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RE: Small Ship, Big War

 
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RE: Small Ship, Big War - 4/22/2008 2:46:24 PM   
Admiral DadMan


Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline 		Ohhhhh....
I get a baaaaad feeling about this....

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Post #: 2671
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 4/22/2008 2:52:49 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Oh dear, the captain is going to be taking a shower right when the torpedo hits...

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Post #: 2672
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 4/23/2008 3:42:48 AM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16842
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline 		Thats just CF trying to explain where the 2 system damage came from.

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Post #: 2673
RE: Small Ship, Big War - Water, Water Everywhere - 4/23/2008 5:22:40 AM   
Cuttlefish

 

Posts: 2454
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline 		January 13, 1944

Location: 105 miles southwest of Marcus
Course: North
Attached to: TF 9
Mission: Surface Combat
System Damage: 2
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 289

Orders: Escort Yamato back to Japan

---

Water has more importance to a destroyer than whether or not the captain gets his shower, of course. The crew needs water to drink. Ideally they also need water to bathe, but this swiftly becomes a forgotten luxury if supplies run tight. The fresh water supply can be threatened by different sorts of contamination; by salt water, by fuel oil, by sewage. The first two kinds of contamination are easily detected, but if disease enters the water supply it can go undetected and spread very quickly. That a warship whose crew is stricken with a waterborne gastrointestinal disease does not perform at full efficiency is an understatement.

Hibiki’s three oil-fired boilers produce steam, and steam requires water. The quality of this water is very important. The more impure the water the faster scaling will occur in the boilers and deposits accrue in the steam lines. Scaling can rob a boiler of efficiency and the ship of speed. Mineral deposits can cause uneven heating in the steam lines that can, at worst, cause the lines to burst. Some water that is rejected for the boilers is still good enough to go into the crew’s potable water supply.

So the crew pays as much attention to the water systems as they do to the engines and the weapons. But the systems are complicated and mistakes can happen; pipes can be cross-connected, valves can fail, and damage can accrue from the stresses of combat and tens of thousands of miles traveled. Under the circumstances it is entirely possible for two crewmen working in a confined space to make a small mistake. But small mistakes can have uncomfortable consequences.


< Message edited by Cuttlefish -- 4/23/2008 5:23:44 AM >

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Post #: 2674
RE: Small Ship, Big War - Water, Water Everywhere - 4/23/2008 9:39:55 AM   
histgamer

 

Posts: 1455
Joined: 11/30/2006
Status: offline 		Oh jeez I never thought of the outbreak of disease on Hibiki. Fantastic Idea even if it doesnt happen.

(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 2675
RE: Small Ship, Big War - Water, Water Everywhere - 4/23/2008 4:40:28 PM   
AcePylut


Posts: 1494
Joined: 3/19/2004
Status: offline 		I smell a fire that gets outta control!

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Post #: 2676
RE: Small Ship, Big War - Water, Water Everywhere - 4/23/2008 5:47:23 PM   
tocaff


Posts: 4781
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline 		Our story teller is weaving his tale and allowing the vagarities of life to enter the war as real life demands.

Reminds me of my buddy at Ft Dix, NJ in the latrine (head for this forum) and a steam pipe bursting behind where he sat.  Nasty scalding that day.


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I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
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(in reply to AcePylut)
Post #: 2677
RE: Small Ship, Big War - Water, Water Everywhere - 4/23/2008 9:09:27 PM   
Cuttlefish

 

Posts: 2454
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline 		January 14, 1944

Location: 290 miles northwest of Marcus
Course: Northwest
Attached to: TF 9
Mission: Surface Combat
System Damage: 2
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 261
Orders: Escort Yamato back to Japan

---

“Riku looks a little green, don’t you think?” Yoshitake asks Oizuma.

Oizuma chuckles. “He’s looked like that ever since Shun released him from that oath. We’ll be in Japan is a few days and now he’s realizing he will actually have to talk to the girl.”

Shiro looks up. “He really does look a little green. Are you feeling okay, Riku?” Riku’s face not only has a greenish tinge, Shiro notes, but there are beads of sweat on his forehead and he has one arm across his stomach.

“I don’t think so,” says Riku through clenched teeth. “My stomach is in knots. In fact...” He suddenly turns his head to one side and one hand comes up quickly to cover his mouth.

“Riku, no, not on my hammock!” cries Oizuma, but too late. Riku vomits violently. Then there is a bubbling sound and a sudden stench fills the narrow bunk area. Riku looks up apologetically, then collapses to the floor.

