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how many bombs to sink a battleship

 
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how many bombs to sink a battleship - 4/23/2008 6:34:19 PM   
jleinawe


Posts: 12
Joined: 7/6/2004
Status: offline 		My carrier task groups (two groups, two carriers each) caught the Nagato and Fuso without air support near Shortland. Each one has been pummeled with 40+ 1000 pound bombs plus the Fuso has taken 3 torpedo hits. Yet, they are limping away... sigh

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RE: how many bombs to sink a battleship - 4/23/2008 6:43:40 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		If you're playing stock, they can take lots and lots.  The 3 torps may do the Fuso in.

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RE: how many bombs to sink a battleship - 4/23/2008 7:08:29 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline 		One can do it, if you get a magazine hit.

On the other hand, you can put 100 bombs into one at a big port and it won't sink.

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Post #: 3
RE: how many bombs to sink a battleship - 4/23/2008 8:17:18 PM   
moses

 

Posts: 2252
Joined: 7/7/2002
Status: offline 		In my game vs. John III (stock) 2 of my BB's got caught 5 hexes from his full KB. As a result they were pummeled with large numbers of 500 lb bombs but no torpedoes.

For the next two days as I tried to flee and he tried to find me, his carriers ended up exactly 5 hexes away for each days attacks. I lost count of the number of hit's but it must have been over a hundred hits on each of my 2 BB's.

After three days of attacks he finally pulled back. He was probably running out of sorties and I'm sure worried that my carriers might show up while he had lots of damaged planes and tired pilots.

Once the fires went out I think I had in the range of 30/40 points of system damage on each ship. They were a long way from port. (As I recall it was east of Numea and they had to run all the way to PH.) But they easily made it back for repairs.

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Post #: 4
RE: how many bombs to sink a battleship - 4/23/2008 8:26:32 PM   
herwin

 

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lein

My carrier task groups (two groups, two carriers each) caught the Nagato and Fuso without air support near Shortland. Each one has been pummeled with 40+ 1000 pound bombs plus the Fuso has taken 3 torpedo hits. Yet, they are limping away... sigh




Expected number of 1000-lb AP hits required to sink them was about ten. Expected number of torpedo hits--four or five.

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(in reply to jleinawe)
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RE: how many bombs to sink a battleship - 4/23/2008 9:49:05 PM   
engineer

 

Posts: 590
Joined: 9/8/2006
Status: offline 		Yamato and Haruna (under AI) tried to stop the invasion of Tarawa.  My carriers caught them in the Marshalls and 10+ bomb hits on Haruna and 20+ bomb hits on Yamato. None penetrated, but Yamato caught 3 torpedos, too.  They put into Maleolop and the carriers pursued, putting more bomb hits on them.  Reports were coming back as heavy damage.  I had some battlewagons handy for gunfire support on the invasion, so I sent them in to bombard Maleolop after rearming at Baker.  Haruna sank the following day, but Yamato took over a week to founder (and I was sending in B-24's at low altitude to load up some more 500 lb hits).  So fire/flotation cumulative damage was the immediate cause of sinking.  At the end, when I looked for the "fatal blow" in the "Ships Sunk" list, 16" gunfire from my own battleships was given credit for the kills. 

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RE: how many bombs to sink a battleship - 4/23/2008 10:05:42 PM   
saj42


Posts: 1125
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Somerset, England
Status: offline 		You can get some clues from the combat replay.
The 1000lb GP bomb hits, if only deck and belt armour hits, will add a few system and fire pts of damage. IF you see penetrating hits (unlikely IMHO) then with enough it will put them in danger of sinking. The torp hits will have sealed the fate of Fuso - but may take a day or two to succomb.

(in reply to jleinawe)
Post #: 7
RE: how many bombs to sink a battleship - 4/23/2008 11:14:17 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline 		There is an annoying (really,really annoying!!!!!!) saying in cooking that "you must cook it till it's done"........Whenever the hell that is!

In this game , we might say "you must bomb it till it sinks!". And it is very difficult to sink a BB  in a big harbor. In my game with Onime I kept the KB bombing PH for more than two weeks. And nothing sank! Not even DD's,CA's or even AK's. But according to Onime , those ships were all but sunk. 99's across the board. We figured out that the ships had apparently sunk in shallow water (as actually happed at PH).

