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Light Snow Terrain - 5/5/2008 3:32:23 AM   
junk2drive


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From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		As I understand it, winter 44-45 Western Europe battles were not very snowy. I would like a light snow terrain mod for 3D view.

There are screenshots of Squad Battles Winter War at wargamer.com in an AAR that has terrain with what I perceive as light snow. Anyone have this new game yet and would that terrain be moddable to CS?
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RE: Light Snow Terrain - 5/5/2008 5:25:51 PM   
Miamieagle

 

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Status: offline 		I think thats a terrific Idea!

Only as a option dow.

< Message edited by Miamieagle -- 5/5/2008 5:26:42 PM >

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RE: Light Snow Terrain - 5/5/2008 6:19:56 PM   
Jason Petho


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quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

As I understand it, winter 44-45 Western Europe battles were not very snowy. I would like a light snow terrain mod for 3D view.

There are screenshots of Squad Battles Winter War at wargamer.com in an AAR that has terrain with what I perceive as light snow. Anyone have this new game yet and would that terrain be moddable to CS?


You could create new snow graphics and swap them in when you want to use them.

Jason Petho

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RE: Light Snow Terrain - 5/7/2008 3:45:24 AM   
Warhorse


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From: Birdsboro, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Paul, I started to tinker with this idea, something like this?

Mike

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RE: Light Snow Terrain - 5/7/2008 5:52:23 AM   
cw58

 

Posts: 277
Joined: 8/4/2007
From: Hanford, CA, US
Status: offline 		I also like this idea. There's something about the original snow terrain graphics that bothers my eyes. Maybe because I haven't seen a lot of real snow in my lifetime. (I'm a non-skiing Californian.) I've even gone so far as to change the ground conditions in a scenario just to be able to play it and enjoy playing it. I know what some of you are thinking: Sacrilege! And, to make matters worse, it really slows down those pesky Russian ski platoons.

I don't think it's necessary to add a new ground condition to the game, but to be able to swap out the original graphics for a new, improved version would be great. And I think that Warhorse's initial effort is a big step in the right direction. Keep up the good work! And thanks.

cw58

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RE: Light Snow Terrain - 5/7/2008 5:12:50 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		This is part of the AAR screen that caught my eye. More of a green grass poking throught the snow look. I'm just hoping for something other than the Siberia look we have now. Since these are both Tiller games, I was hoping that the bmps could be converted without much work. I think this shot is in 2D mode but I believe 3D view is available in SB.






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RE: Light Snow Terrain - 5/7/2008 5:30:14 PM   
simovitch


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Status: offline 		Took a quick stab at it. more snow, maybe?




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RE: Light Snow Terrain - 5/7/2008 5:33:46 PM   
Huib


Posts: 585
Joined: 11/21/2006
From: Nederland
Status: offline 		Nice experiments. In 2 of my own scns I would have chosen light snow if it had been available...

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RE: Light Snow Terrain - 5/7/2008 5:37:10 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
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From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		Nice start. Kind of hard to make out the trees though. Can you try it with both summer and fall terrain?

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RE: Light Snow Terrain - 5/7/2008 5:49:03 PM   
Arkady


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Status: offline 		It looks good Warhorse

It can be used for late winter /early spring scenarios

Another possibility for early spring could be change of mud terrain graphic

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RE: Light Snow Terrain - 5/7/2008 5:56:56 PM   
Jason Petho


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From: Terrace, BC, Canada
Status: offline 		A few suggestions for light snow covered areas.

1. Snow cover is typically variable, depending on the weather conditions and how far into the winter season it is.

2. A light snow fall, early in the winter season will usually melt straight away without leaving a trace on the ground - the ground is still too warm.

3. A light snow fall, in the middle winter season tends to cover most objects, with the exception of paved roads and concrete structures.

4. A light snow fall in the middle and/or later in the winter season will cover everything, even if only with a centimetre of snow.