“Both ends,” says Yoshitake. “He’s really sick. Come on, we have to get him to the dispensary.” Shiro hurries to help and the two sailors help Riku to his feet.

“I am sorry for the mess,” says Riku weakly as they help him along. He lurches as another cramp twists his guts. “Oh gods, I can’t get sick now!”

“Trust me,” says Yoshitake, wrinkling his nose against the smell, “you are sick.”

---

“We have nine cases so far this morning,” Lieutenant JG Nakagawa tells Captain Ishii, “and there are going to be more. I’ve ordered the water supply shut off and I’ll do some tests. With luck only one tank is contaminated and we will be able to resume using the other.”

“But what is it?” the captain asks.

Nakagawa shrugs. “I don’t know yet,” he says. “At worst it’s typhoid or cholera. If the ship’s luck holds it is only dysentery or some similar bacterial infection. I’ll know in a few hours. Fortunately all these men are young and healthy. If I can keep them hydrated they should be all right.”

“I am glad we are nearing port,” says Captain Ishii grimly.

Nakagawa nods. “Indeed. Anyone showing signs of illness should report to me immediately. And have the cooks boil all water before they use it. There is a lot of clean-up needed and all waste should go straight overboard and all mops and sponges, everything used, should be boiled or go over the side afterwards.”

“I will see to it,” says Captain Ishii. “Please inform me as soon as you know something more.”

“Yes sir,” says Nakagawa. Captain Ishii departs and Nakagawa hurries to treat another crewman lurching into the dispensary. It is going to be a very long day for the ship’s medic.


(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 2678
RE: Small Ship, Big War - Water, Water Everywhere - 4/23/2008 9:10:48 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Here we go...

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Post #: 2679
RE: Small Ship, Big War - Water, Water Everywhere - 4/23/2008 9:33:46 PM   
FeurerKrieg


Posts: 3397
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline 		Uh oh.... less lookouts to spot torpedo wakes.

I think it was mentioned early in the thread, but anyone who like this thread should read "Japanese Destroyer Captain". I'm just finishing it and it is a great read.

http://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Destroyer-Captain-Guadalcanal-Battles/dp/1591143543/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208975503&sr=8-1

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Upper portion used with permission of www.subart.net, copyright John Meeks

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Post #: 2680
RE: Small Ship, Big War - Water, Water Everywhere - 4/23/2008 11:04:02 PM   
thegreatwent


Posts: 3011
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline 		I'm about 1/2 way through "Japanese Destroyer Captain" and have found it to be eyeopening. In terms of CF's narrative I can't even imagine the misery of a widespread sickness in such a close environment, the only thing that would be worse would be an outbreak on a fully loaded troopship.

CF you have succeeded in telling a story that allows for suspense of disbelief and personal investment on behalf of the reader in the welfare of your characters. Well done

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Post #: 2681
RE: Small Ship, Big War - Water, Water Everywhere - 4/23/2008 11:51:09 PM   
sadja

 

Posts: 299
Joined: 8/1/2004
Status: offline 		It has been at least 30 years since I read that book. I have forgotten most of it. He ends his time as the captain of the lt cruiser that accompanies the Yamato on it's last mission.

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Post #: 2682
RE: Small Ship, Big War - Water, Water Everywhere - 4/24/2008 12:01:23 AM   
thegreatwent


Posts: 3011
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline 		D'oh thanks for the spoiler

But it is a very good read

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Post #: 2683
RE: Small Ship, Big War - Water, Water Everywhere - 4/24/2008 12:44:12 AM   
1275psi

 

Posts: 7979
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline 		Many years ago I served on a DE, crew of 250 -and somebody allowed the freezers to defrost - and then to hide the mistake re froze them........................

After the Chicken was served we had about 180 of us violently sick - uncontrollable runs, uncontrollable vomiting.
Literally the ship was crippled, and we crawled back into port, and stayed there for 3 days.

The after heads for our stokers mess had just 4 toilets, 2 showers.
I am totally un able to convey the misery of 40 of us trying to vomit, crap, and generally be very miserable all at once in that place over those 3 days.

Not even cuttlefishes great writing is going to come close to that little episode in my life................

