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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> I complain...

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I complain... - 3/23/2002 4:55:28 AM

Mikimoto

Posts: 511
Joined: 11/6/2000
From: Barcelona, Catalunya
Status: offline

Hello.

I own the first two MC. I will not buy the third. Why?
My hopes were that the last version of Spwaw was ACTUALLY the DEFINITIVE and BUGFREE LAST version. But you did some wierd things with 7.0, some strange improvements (that generated new bugs) instead of a definitive bug killing (lots of ancient bugs anywhere).

The armour system was down and corrupted. A sherman was a T-34, the T-34 was a Sherman, the PzIII was a little-Tiger, etc.. It was not the LAST and BUGFREE version I was waiting. It was a fairy tale... do you remember? In version 6.1 I learned to live with a very downgraded infantry, and I didn't liked it, but 7.0 was so much for me...

Add to this that the two MC's I own are implayable, they need a patch too. Now I am waiting for Combat Leader. If it passes the first two months after release without major bugs or issues, i will buy it. Or make a Demo version available to give it a try first.

I hope you will make great games in the future but thats a hope, only a possibility and definetively not an act of faith. Business is business. And I wan to see a game completely made from Matrix triumphing in the market. Go ahead for Combat Leader.

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Desperta ferro!
Miquel Guasch Aparicio

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 61

- 3/23/2002 5:08:17 AM

Paul Vebber

Posts: 11430
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Portsmouth RI
Status: offline

For the record I took a sample of over 25,000 downloads from email address data we collected at one point by requiring you log your email to access the download page. That gave a pretty good idea of the distribution of "repeat customers". When I made the 70k estimate of individual customers, it accounted for a large number returning multiple times, based on the sample. I doubt the error bar on the 70K is more than 10-15%. Davids greater figure most likely included a longer timeframe than I first included.

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 62

- 3/23/2002 8:42:10 AM

rich12545

Posts: 1705
Joined: 10/31/2000
From: Palouse, WA
Status: offline

Perhaps you folks would sell more mega campaigns, especially to europe, if just the mc could be downloaded after paying. Some companies offer this. No shipping costs. No wait. If other companies can do this, so can you. And that would eliminate many of the complaints I read here.

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 63

- 3/23/2002 10:33:05 AM

rlc27

Posts: 306
Joined: 7/21/2001
From: Connecticut, USA
Status: offline

That sounds like a great idea! You might get more "impulse purchases" that way, too, like the candy at the checkout counter at Super Stop and Shop. The only problem would be that the download would be massive, I guess. Perhaps Matrix could sell the MC's for like $10 less by download?

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"They couldn't hit an elephant from this dist--"

--John Sedgwick, failing to reduce suppression during the Battle of the Wilderness, U.S. Civil War.

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 64

- 3/23/2002 12:06:50 PM

Capt Chris

Posts: 200
Joined: 2/4/2002
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

[QUOTE]If you play SP from a free download or cover disc (like I did for a long while) don't you feel you owe something to the designers and programmers who have brought it to you? [/QUOTE]
I don't feel I owe anyone anything for playing my FREE DOWNLOADED copy of the game. Unfortunately I really don't enjoy playing campaign type games of any kind (at least not at this point in my wargaming life). I really like playing SPWaW but I don't see the point of buying a MC if I am not going to use it.

[QUOTE]If you don't, then you have no right to criticise or complain.[/QUOTE]
I don't complain about the OOB changes "I" think should be made. I don't complain when I have my own guys shot up by my own support aircraft. I don't complain about ANY flaws in the game at ANY level because I realize that Matrix didn't have to do this for anybody. They don't owe us ****, but they seem to deliver us a very good product time and again ( FOR FREE ).

I will be in the front of the line to buy CL when it comes out because I want to support Matrix, but I am not going to pay money for something I am not going to use. Just as Paul's wife wouldn't be happy if he were working for free, my wife wouldn't be happy if I started giving our money away for something I wouldn't use. Kinda like a snowblower in Southern California...

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Capt Chris

"Badges? We don't need no stinking badges!"

