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Map design - 5/9/2008 8:31:04 AM

morgil

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Joined: 5/9/2008
From: Bergen, Norway
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First of all, I would like to say thanks for undertaking this huge and difficult job. Awesome.

Then to the critique :)
I gather from the forum that you are using bitmap, and have several thousand different images, to draw the world map. This seems a bit cumbersome to me, and would make for less detail on the map than could be hoped for, or more data to be generated than would be optimal.
What I would suggest is that you use a picture as background, and then have all the relevant information of each individual hex written up in code for the game engine only, like you have two overlaying maps, one visual for the player that is cute and fuzzy and one for the GE that is basically code.

That way you should reduce the resources needed to reprint the map when scrolling etc, or maybe you are already doing this, and im worrying needlessly.

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RE: Map design - 5/9/2008 12:48:24 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: morgil

First of all, I would like to say thanks for undertaking this huge and difficult job. Awesome.
Then to the critique :)
I gather from the forum that you are using bitmap, and have several thousand different images, to draw the world map. This seems a bit cumbersome to me, and would make for less detail on the map than could be hoped for, or more data to be generated than would be optimal.
What I would suggest is that you use a picture as background, and then have all the relevant information of each individual hex written up in code for the game engine only, like you have two overlaying maps, one visual for the player that is cute and fuzzy and one for the GE that is basically code.

That way you should reduce the resources needed to reprint the map when scrolling etc, or maybe you are already doing this, and im worrying needlessly.

Welcome to the forum.

When you say a picture as background, you must realize that the picture needs to be encoded somehow. Bitmapped pictures are the normal method. The other is vector graphics which are quite inappropriate in this situation.

The map data is completely separate from the bitmaps - either can be changed without regard to the other, as far as program execution is concerned. They do need to match though so that what the player sees accurately presents the underlying map data.

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to morgil)

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RE: Map design - 5/27/2008 8:42:29 PM

brian brian

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Joined: 11/16/2005
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well, can't find the thread where this has been discussed in the past, but just wondering if there is any progress on the idea of selling us a paper version of the new Pacific map? I would pay for one to use with the cardboard pieces. Northern Siberia and anything east of Pearl Harbor wouldn't be all that useful, but I'd love to get my hands on the rest... will this ever happen? I do mean a playable version, not a 'poster' type product.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 3

RE: Map design - 5/27/2008 9:20:02 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

well, can't find the thread where this has been discussed in the past, but just wondering if there is any progress on the idea of selling us a paper version of the new Pacific map? I would pay for one to use with the cardboard pieces. Northern Siberia and anything east of Pearl Harbor wouldn't be all that useful, but I'd love to get my hands on the rest... will this ever happen? I do mean a playable version, not a 'poster' type product.

It was discussed somwhere, though I do not remember which thread.

My plan was for 6 segments, each of which would be 5 feet high by 7 feet wide. When assembled they would be 10 feet high by 21 feet across. That allows for 2 or 3 full hexrows of overlap at the joins. In designing the map, the bounding hexes were the northern tip of Alaska and the southern tip of South America.

2 of the 6 segments would be the Americas, which could be placed elsewhere if so desired. If you do place the Americas elsewhere, then there are 17 hexrows of the other 2 southern pieces that could be trimmed, and 16 hexrows from the top.

Trimming 16 hexrows from the top leaves Iceland and the northern tip of Norway on-map, while 17 hewrows from the bottom leaves the southern tip of New Zealand on the map. 33/195 is a 17% reduction, which makes the height after trimming 8 feet 4 inches.

So, you could get the non-Americas to fit within 8.3 feet by 14 feet. The size of each hex would be virtually identical to the WIF FE paper maps (within 1/10 of an inch).

When I priced printing all 6 segments the $ amount was over $1000. Matrix is looking for a better price, but it is not a high priority item for them. In any event, the price would be a pass-through, since Matrix doesn't plan on marking up the cost (for them it would be an insignificant revenue stream).

