dan has is that I control the air and sea around Rangoon and Moulmein. Rangoon is in no danger of falling as its Forts are rising, troops have been reinforced, and supply is excellent. There are 3 1/2 50-60% strength Japanese Inf Div in Moulmein and they are recovering their strength fairly rapidly. Put simply Dan cannot take Rangoon but cannot let off without me coming after him.

Never one to be cautious and/or defensive-minded, I am thinking about something that might be crazy in any other situation. I am contemplating a strategic assault upon his rear in India. My thoughts are to land somewhere between Diamond Harbor and Madras and then drive east taking everything I can. To do this let me tell you what I have available for troops:

1 Army HQ
3 Full Strength Infantry Divisions (2 from Australia with XP at 98)
2 Full Strength Tank Divisions
1 Cavalry Regiment
1 Engineering Regiment
2 Aviation Regiments

Both Parachute Regiments

This would be a combined force of nearly 3000 assault points...

I don't know India well enough to know if this force--figuring the massive forward deployment that Dan has done--would be able to accomplish much. I don't contemplate taking India but I thought I could force him to pull back and my troops could raise merry Hell throughout India until he tries to contain them...

Is this a crazy idea? If yes, then toss out your thoughts! If no, then help me with some planning...

Arrrgggg...some some reason the program is telling me that I cannot upload the screenshot because it is too large. I will post this and then pull the screenshot and add it on another posting.

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RE: Is this an INSANE idea for April 1943? No Rebel Ca... - 4/9/2008 6:25:58 PM

John 3rd

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RE: Is this an INSANE idea for April 1943? No Rebel Ca... - 4/9/2008 6:34:30 PM

USSAmerica

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John, you would have to be willing to throw away any troops you land in India, once they have done their damage. Once you are convinced that you are willing to lose them, it would be a bonus to get any of them evacuated once their mission is finished, if you still control the air and sea in the region.

As far as what they could accomplish, and what they would be facing, I really can't say. I've not yet played far enough into the war to know what the Allied player has at his disposal in 1Q '43. Dan sure seems to have a lot of troops in Bruma, though.

I would honestly have to say this is an INSANE idea. When has that ever stopped you?

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RE: Is this an INSANE idea for April 1943? No Rebel Ca... - 4/9/2008 6:34:57 PM

rtrapasso

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Any idea what is in Calcutta??

It is an urban hex, so maybe 1.5 divisions could probably stop an offensive (i am guessing)... if it were me, it would surely be at level 9 forts by now... you might be able to run "north" or "west" (toward Madras - another city hex, i think), however... this would probably mean your supply lines are vulnerable, though.

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RE: Is this an INSANE idea for April 1943? No Rebel Ca... - 4/9/2008 6:37:01 PM

John 3rd

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India

Attachment (1)

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RE: Is this an INSANE idea for April 1943? No Rebel Ca... - 4/9/2008 6:40:19 PM

John 3rd

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Mike--You just nearly made me spew my tea with your last comment!

I could do a quick recon of the various towns throughout that area and see how many troops are spread throughout. If I did it now and then don't do anymore until closer to a landing, Dan might not suspect...

Going west IS an interesting thought! Madras could be entertaining...

This could be a Nathaniel Bedford Forrest race through India destroying all that I can before running like Hell to survive!

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RE: Is this an INSANE idea for April 1943? No Rebel Ca... - 4/9/2008 6:41:04 PM

rtrapasso

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Don't think Cuttack is a sea-hex (it isn't in CHS, but the map looks slightly different)... you can still land there, i guess (depending on house rules) but there might not be a port...

Again, if they have a lot of forts, even a base force will give any paras a hard time.

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RE: Is this an INSANE idea for April 1943? No Rebel Ca... - 4/9/2008 6:42:41 PM

Gem35

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He probably either has or will get some good reinforcements from karachi . It would be a gamble but it may work if you can sneak by and pull it off.

