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RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 5/10/2008 3:31:13 AM   
marcuswatney

 

Posts: 279
Joined: 2/28/2006
Status: offline 		In the Royal Navy there is a rank of Captain which is quite senior ... he would expect to command more than one ship.

If Able Seaman Jones was in command of a ship, he might be addressed as 'captain' because he would be 'the captain' (note lower case) but never as Captain Able Seaman Jones. So "Report to the captain, Able Seaman Jones"

(in reply to cockney)
Post #: 841
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 5/10/2008 1:20:40 PM   
Joshuatree

 

Posts: 507
Joined: 12/30/2007
From: Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cockney

just to get this in.

Right Wright, write wright right, right. Right.



Thank you all for getting me very confused now

Haha, just kidding.

(in reply to cockney)
Post #: 842
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 5/15/2008 1:14:03 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Question re the Naval write ups:

Is anyone doing anything with the Amphibious and Transport counters? I assume there is no intention to do write ups for these (the Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth and the German Auxilaries excepted)? 

Also Steve - in Mech in Flames there are Monitors called Roberts and Roberts II. I can only see Roberts II on the Naval Unit Write Up Sheet. Can you let me know what ID no. Roberts should have please?

(in reply to Joshuatree)
Post #: 843
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 5/15/2008 3:49:06 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Question re the Naval write ups:

Is anyone doing anything with the Amphibious and Transport counters? I assume there is no intention to do write ups for these (the Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth and the German Auxilaries excepted)? 

Also Steve - in Mech in Flames there are Monitors called Roberts and Roberts II. I can only see Roberts II on the Naval Unit Write Up Sheet. Can you let me know what ID no. Roberts should have please?

As far as I know, nothing is being written about the amphibious and naval transport units.

As for the Roberts, perhaps Patrice knows.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 844
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 5/15/2008 4:25:11 AM   
wfzimmerman


Posts: 660
Joined: 10/22/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Question re the Naval write ups:

Is anyone doing anything with the Amphibious and Transport counters? I assume there is no intention to do write ups for these (the Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth and the German Auxilaries excepted)?

Also Steve - in Mech in Flames there are Monitors called Roberts and Roberts II. I can only see Roberts II on the Naval Unit Write Up Sheet. Can you let me know what ID no. Roberts should have please?

I think something could be written about the amphibious fleets of different countries. I would be glad to do this. Email me with info about which ones to do.

_____________________________

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(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 845
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 5/15/2008 5:34:36 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wfzimmerman


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Question re the Naval write ups:

Is anyone doing anything with the Amphibious and Transport counters? I assume there is no intention to do write ups for these (the Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth and the German Auxilaries excepted)?

Also Steve - in Mech in Flames there are Monitors called Roberts and Roberts II. I can only see Roberts II on the Naval Unit Write Up Sheet. Can you let me know what ID no. Roberts should have please?

I think something could be written about the amphibious fleets of different countries. I would be glad to do this. Email me with info about which ones to do.

Ok. Thanks.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to wfzimmerman)
Post #: 846
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 5/15/2008 7:39:42 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wfzimmerman


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Question re the Naval write ups:

Is anyone doing anything with the Amphibious and Transport counters? I assume there is no intention to do write ups for these (the Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth and the German Auxilaries excepted)?

Also Steve - in Mech in Flames there are Monitors called Roberts and Roberts II. I can only see Roberts II on the Naval Unit Write Up Sheet. Can you let me know what ID no. Roberts should have please?

I think something could be written about the amphibious fleets of different countries. I would be glad to do this. Email me with info about which ones to do.


Fred - could you let me see an example of what you have in mind when you`ve had a chance to do the first one? I would like to do the CW counters.

(in reply to wfzimmerman)
Post #: 847
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 5/15/2008 7:54:25 PM   
wfzimmerman


Posts: 660
Joined: 10/22/2003
Status: offline 		i haven't gotten started yet, but I think with the Commonwealth one could easily say some things about the CW's propensity for innovation in amphibious technology -- the floating tanks, the mulberries, etc -- and tie that to the later units. it might also be possible to say some things about doctrine.


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Post #: 848
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 5/15/2008 11:47:15 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		Here are some screen shots showing the results of Justin's work on unit names. I threw in a description of the 2nd Guards Cavalry since there was room.




Attachment (1)

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 849
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 5/15/2008 11:50:13 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		Here is what some of the German names look like. Only the 6th Pz Mot Eng has its name shortened. That is done by an automated routine I have in lpace that checks whether the name fits within the available vertical space. Justin has the name as 6th Pz Mot Eng, which is how it would look in any text message about the unit.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 850
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 5/15/2008 11:54:15 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		Here is a smattering of Commonwealth units. Justin has Aus/Can/SA and so on inserted into the names. I am not sure that is needed since the country abbreviation is shown on the right side of these units. But it doesn't usually cause problems. 21st Ind Mech is the only shortened by the program.

Note that the Militia units have nothing added to their names and the territorial units are all labeled Terr. Do you like the Afghan mountain unit about to take out Canberra?