5. Snow takes longer to melt in shaded areas: in forested areas, the north side of buildings, in ditches, etc.

6. Certain snow types are easily displaced by wind and will drift, collecting in certain areas: against buildings, against fences, a treeline, etc. Depending on how dense the forest is, there may be little snow under the canopy.

7. Not all snow is created equal. The snow found in Belgium will be of a different nature than the snow found in Belarus. The snow found in northern Germany will be of a different nature than the snow found in Bavaria.

8. Even a light snow can turn off-road conditions into something that would simulate "muddy" conditions. While having little affect on tracked vehicles, it can be chaotic for wheeled vehicles.

That's a start.

Jason Petho

< Message edited by Jason Petho -- 5/7/2008 5:58:50 PM >

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RE: Light Snow Terrain - 5/7/2008 7:58:24 PM   
YohanTM2

 

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Status: offline 		I like the changes. My buddy and I don't play the winter scenarios as the overkill on snow really does not make for a visually pleasing scenario.

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RE: Light Snow Terrain - 5/7/2008 9:50:02 PM   
Ladmo

 

Posts: 132
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From: Utopia Ltd.
Status: offline 		I think anyone who came up with a complete set of light snow graphic plates would be doing a public service. Anything called eye-candy often gets a derisive snort in some quarters, but it can really increase the longevity of a game and enhance its psychological setting. I don't have the artistic skills, but if I did I would probably make A, B , and C terrain and building sets for each theatre, just to keep things fresh. Consider that a challenge to the artisitically inclined.

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RE: Light Snow Terrain - 5/7/2008 10:56:20 PM   
1925frank

 

Posts: 1039
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Status: offline 		I think the graphics are important too.  I won't play a game whose graphics irritate me.  Steel Panthers is a great game, but I can never get past the graphics.  I like everything about Steel Panthers but the graphics. 

I didn't like the night graphics in CS and avoided night scenarios until Jason modified them recently.  I like the night graphics now.

I'd never been bothered by the snow graphics, but now that it's been raised, I can see where it might bother others or it might be an area that could be improved. 

I like the 2d example above but don't care for the 3d example.  The even spread of white flattens the 3d graphics.  The even spread also causes a lot of the details in the 3d landscape to be lost.    

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RE: Light Snow Terrain - 5/7/2008 11:27:42 PM   
Jason Petho


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 1925frank


I didn't like the night graphics in CS and avoided night scenarios until Jason modified them recently.  I like the night graphics now.



While I appreciate the thought, it was Warhorse who corrected the graphics.

Well done, Warhorse!

Jason Petho



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RE: Light Snow Terrain - 5/7/2008 11:48:10 PM   
1925frank

 

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Status: offline 		Thanks, Warhorse.  The modified night graphics were a tremendous improvement. 

Does the game engine allow for more terrain types with their own defense and concealment values, or is that aspect of the game effectively capped like the sound bits?  My understanding is the sound bits have only so many slots and that there's no easy way to expand them.

The same question goes for the existing terrain types.  Is there a cap to the number of available variations.  For example, the Building and Industrial hexes have variations you can select when making a map.  Is it possible to add new buildings and new industrial hexes? 

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RE: Light Snow Terrain - 5/7/2008 11:56:02 PM   
Jason Petho


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From: Terrace, BC, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 1925frank

Thanks, Warhorse.  The modified night graphics were a tremendous improvement. 

Does the game engine allow for more terrain types with their own defense and concealment values, or is that aspect of the game effectively capped like the sound bits?  My understanding is the sound bits have only so many slots and that there's no easy way to expand them.

The same question goes for the existing terrain types.  Is there a cap to the number of available variations.  For example, the Building and Industrial hexes have variations you can select when making a map.  Is it possible to add new buildings and new industrial hexes? 


I have been hoping for additional, new terrain types for a long time now. Hopefully that will be something that can be expanded in the future.