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 65

- 3/23/2002 10:39:56 PM

Bing

Posts: 1366
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: Gaylord, MI, USA
Status: offline

Here is my daily vote of confidence for the Matrix crew. Consider it done.

Guys: "Carborundum illigemati non est" - you can figure that one out, I think.

Bing

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 66

- 3/24/2002 1:30:26 AM

SkyVon

Posts: 32
Joined: 6/27/2001
Status: offline

Paul, I can understand your plight...heck, my wife gripes about my PLAYING the games. Good thing I travel for work a lot and have a laptop ;)

I think I am one of those 70,000 you are trying to get more revenue from...and here is my "gripe" and "two cents".

Gripe: I recently purchased MCLV, my first purchased MC. Having been, somewhat, involved with the original concept (MC) several years ago with that great little company that due to very unfortunate reasons, had to close it's doors, I was more than happy to pay the money for LV, despite it's somewhat high price. In my mind, I felt that I was paying for the work you did to bring SP to what it is now AND for the MC. I played the MC quite a lot and hit the loop, hit the loop, repeat. I was able to get a beta patch that corrected the loop only to find that soon after, I had gone as far as I could into the MC despite there being, what appeared to be, much more to play. I later learned that there will be an upgrade that will allow us to actually complete the MC and a patch avail to all that removes the loop. Ok, you know all this already...

Now my two cents: STOP spending time fine tuning and tweaking SPWWII. If there are any actual bugs, correct them asap and move on. Fix the problems with MCLV and release the game COMPLETE! Giving us 1/2 a MC leaves a very bad taste in our mouths. From my perspective, why would I buy another MC?
Releasing a product too early has been the body blow that has brought many a company to it's knees. You are only as good as your last product...that is a consumer fact of life. Try loweing *gasp* the price for the MC's; $19.99 is a much more palatable number for most people when buying an upgrade such as this. Volume Volume Volume! Look into boxing SPWWII and sell it for the same price, or include it (as you do now) in every MC with no more free DL's of SPWWII. Think of the 70,000 as beta testers, which we kind of were.

****, the Mrs is calling...something about a honey-do?

Best of luck to you, the family and the company...I stiill look forward to your massive Pacific War project :)

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 67

- 3/24/2002 4:45:03 AM

Alby

Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline

I think you mean SPWAW, not spwwII
:D :D :D :D

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Post #: 68

- 3/24/2002 10:29:01 AM

David Heath

Posts: 3274
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Staten Island NY
Status: offline

We should be release this weekend or early this week the patch to MCLV and SPWAW v7.1. We taken extra time to go over these errors and get them right. Once this is release we are done. The MCLV error Brent Richard ( designer of MCLV ) found the error and corrected it. Some times we miss things but other then that we are just about ready to go.

David

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 69

- 3/24/2002 11:20:06 AM

Mojo

Posts: 915
Joined: 2/6/2002
From: Portland, Oregon USA
Status: offline

Thank you David

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If something's not working you might want to tunk it a dite.
Mojo's Mom

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Post #: 70

- 3/24/2002 12:51:21 PM

PANZERJAEGER188

Posts: 12
Joined: 2/9/2002
From: CHICAGO
Status: offline

I personally agree with much of what Paul has said. Having got my first taste of wargaming in 1959 when my older brother and his friends let me sit in on a Avalon Hill game of Chancelorsville I guess you could say Ive been around for much of wargamings lifetime. I think what we sometimes forget is that many guys got into it because it was fun. I never cared if I won or lossed in those days just as long as I had a chance to play someone. Man, I bought every game that came out (most of which I still have). In the 80's after running out of people to play Squad Leader with,SSI came out with Kampfgruppe and I've been playing computer wargames ever since. I agree also with Paul that we've got to cut the new guys some slack. Ive been hammered a few times myself and it dosn't make you you want to say anything for a while. If us long time wargamers don't help bring new poeple pretty soon there won't be any left.
I own all 3 Steel Panther games and was a Novastar subscriber I think we'd all agree he did pretty good work but he could not get enough support to keep him going. We're running out of places to hang our hats. We need to put our money where our mouth is and support this hobby or we won't have one left.
Hell, buy a Mega Campaign and give them away as gifts (Say to a friend, brother or a nephew. I think this is a great site and I say bravo to Paul and friends for their great and continuing work!