(in reply to thegreatwent)
Post #: 2684
RE: Small Ship, Big War - Water, Water Everywhere - 4/24/2008 1:10:32 AM   
Dixie


Posts: 10303
Joined: 3/10/2006
From: UK
Status: offline 		Picture of Hibiki, circa mid-January 1944




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 2685
RE: Small Ship, Big War - Water, Water Everywhere - 4/24/2008 1:41:08 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Eeeeew...

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Post #: 2686
RE: Small Ship, Big War - Water, Water Everywhere - 4/24/2008 1:49:26 AM   
Cuttlefish

 

Posts: 2454
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 1275psi

Many years ago I served on a DE, crew of 250 -and somebody allowed the freezers to defrost - and then to hide the mistake re froze them........................

After the Chicken was served we had about 180 of us violently sick - uncontrollable runs, uncontrollable vomiting.
Literally the ship was crippled, and we crawled back into port, and stayed there for 3 days.

The after heads for our stokers mess had just 4 toilets, 2 showers.
I am totally un able to convey the misery of 40 of us trying to vomit, crap, and generally be very miserable all at once in that place over those 3 days.

Not even cuttlefishes great writing is going to come close to that little episode in my life................


I was going to post something about how episodes like the current one aboard Hibiki are more common than one might think, but 1275psi has made that unnecessary. Sorry to have brought back those memories!



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Post #: 2687
RE: Small Ship, Big War - Water, Water Everywhere - 4/24/2008 1:51:20 AM   
Cuttlefish

 

Posts: 2454
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie

Picture of Hibiki, circa mid-January 1944





Yuck! Funny, though.

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Post #: 2688
RE: Small Ship, Big War - Water, Water Everywhere - 4/24/2008 1:54:37 AM   
Cuttlefish

 

Posts: 2454
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline 		January 15, 1944

Location: 360 miles southeast of Tokyo
Course: Northwest
Attached to: TF 9
Mission: Surface Combat
System Damage: 2
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 232
Orders: Escort Yamato back to Japan

---

Forty-seven members of the crew become ill before the outbreak is checked. Based on the symptoms Nakagawa decides that it is some form of dysentery and not something more serious. The afflicted men are nonetheless miserable, even though all of them will eventually recover. Nakagawa traces the illness to one of the two main potable water tanks. That tank is flushed and ballasted with salt water and the crew resumes using the clean tank.

The crewmen who remain healthy are almost as unhappy. Not only do they get to stand extra watches, they get the burden of cleaning up after forty-seven sick men, all of whom have explosive diarrhea and many of whom are vomiting. Even sailors used to spending long months in confined spaces find the current conditions disgusting. The ship’s supply of soap dwindles rapidly.

---

“This outbreak comes at a bad time,” Captain Ishii tells Lieutenant Miharu. “It is dangerous to be short handed right now.” He holds up a message flimsy. “Yamato relayed a report this morning that five enemy submarines were spotted yesterday within 300 miles of Tokyo Bay.”

“If our planes saw five submarines there are probably twice that many that they didn’t see,” comments Lieutenant Miharu.

“Just so,” says Ishii. “They are sending out some of the new Type C and D escort ships to try and clear a corridor for us as we approach Tokyo, but the chances of an attack will still be high.”

“Do you think all those submarines are there to try and welcome Yamato home?” asks the lieutenant.

“It could be,” Ishii says. “Whatever the reason, we must be on our guard. The next forty-eight hours will be dangerous ones.”


(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 2689
RE: Small Ship, Big War - Water, Water Everywhere - 4/24/2008 4:10:07 AM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		Meanwhile...






-F-

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Feinder -- 4/24/2008 4:11:29 AM >

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Post #: 2690
RE: Small Ship, Big War - Water, Water Everywhere - 4/24/2008 4:44:39 AM   
Admiral DadMan


Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

Meanwhile...






-F-


Torpeeeeedo!!! To the Starboard!!

"You Arhgant assss! You've killed US!!!"

_____________________________

Scenario 127: "Scraps of Paper"
(\../)
(O.o)
(> <)

CVB Langley:

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Post #: 2691
RE: Small Ship, Big War - Water, Water Everywhere - 4/24/2008 5:20:35 AM   
Capt. Harlock


Posts: 5358
Joined: 9/15/2001
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
quote:

“This outbreak comes at a bad time,” Captain Ishii tells Lieutenant Miharu. “It is dangerous to be short handed right now.” He holds up a message flimsy. “Yamato relayed a report this morning that five enemy submarines were spotted yesterday within 300 miles of Tokyo Bay.”
“If our planes saw five submarines there are probably twice that many that they didn’t see,” comments Lieutenant Miharu.