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RE: how many bombs to sink a battleship - 4/24/2008 4:19:16 AM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		In game terms, I don't think the 1000# GP bombs penetrate even the deck armor of any IJN BB.  In which case, the answer to your question, "How many..." would be...

"All of them."

If your 4e bombers use 1000# AP, those should penetrate.  But I don't think Dauntlesses carry 1000# AP (not positive tho).

But if you're trying to bomb a hulk in port, it's going to be very difficult to sink anything that big with bombs.  The (relatively) small float damage will likely be repaired to quickly if your target is already disbanded in port.  The mag hit will solve your problem, but in all likelihood, you're gonna end up dropping a LOT of bombs for a LONG time.

-F-

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RE: how many bombs to sink a battleship - 4/24/2008 9:35:14 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

In game terms, I don't think the 1000# GP bombs penetrate even the deck armor of any IJN BB.  In which case, the answer to your question, "How many..." would be...

"All of them."

If your 4e bombers use 1000# AP, those should penetrate.  But I don't think Dauntlesses carry 1000# AP (not positive tho).

But if you're trying to bomb a hulk in port, it's going to be very difficult to sink anything that big with bombs.  The (relatively) small float damage will likely be repaired to quickly if your target is already disbanded in port.  The mag hit will solve your problem, but in all likelihood, you're gonna end up dropping a LOT of bombs for a LONG time.

-F-



hasn´t there just recently been a thread about SBDs dropping AP bombs?

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RE: how many bombs to sink a battleship - 4/24/2008 12:22:35 PM   
tabpub


Posts: 1019
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: The Greater Chicagoland Area
Status: offline 		2000 lb GP doesn't do anything either....even to the older ones, like ISE/HYUGA....

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Post #: 11
RE: how many bombs to sink a battleship - 4/24/2008 12:47:38 PM   
Historiker


Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline 		They DO damage




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 12
RE: how many bombs to sink a battleship - 4/24/2008 4:43:14 PM   
Charbroiled


Posts: 1181
Joined: 10/15/2004
From: Oregon
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

....the answer to your question, "How many..." would be...

"All of them."



I disagree. The answer is "1". The other 10,000 bomb hits are just preparatory work for the final hit.

(in reply to Feinder)
Post #: 13
RE: how many bombs to sink a battleship - 4/24/2008 7:13:33 PM   
jleinawe


Posts: 12
Joined: 7/6/2004
Status: offline 		Another day of bombings (500lb bombs this time) and the Fuso is sunk, woohoo.

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Post #: 14
RE: how many bombs to sink a battleship - 4/27/2008 4:10:22 AM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		In real life bombs seldom or never sank battleships...unless they were really really big!

1. The Fritz-X radio guided bomb sent the Italian battleship Roma to the bottom with a mag explosion.
2. Warspite was also sent limping back from Italy after taking a huge RC bomb, barely survived.
3. The Arizona suffered a magazine hit by a large 800kg? AP bomb which saw the end of her.
4. The Tirpitz was bombed and bombed until the British got tired and finally turned her turtle using tallboy bombs.
5. Gneisenau and Scharnhorst were bombed in ports for years. The only real damage was caused when Genisenau was hit
while refitting her bows - did a big blunder by not removing ammo from the forward magazines which caused severe damage.

In real life superficial damage could be repaired relatively quickly, within a month or so.
In WitP 30 superficial sys points of damage to the Yamato may very well take close to 6 months or more to repair.

Guess there is a pay off between damage caused and time required to fix it in WitP compared to RL.

Here's an interesting link: Gneisenau reconstruction

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RE: how many bombs to sink a battleship - 4/27/2008 6:04:44 AM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline 		Marat was sunk by a 1000kg bomb...

Ise succumbed in port to accumulated damage - last 2 attacks (according to Combined Fleets):
"24 July 1945: The Final Destruction of the Imperial Japanese Navy:
Ondo Seto. At 0615 about 30 aircraft from Vice Admiral (later Admiral) John S. McCain's (former CO of RANGER, CV-4) Task Force 38 attack ISE. Bombs hit the starboard bow flight deck, main deck and No. 3 turret. About noon, 30 more carrier-based aircraft attack and score a direct hit on the bridge. Captain Mutaguchi and other bridge personnel are killed. AA gunnery officer LtCdr Morooka Isamu is appointed as acting CO. Mutaguchi is promoted to Rear Admiral posthumously.

During the day's attacks, ISE suffers five direct hits and numerous near-misses. About 50 crewmen are killed and many others wounded. ISE settles by the bow and takes on water. Work begins to pump out her spaces.