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RE: Is this an INSANE idea for April 1943? No Rebel Ca... - 4/9/2008 6:42:45 PM

rtrapasso

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quote:

Madras could be entertaining...

in CHS, it is also a city hex, iirc... could be tough if there are any signficant forces around.

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RE: Is this an INSANE idea for April 1943? No Rebel Ca... - 4/9/2008 6:46:29 PM

AcePylut

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What about landing at Chittagong, then moving North to cut off all the allied troops in Burma from their sources of supply?

Or, land at Cuttack, then move the guys north to Rangpur to try and cut off supplies to the troops in Burma?

What do you plan to accomplish by pushing across India? Insane? It's only insane if you aren't going to gain anything by it. Why throw away 3k AV, when a different plan of "throwing away" that 3k AV might possibly lead to you bagging 30 Allied LCU's?

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RE: Is this an INSANE idea for April 1943? No Rebel Ca... - 4/9/2008 6:58:33 PM

Jzanes

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I also vote for landing at Chittagong instead. Without a port in Burma, the allied supply situation must be tenuous at best. Use everything you have (KB, naval bombardment, and air forces) to suppress the airfields from Diamond Harbor to Akyab before you land. If it's lightly held, a paradrop at Rangpur (or even Dacca) will help to isolate the battlefield.
I think the invasion you are considering will stall out and slowly get pounded by allied LBA before you grab anything important.

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RE: Is this an INSANE idea for April 1943? No Rebel Ca... - 4/9/2008 7:01:24 PM

John 3rd

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I just a turn in from Dan and will update the screenshot as well as order recon. Wait a bit and I will add more information...

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RE: Is this an INSANE idea for April 1943? No Rebel Ca... - 4/9/2008 8:50:50 PM

John 3rd

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Have started recon over his bases. So far I see that Calcutta has 3 units and Diamond Harbor has 2. Will see more next turn...

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RE: Is this an INSANE idea for April 1943? No Rebel Ca... - 4/9/2008 9:30:14 PM

tlkiilerich

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I�ve done 2 India invasions using CHS so far, but those have always been in February or no later than Marts 42. First of I would rule out both Calcutta and Madras as landing areas, I would if possible steer clear of these areas altogether. I�ve had the Madras baseforce by itself hold of a DIV attack and this was a fully prepped DIV supported by a HQ, arty and an additional regiment.

Chittagong has a few things going for it, it�s closest to a friendly port, it can be long range CAP�ed. I would still be careful landing here, first of there�s a decent baseforce and second and most important in my book, it�s in range of way to many and to big airfields. I know that his air force might have been bloodied earlier, but it should still be able to field a decent amount of TB�s. And even with a lousy fighter escort they will get through.

Out of the other two options I would land at Vizagapatam, mostly because it�s far away from any supporting air fields, or at least out of TB range. And as soon as you land India is open for your armour to blitzkrieg through.

Just my two cent.

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RE: Is this an INSANE idea for April 1943? No Rebel Ca... - 4/9/2008 10:02:47 PM

John 3rd

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OK. After 3 turns of Recon, this is what I see:

Calcutta 3 units--9,000 Troops
Diamond Harbor 2 units--1,440 Troops
Chittagong 2 Units--4,500 Troops
Cox's Bizarre 2 Units--5,000 Troops

Chittagong could be feasible. There does not appear to be much in the area...

I THINK most of his airpower is accounted for within Burma and China.

Available Naval Forces for Operation:

6 CVE (136 planes)
2 BB
3 CL
29 DD

Hmmm....

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RE: Is this an INSANE idea for April 1943? No Rebel Ca... - 4/9/2008 10:18:52 PM

AcePylut

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Here's a thought... dual landings. One at Chittagong, one at Diamond Harbor. One a "diversion", the other not.

Diamond Harbor - 2 units and airplanes. So one of them is a base force.
Chittagong - This is "on the railway" behind the Imphal line.

Land and sacrifice a unit or two at Diamon Harbor to take pressure off a landing and "behind the back" drive from Chittagong.

