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Aircraft - 5/1/2008 12:43:29 AM

langley

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I wonder if anyone could give us a list of aircraft used in both games.

In BoB for example do we get to see the RAF with Airacobra Mk I in 601 squadron. Also do we see 56 Squadron with Hawker Typhoons in September 1941.

A list of aircraft for Bombing the Reich would also be welcome.

Thanks

MJT

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RE: Aircraft - 5/1/2008 2:32:17 PM

Hard Sarge

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if you can give me some more info on these time lines, I can see what I can do

most of my info on the 39 was it was tested, and found wanting, didn't see that it got used too much, I could set this up as a land lease model and it would come in as reinforcements, then the AI or Player could decide if they want to use it (If I can cook up the Artwork)

the Tiffy, I am a little less sure of, my thoughts were it was still too much in prototeype mode and had lots of trouble getting it to work, then it was a working produced model, which, if I did add this, this would also have to be a on the side production model, I would not be able to set this up to be built ( I could set it up to build, but a lot of work to keep it fair and balanced, the RAF are not going to want to try and get this into production early, they are going to be HARD pressed to keep up with lossses as it is)

give me more info and talk me into it, and I may be able to see what I can do

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RE: Aircraft - 5/1/2008 2:35:00 PM

Hard Sarge

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not totally written in stone, but here is what we got for BoB right now

1   Hurricane I
2   Hurricane IIA
3   Hurricane IIC
4   Spitfire IA
5   Spitfire IIA
6   Spitfire IB
8   Blenheim IF
9   Beaufighter IF
18 Defiant I
19 Defiant IA
22 Sea Gladiator
23 Gladiator
25 Fulmar
28 Martlet I
201 Bf 109E-1
202 Bf 109E-3
203 Bf 109E-4
204 Bf 109E-4/B
205 Bf 109E-7
206 Bf 109E-7/B
207 CR.42 Falco
208 G.50bis Freccia
210 Bf 110C-4
211 Bf 110D-0/B
212 Bf 110D-1/R1
227 Ju 87B
228 Do 17Z-2
233 He 111H-4
234 Ju 88A-4
235 Fw 200C-1
236 BR.20M Cicogna
238 Bf 110C-5
239 Do 17P-1
240 Do 215B-1
241 He 111P
242 Ju 86P-2
243 Ju 88D-1
244 Cant Z.1007 Alcione
247 Do 17Z-10
248 Do 215B-5
249 Ju 88C-2

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RE: Aircraft - 5/1/2008 2:59:34 PM

Terminus

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The Airacobra was used very briefly and unsuccessfully by the RAF on a few Rhubarb flights to France. Nobody liked it, and it went away.

BTW, the Condor is in BoB???

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RE: Aircraft - 5/1/2008 3:19:48 PM

Hard Sarge

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Roger, that is what I remember about the 39

yes, always was, just it was more of a Naval Recon plane, you not going to see hordes of them around, but you may spot one

nothing flies it, but it "could" be used to replace some planes

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RE: Aircraft - 5/1/2008 4:30:31 PM

von Shagmeister

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I wouldn't bother with the Tiffie for the 41 scenario. Early a/c had a habit of the tailplane seperating from the fuselage and it took a long time to remedy. The whole Typhoon program was going to be cancelled until it was discovered that it was the only a/c capable of countering FW 190 tip and run raids at low level.

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RE: Aircraft - 5/1/2008 4:34:16 PM

Hard Sarge

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that is how I basicly remember it, lots and lots of trouble with the engines too

was reading about a mission in 44 where a Tiffy snapped in half, it shocked alot of the pilots who seen it, they went back and reported it, and the WC grounded his wing until the planes could be looked at, not one plane in his Wing had been "fixed", sort of a major stink and massive correction program to make sure all of the planes in used had been worked on and corrected

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RE: Aircraft - 5/1/2008 5:21:44 PM

von Shagmeister

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

that is how I basicly remember it, lots and lots of trouble with the engines too

Yes I believe the Sabre I had lots of trouble with the sleeve valves.

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RE: Aircraft - 5/1/2008 6:48:33 PM

Dixie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: von Shagmeister

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

that is how I basicly remember it, lots and lots of trouble with the engines too

Yes I believe the Sabre I had lots of trouble with the sleeve valves.

And carbon monoxide in the cockpit IIRC

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RE: Aircraft - 5/1/2008 8:41:03 PM

Terminus

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Never a good thing...

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RE: Aircraft - 5/1/2008 11:44:34 PM

Once Joey

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It basically took an indirect path to the Eastern Front...

In 1940, the British Direct Purchase Commission in the US was looking for combat aircraft; they ordered 675 of the export version Bell Model 14 as the "Caribou" on the strength of the company's representations on 13 April 1940. The performance of the Bell P-39 prototype and 13 test aircraft which were able to achieve a speed of 390 mph (630 km/h) at altitude was due to the installation of turbo-supercharging. The British armament was 0.50-inch machine guns in the fuselage, and four 0.30-inch machine guns in the wings, the 37 mm gun was replaced by a 20 mm Hispano Suiza.