Jason Petho


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RE: Light Snow Terrain - 5/8/2008 12:35:47 AM   
1925frank

 

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Status: offline 		One of the things not reflected in the game currently is fatigue from moving through certain terrain, like thick mud or deep snow.  Perhaps some terrain should trigger a "Fatigue" result when infantry move even one hex.

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RE: Light Snow Terrain - 5/8/2008 2:19:21 AM   
Warhorse


Posts: 5712
Joined: 5/12/2000
From: Birdsboro, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Man, this topic went far from yesterday!!

As for the questions about expanding the amount of icons available for terrain, for now it seems like that's not possible. I tried an experiment with making the file larger to accomodate a few more selections, it simply didn't acknowledge them! Maybe Wyatt may be able to do something about this in the future, I don't know, would be awesome though!

You guys are welcome about the graphics, it's my pleasure!!

Mike


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RE: Light Snow Terrain - 5/8/2008 5:46:08 AM   
Miamieagle

 

Posts: 173
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Status: offline 		Where can I get Warhorse Night graphics. Thank you ahead of time!

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RE: Light Snow Terrain - 5/8/2008 6:42:56 AM   
1925frank

 

Posts: 1039
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Status: offline 		Warhorse's night graphics were included in one of the patches -- probably patch 1.02.

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RE: Light Snow Terrain - 5/8/2008 1:33:26 PM   
Dumnorix


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Status: offline 		This variant is very interesting for my JTCS meets PG3D-mod - good for my Battle of the Bulge -Multiplayerscenarion. Can we make this to a 5th terrain-option.

H.Balck

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RE: Light Snow Terrain - 5/8/2008 5:10:09 PM   
1925frank

 

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Status: offline 		Here's another idea for thick mud/deep snow terrain:  For vehicles, there could be a chance of bogging down.  For example, you could expend AP to exit, but you might fail in the attempt and remain in the thick mud/deep snow hex, kind of like expending AP for a starshell but the starshell fails.

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Post #: 23
RE: Light Snow Terrain - 5/8/2008 5:30:26 PM   
simovitch


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Status: offline 		another attempt. for those ardennes scenarios:





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RE: Light Snow Terrain - 5/8/2008 6:30:40 PM   
Jason Petho


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From: Terrace, BC, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: simovitch

another attempt. for those ardennes scenarios:







While an excellent attempt, might I suggest alternating between a light purple, light blue and a white as opposed to using just white for the snow? It might add some depth and not look so whitewashed?

Jason Petho


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RE: Light Snow Terrain - 5/9/2008 3:11:08 PM   
simovitch


Posts: 5488
Joined: 2/14/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks Jason, I'm tinkering with your suggestions.

To really get this right for all terrain elements would look sweet but it will take some time... I can't guarantee that I'll finish what I started here.

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RE: Light Snow Terrain - 5/9/2008 3:55:26 PM   
Miamieagle

 

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Status: offline 		1925frank thank you!

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RE: Light Snow Terrain - 5/9/2008 3:57:11 PM   
Miamieagle

 

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Status: offline 		Simovitch I hope you do finish it.

Thank you!

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RE: Light Snow Terrain - 5/11/2008 5:12:54 AM   
cw58

 

Posts: 277
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From: Hanford, CA, US
Status: offline 		I thought I would try one of Jason's suggestions of mixing in other colors to try and tone down the harsh white look of the original snow terrain. This is not intended to be a light snow terrain but rather an alternate to the 'stock' snow terrain. I will now attempt to post a couple of screenshots for comparison but I'm afraid my posting inexperience may hinder my efforts. Here goes:

OK, I tried it and just couldn't do it. Can someone give me a clue (or a detailed explanation would be better) as to how to post screenshots. Thanks.

cw58

< Message edited by cw58 -- 5/11/2008 5:15:59 AM >

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RE: Light Snow Terrain - 5/11/2008 5:22:58 AM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		Click on Post Reply instead of typing in the box below. In the bottom of the new window is a check box for "imbed picture in post" then browse to your pic.

Sorry for the delay in posting. Simovitch, I like the 2nd edition better.

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