If you land at Diamond Harbor, and threaten or take it over.... the location and port capabilities of this base REQUIRES the allies to counter it as soon as possible, as often as possible, lest you "build up" a base right by calcutta. This is good. This is what you want. You want the allies to expend most or their time trying to kick these guys out of Diamond Harbor....

so that your drive behind Imphal doesn't soak up the full brunt of the allied forces.

Chittagong may appear to be a "less strategic" location than Diamond Harbor... i.e. the opponent may think that Diamond Harbor is the precursor to an attack on Calcultta, and at the same time "just think" that the Chittagong attack as "just another attack at a base in Burma" and dismiss it.

Either way, you get a nice size port one step from Calcutta, or a nice size force behind the Imphal line.

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RE: Is this an INSANE idea for April 1943? No Rebel Ca... - 4/9/2008 10:23:16 PM

Mike Solli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
Available Naval Forces for Operation:

6 CVE (136 planes)
2 BB
3 CL
29 DD

That's not a lot of naval force to protect CVEs. What's the status of the RN?

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RE: Is this an INSANE idea for April 1943? No Rebel Ca... - 4/9/2008 11:00:22 PM

John 3rd

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There are 3 RN CVs prowling around. Dan has been quite relauctant to use them. He just took--for the 3rd month in a row--a huge 2600 PP hit for not pulling RN ships out of the Indian Ocean.

I have Junyo/Hiyo and 2 CVL upgrading in Japan right now. I could pull them and add their combat power to an attack. They would have another BB, 3 CA, 2 CL, and a few DD swith them.

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RE: Is this an INSANE idea for April 1943? No Rebel Ca... - 4/9/2008 11:39:12 PM

Feinder

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Well, you can count on one of each of those units to be the base force. He's probably split a depleted Indian Div into regiments, and they're acting as Inf garrisons on top the few squads in the BFs. My guess is, the 3rd unit in Calcutta is either an air HQ or SEAC. Between those 4 cities, he's got -maybe- a Div-and-a-half (more likely just a Div).

-F-

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RE: Is this an INSANE idea for April 1943? No Rebel Ca... - 4/10/2008 12:21:47 AM

String

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CV support is more of a problem here it seems..

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RE: Is this an INSANE idea for April 1943? No Rebel Ca... - 4/10/2008 1:07:15 AM

John 3rd

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Dan and I have really plowed through the turns today. I just our 6th one of the day to him. It is nice being home alone for 8 hours!

Here is what I have available for the operation:

Navy
Airpower: 147 Zero/58 DB/99 TB = 304 Planes
CarDiv Junyo/Hiyo 102 Planes (34Z/34DB/34TB)
CarDiv Shoho/Zuiho 60 Planes (36Z/24TB)
CarDiv Hosho/Kaiyo/Unyo 64 Planes (41Z/23TB)
CarDiv Taiyo/Chuyo/??? 81 Planes (36Z/24DB/18TB)

3 BB (Mutsu/Nagato/Yamato)

3 CA, 4 CL, 34 DD and 11 SS

LBA
400 Fighters (Tony/Tojo/Zero) all skill 70+
200 Bombers (Lily/Helen-Sally/Betty)

Ground Forces
I have the same troops that mentioned earlier in the discussion.

Observation
I did recon for 4 straight days and saw NOTHING in Cuttack...

Just shifted my recon to Viza... and Madras to keep him thinking.

Thoughts
Landing Sites:
1. The most practical landing would be at Chittagong because it is close for CAP and retreat once the operation plays out.
2. IF Cuttack isn't defended then THAT is perfect. Could grab it with my Paras and then land without opposition. Need to check the Port/AF size.
3. Viza is good because there are no real close supporting AF as mentioned above. Would take longer to get there with the ships though.

I feel like this is Operation Torch with 3 landing sites.

What do people think? Chittagong, Cuttack, or Viza?? Good and bad points will not bother me. I'll post a current screenshot of the area in just a few minutes...

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RE: Is this an INSANE idea for April 1943? No Rebel Ca... - 4/10/2008 1:17:39 AM

Gem35

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Dan and I have really plowed through the turns today.� I just our 6th one of the day to him.� It is nice being home alone for 8 hours!