The British export models were renamed "Airacobra" in 1941. A further 150 were specified for delivery under Lend-lease in 1941 but these were not supplied. The Royal Air Force (RAF) took delivery in mid 1941 and found that actual performance of the non-turbo-supercharged production aircraft differed markedly from what they were expecting.In some areas, the Airacobra was inferior to existing aircraft such as the Hawker Hurricane and Supermarine Spitfire and its performance at altitude suffered drastically. On the other hand it was considered effective for low level fighter and ground attack work. Problems with gun and exhaust flash suppression and compass were fixable.

No. 601 Squadron RAF was the only British unit to use the Airacobra operationally, receiving their first two examples on 6 August 1941. On 9 October, four Airacobras attacked enemy barges near Dunkirk, in the type's only operational action with the RAF. The squadron continued to train with the Airacobra during the winter, but in March 1942, it re-equipped with Spitfires.

The Airacobras already in the UK, along with the remainder of the first batch being built in the US, were sent to the Soviet Air force.

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RE: Aircraft - 5/2/2008 3:59:25 AM

Denniss

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

210 Bf 110C-4
211 Bf 110D-0/B
212 Bf 110D-1/R1

Is #211 a typo and you meant Bf 110 C-4/B ?
There should be no Ju 88 A-4 around in 1940, even in 1941 production was slow until summer/autumn 1941 as the Jumo 211J engine production was far behind and initially very slow.

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RE: Aircraft - 5/2/2008 1:33:48 PM

Terminus

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You DO remember that the BoB list is also for the summer of 1941, right?

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RE: Aircraft - 5/2/2008 2:35:26 PM

Hard Sarge

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Naw he is right, been meaning to replace that title for a while and then something keeps popping up, it is not suppost to be a A-4

and the 41 has it's own list of planes
(I didn't show that one, as I am waiting to rework some of the 110s and didn't want to have to explain why, when I was waiting to rework it:)

211 is correct, funny we just had some questions asked on that in the beta side, and somebody else jumped in and explained it before I could

the D-0/B is the correct model for what I want

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RE: Aircraft - 5/2/2008 4:27:12 PM

Terminus

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D'oh... Hides face in shame...

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RE: Aircraft - 5/2/2008 11:10:22 PM

Dixie

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Will the Beaufighter MkII make it into the game for the '41 scenario? Although it wasn't well liked there were 450 built which equipped several squadrons at various times. No's 255 and 307 Sqns were both equipped with it during summer 1941, and there may be others.

< Message edited by Dixie -- 5/2/2008 11:12:29 PM >

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RE: Aircraft - 5/3/2008 1:58:21 AM

Denniss

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge
211 is correct, funny we just had some questions asked on that in the beta side, and somebody else jumped in and explained it before I could

the D-0/B is the correct model for what I want

Where did they use pre-production aircraft ?
-0 is a pre-production designation usually built in a small series of 10 to 30 a/c .

The D-0 were some C-series aircraft with the Dackelbauch auxillary fuel tank and additional surviving equiment, the D-1/R1 was the production version and the D-1/R2 replaced Dackelbauch with two underwing 900l drop tanks.

< Message edited by Denniss -- 5/3/2008 2:07:14 AM >

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RE: Aircraft - 5/3/2008 12:05:44 PM

langley

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Thank you for coming back to me!
The Airacobra only flew a few missions over france in 1941 and as far as I can recall did not take part in air to air combat.
While I agree that the Typhoon Had a number of problems it was one of the few Aircraft that could a Fw 190 at low level, hence if the Fw 190 was in the 1941 game then maybe the Typhoon should be as well.
Like Bakerstaffel says the P39 or P400 only flew one or maybe two missions on type.

In 1940, the British Direct Purchase Commission in the US was looking for combat aircraft; they ordered 675 of the export version Bell Model 14 as the "Caribou" on the strength of the company's representations on 13 April 1940. The performance of the Bell P-39 prototype and 13 test aircraft which were able to achieve a speed of 390 mph (630 km/h) at altitude was due to the installation of turbo-supercharging. The British armament was 0.50-inch machine guns in the fuselage, and four 0.30-inch machine guns in the wings, the 37 mm gun was replaced by a 20 mm Hispano Suiza.

The British export models were renamed "Airacobra" in 1941. A further 150 were specified for delivery under Lend-lease in 1941 but these were not supplied. The Royal Air Force (RAF) took delivery in mid 1941 and found that actual performance of the non-turbo-supercharged production aircraft differed markedly from what they were expecting.In some areas, the Airacobra was inferior to existing aircraft such as the Hawker Hurricane and Supermarine Spitfire and its performance at altitude suffered drastically. On the other hand it was considered effective for low level fighter and ground attack work. Problems with gun and exhaust flash suppression and compass were fixable.

No. 601 Squadron RAF was the only British unit to use the Airacobra operationally, receiving their first two examples on 6 August 1941. On 9 October, four Airacobras attacked enemy barges near Dunkirk, in the type's only operational action with the RAF. The squadron continued to train with the Airacobra during the winter, but in March 1942, it re-equipped with Spitfires.