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RE: Map design - 5/27/2008 9:26:14 PM

brian brian

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The part that would sell the most would be the most played parts of Asia. Even most of the Pacific could be left out. I could understand the high cost of doing the whole world, but we don't really need that.

How much for the digital rights to a playable version? Probably a lot of questions on copyright there for ADG and Matrix to work out, but sell me the download version and I'll burn up my own ink cartridges making it happen....

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 5

RE: Map design - 5/27/2008 10:55:47 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

The part that would sell the most would be the most played parts of Asia. Even most of the Pacific could be left out. I could understand the high cost of doing the whole world, but we don't really need that.

How much for the digital rights to a playable version? Probably a lot of questions on copyright there for ADG and Matrix to work out, but sell me the download version and I'll burn up my own ink cartridges making it happen....

I haven't given it any thought.

I know that Rob assembled the whole Pacific map, which he used as a background for the splash screens.

Patrice and I assembled a full north to south vertical strip covering Europe, but that was over a year ago so it is out of date.

Anyone who owns the game could take a series of screen shots, put them into a JPEG or BMP or TIFF (?) format and then print that. You might get into copyright trouble if you tried to sell it (or give it away to others) but for your own personal use? I'm not a lawyer, but that seems to me to fall within the bounds of "reasonable personal use".

If we decide to print this and make it available for sale, then the hard work of taking the screenshots (or writing a special program to capture the bitmapped image) would have been done. The tricky bit it to get the zoom level correct and coordinate that with the printer so the aspect ratio is maintained and the size of a printed hex matches your expectations: not too large, not too small.

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Steve

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RE: Map design - 5/28/2008 6:35:30 AM

brian brian

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just thinking out loud on ways to give y'all some money.... let us know if anything changes on this. I've done it via screen shots from CWiF for personal use and would do it again, but I'd rather just buy a nicely done product. I bought the rolled, never folded version of the PatiF maps that I didn't really need and had them professionally laminated (no bubbles, perfect small margins, rounded corners) with a dry-erase coating for another $150...so buying some new maps wouldn't scare me...

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 7

RE: Map design - 5/28/2008 6:57:51 AM

Gendarme

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From: Chicago, IL, USA
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For the record, I would buy European map from Matrix Wif and not only the Asia/Pacific maps. The new Africa looks great too. Call me crazy but I would want it all.

Anthony DeChristopher.

(in reply to brian brian)

Post #: 8

RE: Map design - 5/28/2008 5:54:50 PM

YohanTM2

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From: Toronto
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OK, your crazy

but so would I

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gendarme

For the record, I would buy European map from Matrix Wif�and�not�only�the Asia/Pacific maps.� The new Africa looks great too.� Call me crazy but I would want it all.

Anthony DeChristopher.

(in reply to Gendarme)

Post #: 9

RE: Map design - 5/28/2008 7:13:15 PM

Froonp

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Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yohan

OK, your crazy but so would I

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gendarme

For the record, I would buy European map from Matrix Wif�and�not�only�the Asia/Pacific maps.� The new Africa looks great too.� Call me crazy but I would want it all.

Anthony DeChristopher.

And I too, sure.

(in reply to YohanTM2)

Post #: 10

RE: Map design - 9/20/2008 12:27:56 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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Somewhere there was a long discussion about the sea areas around Legaspi, but I haven't been able to locate it.

So I decided on this thread for the latest changes to the map in that area. The Bismarck Sea on to the east of Legaspi and the South China Sea is to the west. Legaspi can be reached directly from both sea areas.

Attachment (1)

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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RE: Map design - 9/20/2008 6:17:24 AM

paulderynck

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Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
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It was in the thread on the AI for Norway - why wouldn't you think to look in that obvious place?

If the map you are showing is the final decision for Legaspi, it's OK by me but I'd suggest narrowing the land peninsula going southeast from the port so that there is a sliver of light blue "coastal" color between the land and the dark blue line. (OK call me anal, but I like to see the channel where the ships sail from Legaspi into the South China Sea.)

Has a decision been made about Auckland?

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Post #: 12