27 July 1945:
After three days of pumping ISE is restored to an even keel. It is planned to tow ISE to drydock.

28 July 1945:
Ondo Seto. ISE is attacked by aircraft from Task Force 38's USS TICONDEROGA (CV-14), LEXINGTON (CV-16) and the HANCOCK (CV-17). ISE is hit by five 1,000-lb bombs dropped by F4U's from the HANCOCK's Air Group 6. During the day, ISE suffers 11 or more direct hits and many more near misses from other carrier-based aircraft. At 1400, 18 USAAF B-24 "Liberators" from Okinawa also bomb ISE, but they score no hits.

ISE founders with a 15 degree list to starboard and sinks by the bow in shallow water at 34-15N, 132-31E. At 1800, all attempts to salvage ISE are abandoned. Some of her AA guns are removed and added to nearby AA batteries. "

Similarly, Hyuga was sunk in port - by direct hits and near misses:
"24 July 1945:
At Nasake-jima, south of Kure. From 0915 to 1630, about 200 aircraft of Vice Admiral (later Admiral) John S. McCain's Task Force 38's USS ESSEX (CV-9), TICONDEROGA (CV-14), RANDOLPH (CV-15), HANCOCK (CV-19), MONTEREY (CVL-26) and BATAAN (CVL-29) attack the Kure area. About 50 aircraft including SB2C "Helldiver" dive-bombers of TICONDEROGA's Air Group 87 and other groups attack the HYUGA. Ten bomb hits and many near misses open the HYUGA's seams and she takes on tons of water. One of the direct hits blows the anchor deck apart. Three others hit the bridge and demolish the right side of the conning tower. Rear Admiral (Vice Admiral posthumously) Kusakawa is killed on the bridge.

Sunk: The HYUGA's crew runs the ship aground in shallow waters at 34-10N, 132-33E. "

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RE: how many bombs to sink a battleship - 4/27/2008 6:09:25 AM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline 		Similarly Haruna went down in port from multiple bomb hits:

"24 July 1945: The Final Destruction of the Imperial Japanese Navy:
Aircraft from Vice Admiral (later Admiral) John S. "Slew" McCain's (former CO of RANGER, CV-4)Task Force 38 attack Kure. HARUNA is hit by one bomb portside aft which causes light damage. In their last major action, 343rd NAG "George" fighters attack the retiring American carrier planes over the Bungo Suido and claim 19 aircraft shot down against four losses.

28 July 1945:
At Kure. From 0800 to 1700, HARUNA is attacked again by the USS WASP's (CV-18) Air Group 86, SHANGRI-LA (CV-38) and other aircraft from Task Force 38. She receives many hits and near misses. At 1300, she is attacked but not hit by over 70 USAAF B-24's of the 7th AF's 11th Bomb Group and other groups based at Yontan Air Base, Okinawa.

At 1615, HARUNA comes under a final heavy attack, and is holed portside. This causes a list that brings the gash inflicted on 24 July under water. HARUNA takes on tons of water and sinks in shallow water next to a pier at 34-15N, 132-29E. In the two days of attacks, HARUNA receives nine bomb hits and 65 officers and men are lost."

Of course, if this had been in PH in 1941, the ships might have been salvaged...

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RE: how many bombs to sink a battleship - 4/27/2008 2:29:45 PM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		Yes forgot about poor old Marat, she was launched all the way back in 1911.

She was sunk by Rudel in September 1941 in Kronstadt - Leningrad, when Rudel managed to put a 1000 kg bomb into her bow.
Still, the wrecked Marat was used in action as a floating battery for the remainder of the siege of Leningrad.
She was ultimately raised in 1950 and renamed as Volkhov, and used as a training ship until finally scrapped in 1952.

Was a bit unsure whether the remains of the Jap battle fleet should be counted. Sounds like they were mostly ripped open by bombs and near hits - guess the ports were to shallow to use torpedoes. Old ships were very vulnerable to near misses and concussion damage. Still not so sure that efficient damage control was exercised to save them. It was all but impossible to move them (enemy subs, lack of fuel.

As far as I can see only Roma was sunk outright by bombs when at sea - mag explosion.
The rest were wrecked to various degrees in when at anchor in port, so WitP got it partially right:
Unless a critical hit is scored it would take lots of bomb hits to sink a battleship.

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