Here is what I have available for the operation:

Navy
Airpower:� 147 Zero/58 DB/99 TB = 304 Planes
CarDiv� Junyo/Hiyo� 102 Planes (34Z/34DB/34TB)
CarDiv� Shoho/Zuiho� 60 Planes (36Z/24TB)
CarDiv� Hosho/Kaiyo/Unyo� 64 Planes� (41Z/23TB)
CarDiv� Taiyo/Chuyo/???� 81 Planes� (36Z/24DB/18TB)

3 BB (Mutsu/Nagato/Yamato)

3 CA, 4 CL, 34 DD and 11 SS

LBA
400 Fighters (Tony/Tojo/Zero) all skill 70+
200 Bombers (Lily/Helen-Sally/Betty)

Ground Forces
I have the same troops that mentioned earlier in the discussion.

Observation
I did recon for 4 straight days and saw NOTHING in Cuttack...

Just shifted my recon to Viza... and Madras to keep him thinking.

Thoughts
Landing Sites:
1.� The most practical landing would be at Chittagong because it is close for CAP and retreat once the operation plays out.
2.� IF Cuttack isn't defended then THAT is perfect.� Could grab it with my Paras and then land without opposition.� Need to check the Port/AF size.
3.� Viza is good because there are no real close supporting AF as mentioned above.� Would take longer to get there with the ships though.

I feel like this is Operation Torch with 3 landing sites.�

What do people think?� Chittagong, Cuttack, or Viza??� Good and bad points will not bother me.� I'll post a current screenshot of the area in just a few minutes...

I wish you all the luck John, but smells like a trap to me. Where are all of his LBA?

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RE: Is this an INSANE idea for April 1943? No Rebel Ca... - 4/10/2008 1:24:31 AM

John 3rd

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WHY do I keep getting a 'file too large' note for uploading a screenshot?

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RE: Is this an INSANE idea for April 1943? No Rebel Ca... - 4/10/2008 1:26:14 AM

Gem35

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

WHY do I keep getting a 'file too large' note for uploading a screenshot?

save it in jpg format it is alot smaller , perhaps you are exceding the site's limit.

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RE: Is this an INSANE idea for April 1943? No Rebel Ca... - 4/10/2008 1:27:09 AM

John 3rd

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I have been constantly smacking it down.

He probably has 2-300 fighters and a similar amount of bombers in Burma. He has about half that in China. Don't know what an Allied Player SHOULD have at this point over there...

I have maintained aerial superiority over Rangoon and Moulmein with about 400 fighters.

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RE: Is this an INSANE idea for April 1943? No Rebel Ca... - 4/10/2008 1:29:16 AM

John 3rd

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It is jpeg and STILL states that it is too large.

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RE: Is this an INSANE idea for April 1943? No Rebel Ca... - 4/10/2008 1:31:18 AM

rtrapasso

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

It is jpeg and STILL states that it is too large.

If you can, try reducing the quality of the jpg (if your software allows) - it can easily double the bytes if it is high quality.

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RE: Is this an INSANE idea for April 1943? No Rebel Ca... - 4/10/2008 1:36:04 AM

Gem35

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Maybe it's a sign to call off the attack!

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RE: Is this an INSANE idea for April 1943? No Rebel Ca... - 4/10/2008 3:03:53 AM

John 3rd

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It COULD be an omen...

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RE: Is this an INSANE idea for April 1943? No Rebel Ca... - 4/10/2008 7:51:47 AM

JeffroK

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I have been constantly smacking it down.�

He probably has 2-300 fighters and a similar amount of�bombers in Burma.� He has about half that in China.� Don't know what an Allied Player SHOULD have at this point over there...

I have maintained aerial superiority over Rangoon and Moulmein with about 400 fighters.

It only takes 1 day to re-base these, as soon as he has an inkling of your plan he should be in position (one positive of 2-3 landings would be to minimize this) In addition to the RN he could have 4-500 aircraft in positon to counter your approach.

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