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 71

- 3/25/2002 3:25:52 AM

Randy

Posts: 1172
Joined: 8/22/2000
From: Torrance, Calif. USA
Status: offline

Paul, so I guess after the release of this final OOB, it will be on to COMBAT LEADER! Keep up the good work.

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Semper Fi
Randy

The United States Marines: America's 911 Force-The Tip of the Spear

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 72

Re: Re Shipping Cost - 3/26/2002 11:20:41 AM

V-man

Posts: 151
Joined: 12/10/2001
From: Indiana
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Akmatov
[B]Mark

I was inclinded to respond negitively to your comment about people disregarding the shipping cost and supporting Matrix as shipping oversea is basically highway robbery. However, I went to the Matrix order site and was very impressed with the options available.

The shipping cost for one MC to Germany is:
Civilian
$30 - 13 - USPS (I'm sure the $13 postage gets the package
strapped to a sea turtle plodding in a generally
easterly direction and take a month or more -
no delivery dates listed)

[/B][/QUOTE]

USPS Surface to Germany is less than two weeks, usually.

_____________________________

"You see, in this world there's 2 kinds of people, my friend:
Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 73

Re: I complain... - 3/26/2002 11:23:00 AM

V-man

Posts: 151
Joined: 12/10/2001
From: Indiana
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mikimoto
[B]Hello.

I own the first two MC. I will not buy the third. Why?
My hopes were that the last version of Spwaw was ACTUALLY the DEFINITIVE and BUGFREE LAST version. But you did some wierd things with 7.0, some strange improvements (that generated new bugs) instead of a definitive bug killing (lots of ancient bugs anywhere).

[/B][/QUOTE]

Darn. I guess that game that you paid ZERO for isn't what you thought it was. Feel free to go out and download a BETTER, FREE, Game.

Sheesh!!!

_____________________________

"You see, in this world there's 2 kinds of people, my friend:
Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 74

Re: Re: I complain... - 3/26/2002 12:30:01 PM

rich12545

Posts: 1705
Joined: 10/31/2000
From: Palouse, WA
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by V-man
[B]

Darn. I guess that game that you paid ZERO for isn't what you thought it was. Feel free to go out and download a BETTER, FREE, Game.

Sheesh!!! [/B][/QUOTE]

Excuse me but your post is pretty asinine. He did say he bought two mega campaigns. So for him at least the game wasn't free at all. He paid about $60 altogether so he has every right to complain about bugs if he wants to.

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 75

- 3/26/2002 3:37:17 PM

Colonel von Blitz

Posts: 262
Joined: 12/4/2000
From: Espoo, Finland
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Paul Vebber
[B]We know at least 70,000 individuals downloaded SP:WaW. How many more got it in the magazine discs a year ago. who knows. If 10% are not willing to pony up and buy one megacampaign, then teh conclusion is that teh community apparantly expects us to do this for free or at best a couple grand a year (at a third world hourly return). [/B][/QUOTE]

I am probably already known here, by at least some of you guys, as PBEM enthusiast, but I'd love to show some support for you Matrix guys, problem is that you offer NOTHING interesting to buy for PBEM (or TCP/IP) players.

All the time you've been nagging that "this feature cannot be introduced since AI can't handle it" and "blahblahblah". If you guys check out some PC magazines, you'd see that it's online-gaming that rules at the moment.

At least 70000 individuals downloaded SPWaW, and many more got their copy of the game in the magazine discs. If A LOT less than 10% buys your Mega Campaign, I'd say that shows there is no market for offline-strategygames that much. But you have been pursuing the idea of Mega Campaigns. This is like trying to sell ice-water at the north pole!

I originally was a little interested in MC's, but that little interest was scared away when I saw the shipping costs to Europe. "Keep your CD's", I said to myself. You having a "Pay first - then download" -system...you would have me as a customer. And I believe there would have been much more Europeans too buying MC's.

Stop blaming the community, if you guys have made mistakes. On the other hand, it's way easier making conclusions that problem is not in you, but in others!

Colonel von Blitz

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--Light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak--

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Post #: 76

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I complain...