I do believe my question about American Intel on the Yamato has been answered . . .

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Post #: 2692
RE: Small Ship, Big War - Water, Water Everywhere - 4/24/2008 5:29:20 AM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16842
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cuttlefish


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie

Picture of Hibiki, circa mid-January 1944





Yuck! Funny, though.


At least the Captain's shower is working.

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Post #: 2693
RE: Small Ship, Big War - Water, Water Everywhere - 4/24/2008 5:31:49 AM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16842
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

Meanwhile...






-F-


Do you really think that any sub would be able to survive in that water anywhere near firing range?

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Post #: 2694
RE: Small Ship, Big War - Water, Water Everywhere - 4/24/2008 6:05:31 AM   
Admiral DadMan


Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

Meanwhile...






-F-


Do you really think that any sub would be able to survive in that water anywhere near firing range?


It's a chumline...

_____________________________

Scenario 127: "Scraps of Paper"
(\../)
(O.o)
(> <)

CVB Langley:

(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 2695
RE: Small Ship, Big War - Water, Water Everywhere - 4/24/2008 12:13:51 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Well, sharks ARE omnivorous...

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Post #: 2696
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 4/24/2008 9:51:22 PM   
Cuttlefish

 

Posts: 2454
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline 		January 16, 1944

Location: 120 miles southeast of Tokyo
Course: Northwest
Attached to: TF 9
Mission: Surface Combat
System Damage: 2
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 204
Orders: Escort Yamato back to Japan

---

Captain Ishii stands on the port observation platform and scans the gray ocean. His gaze comes to rest on battered Yamato, steaming serenely along under a high overcast. The big battleship is a target that no submarine commander could resist, but so far today there have been no attacks. No periscopes have been sighted and none of the screening destroyers have had a sonar contact.

Ishii hears the drone of an airplane and looks up. A Kawanishi E7K float plane is cruising a few thousand meters over the task force. It is not the first plane Ishii has seen today; planes out of the airfields around Tokyo have been scouring the seas around and ahead of the task force since shortly after sunrise. That is not the only measure being taken to protect the pride of the Imperial Japanese Navy. Some miles out ahead of the task force a group of five patrol craft is sweeping the ocean, trying to clear a path.

Ishii turns and steps back onto the bridge just time to see Lieutenant Kuwaki come up the ladder. Kuwaki comes over and salutes.

“Still quiet, sir?” Kuwaki says. “Looks like our luck is holding.”

“I’m starting to think there is something to that silly snake superstition some of the men have,” Ishii says with a smile. “How is Lieutenant Sugiyura?”

“Weak and still a bit feverish, sir. He seemed to think I was his father.”

“Hm. I hope you were reassuring.”

“Don’t worry, sir, I told him I was proud of him,” says Kuwaki. “Lieutenant Nakagawa says that there have been no more new cases. Nakagawa looks tired, though. I’m glad we’ll reach Tokyo soon.”

“Me too,” says Ishii. “But we aren’t quite there yet.”

(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 2697
RE: Small Ship, Big War - Water, Water Everywhere - 4/24/2008 10:36:18 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

Meanwhile...






-F-


Do you really think that any sub would be able to survive in that water anywhere near firing range?


If they tried, the sub would sink from external corrosion shortly after getting the first targeting mark.


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Distant Worlds Fan

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(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 2698
RE: Small Ship, Big War - Water, Water Everywhere - 4/25/2008 10:36:57 AM   
Durbik


Posts: 276
Joined: 1/20/2008
From: Krakow, Poland
Status: offline 		Well, Tokio should be a nice chance for the crew (and for us)to know how's the war going on other fronts...

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obey the fist!

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Post #: 2699
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 4/25/2008 7:59:46 PM   
mdiehl

 

Posts: 5998
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline
quote:

The islands of Kwajalein Atoll fall astern and are soon lost to sight. No one aboard Hibiki suspects yet that the destroyer has just finished her last visit of the war to the islands, her home for much of the fighting so far.


I don't think that is necessarily so ominous. It may simply mean that by the time Hibiki gets her next assignment, Kwajalein will have become an American base. Hibiki may have caught a break in being assigned Yamato escort duty.

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Show me a fellow who rejects statistical analysis a priori and I'll show you a fellow who has no knowledge of statistics.

Didn't we have this conversation already?

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Post #: 2700
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