The Airacobras already in the UK, along with the remainder of the first batch being built in the US, were sent to the Soviet Air force.

Thanks for your time
MJT

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RE: Aircraft - 5/3/2008 2:17:31 PM

Hard Sarge

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"The D version is right for Epr210 in 1940:
Stab and 2 Staffel had the 110D-0/B fighter-bomber, while 1 Staffel had the C-6 with no bombs but the 30mm MK101 for strafing.

The D-0 is not the Dackelbauch per se, that is what the R1 model designated (Dackelbauch plus wing tanks strictly speaking), whilst the R2 was the wing tanks only."

in game, I have the Stab and 2 Staffel with the D-0/B with 2 500 Kilo bombs, I have 1 Staffel with the D-0/B but with a 30mm and 2 250 Kilo bombs, it is suppost to be a C-6 but changed the weapons instead of making a different model for just one Staffel to fly with, production would be a bear for replacement aircraft)

the game system is not really going to understand the Staffel just having a 30mm cannon for ground attack, it needs something to drop, so give it a lighter bomb load

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RE: Aircraft - 5/17/2008 12:29:07 PM

otisabuser2

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Missing the Blenheim IVF.

A fraction faster than the IF, but makes a difference chasing the LW bombers.

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RE: Aircraft - 5/17/2008 4:28:48 PM

Hard Sarge

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Give me some more info on this

for Aug 8th I have only the If flying,
by Jan 41, I have 219, 23, 15, 29 flying the If
by June, I only have 68 with a mix of Bl and BFs, and FIU (mixed Bl, BF and Havoc)
by July, I got no Bl in use (FIU is into BF and Havocs)

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RE: Aircraft - 5/17/2008 5:16:21 PM

Hard Sarge

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for what it is worth, I find the IVf to be worse off then the If ?

I see statements of 60 or 120 converted to If standard, 2 Squadrons used during BoB timeline

also see statements of it uses for CC

to the good, I improved the If some, top speed and cruise seem slower then the stats I been finding for it

(which stats for the IV look worse then the I ?)

if you got better info, let me know

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RE: Aircraft - 5/17/2008 9:41:43 PM

Dixie

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I believe that most Blenheim MkIVFs were assigned to Coastal Command or to Mid East Command as long range fighters rather than Night Fighters with Fighter Command.

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RE: Aircraft - 5/19/2008 1:35:44 PM

otisabuser2

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Yes the Blenheim IVF was used mainly by the Coastal Command.

HS, as you rightly suspected, I was indeed angling for a slight increase in the game speed of the Blenheim. Didn't seem right that these fighters were unable to catch the LW bombers. After all there were many claims from pilots that did.

As you say, the published stats show the IV being a little slower. However, there seems to be a huge variance with these figures, which incidently, often quote the bomber not the fighter version.

The IV bomber also often includes the extra lower rear-firing turret ( which we can ignore on the fighter versions ) and also the extra fuel. The longer range was why the CC units used it.

Finally the IV also had the twin gun upper turret. Fighter Command began removing these turrets later in the battle.

regards Otis

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RE: Aircraft - 6/28/2008 2:20:49 PM

Raverdave

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Ahhhhh !!!!!!!! What about the Westland Whirlwind? First deployed operationaly in July '40 to No 263 or was it 236 Squadron?

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RE: Aircraft - 6/28/2008 4:47:32 PM

Hard Sarge

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263, 236 was a CC outfit

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RE: Aircraft - 6/28/2008 5:30:15 PM

Hard Sarge

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got me on that one

I had added it in for BoB41, (along with 137) but I see it was around, but with 13 Group (really, wasn't ready for action yet)

and it had trouble with normal RAF Grass fields

but, 263 now has Whirlwinds, I am not going to let this one be producable in 1940 (it is in 41) I am going to give the RAF a month and a half of production for it, so there will be some replacement aircraft around, with out being able to rearm half of the RAF with it

Maint has been doubled for this plane, to reflect all the trouble they had with the engines and other teething trouble

one hassle is going to be, I am not setting a upgrade for this aircraft, the unit should stick with the wind, but if the AI gets hammered and hammered bad, it won't know what to do (unless you get lucky) the player will be able to change or leave alone as they see fit

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RE: Aircraft - 6/29/2008 10:52:17 AM

Raverdave

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IIRC 263 swapped their Whirlwinds for Hurricanes sometime in late '41 early '42?

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RE: Aircraft - 6/29/2008 11:03:19 AM

von Shagmeister

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263 Sqn operated the Whirlwind from Jul40 toDec43, they then operated the Typhoon Ib (Dec43-Aug45)

137 Sqn operated the Whirlwind from Feb41-Jun43, then the Hurricane IV (Jun43-Jan44), then the Typhoon Ib (Jan44-Aug45)

These two units were the only Sqns operational on the Whirlwind.

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RE: Aircraft - 6/29/2008 12:53:46 PM

Hard Sarge

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I show 137 not being formed until Sept 41 ?

and I show 263 with the Wind until it got the Tiffy

< Message edited by Hard Sarge -- 6/29/2008 12:54:35 PM >

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