Attachment (1)

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 851
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 5/15/2008 11:57:07 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		4th and last in series.

There are several odd ducks in the US unit list, so I showed them here. The artillery types (ART/AT/AA) do not have anything added to their names.

Many thanks to Justin for these improvements.




Attachment (1)

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 852
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 5/16/2008 12:16:10 AM   
Joshuatree

 

Posts: 507
Joined: 12/30/2007
From: Netherlands
Status: offline 		Looking great.

Shouldn't 'Das Reich' in the 2nd Guards Cavalry write up be: "Das Reich" ?
Also in the fifth paragraph; Guards cavalry --> Guards Cavalry

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 853
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 5/16/2008 12:18:32 AM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline 		Well, I agree this is not a ugly as I though it would be.

But...
Maybe the "st", "nd", "rd" and "th", should be deleted, as they take space and renders the digits harder to understand immediately, especially when the whole is written on a counter side. "3rd" "2nd" when written on a side first looks like a word to me, that I have to decode to "third" or "second". A single "3" or "2" digit would have been preferable.

Also, I wonder how this looks in lower levels of zooms. Isn't the overall large amount of gibbering small written text kind of spoiling the counter now, or does this reads nicely ?


Anyway, I'm so sorry that solution was chosen, I was so sure that the "type" addition would have been enough in forms that would have needed them, with filters so that it is not written unecessarily for ART, HQ or planes for example. Now the type are written twice, once in the "name" and once in the "type". We may see some interesting 2nd Arm Div ARM DIV or L Garr GARR in some places where names & types will be used. Before this was restricted to a couple of MAR & PARA units, now it has spread all over the countermix. Great.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 854
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 5/16/2008 12:21:47 AM   
Plainian

 

Posts: 212
Joined: 9/22/2006
From: Dundee in Scotland
Status: offline 		6th Pz Mot Engineer? So the unit is armoured and motorised? Never seen both unit designations together like this? Wonder what the German readers will make of this?

I'd prefer to see Gd for Guard rather than GD but thats just me.

I do like the use of different justification methods for unit descriptions. Shorter descriptions are centralised over the unit icon whereas long descriptions are centralised over the entire width of the counter. Very clever and it works very well Steve.



< Message edited by Plain Ian -- 5/16/2008 12:23:51 AM >

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 855
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 5/16/2008 1:38:03 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Plain Ian

6th Pz Mot Engineer? So the unit is armoured and motorised? Never seen both unit designations together like this? Wonder what the German readers will make of this?

I'd prefer to see Gd for Guard rather than GD but thats just me.

I do like the use of different justification methods for unit descriptions. Shorter descriptions are centralised over the unit icon whereas long descriptions are centralised over the entire width of the counter. Very clever and it works very well Steve.



Ah, a keen eye. Yes, that is how the centering is done. I wonder about it every once in a while, but changing that code holds zero interest for me.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Plainian)
Post #: 856
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 5/16/2008 1:41:21 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Well, I agree this is not a ugly as I though it would be.

But...
Maybe the "st", "nd", "rd" and "th", should be deleted, as they take space and renders the digits harder to understand immediately, especially when the whole is written on a counter side. "3rd" "2nd" when written on a side first looks like a word to me, that I have to decode to "third" or "second". A single "3" or "2" digit would have been preferable.

Also, I wonder how this looks in lower levels of zooms. Isn't the overall large amount of gibbering small written text kind of spoiling the counter now, or does this reads nicely ?


Anyway, I'm so sorry that solution was chosen, I was so sure that the "type" addition would have been enough in forms that would have needed them, with filters so that it is not written unecessarily for ART, HQ or planes for example. Now the type are written twice, once in the "name" and once in the "type". We may see some interesting 2nd Arm Div ARM DIV or L Garr GARR in some places where names & types will be used. Before this was restricted to a couple of MAR & PARA units, now it has spread all over the countermix. Great.


I will eliminate that if I know where it occurs. Before adding ARM DIV was needed to identify the unit, but it should no longer be necessary.


_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 857
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 5/16/2008 2:22:59 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wfzimmerman

i haven't gotten started yet, but I think with the Commonwealth one could easily say some things about the CW's propensity for innovation in amphibious technology -- the floating tanks, the mulberries, etc -- and tie that to the later units. it might also be possible to say some things about doctrine.

Warspite1

Okay - when you make a start please let me have a look at the kind of thing you intend to write - I just want to ensure we are on the same wavelength in the interests of uniformity.

(in reply to wfzimmerman)
Post #: 858
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 5/16/2008 4:26:37 AM   
michaelbaldur


Posts: 4774
Joined: 4/6/2007
From: denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

4th and last in series.

There are several odd ducks in the US unit list, so I showed them here. The artillery types (ART/AT/AA) do not have anything added to their names.

Many thanks to Justin for these improvements.






the american engineer is named : 2nd mtn div ..... isn´t that wrong

_____________________________

the wif rulebook is my bible

I work hard, not smart.

beta tester and Mwif expert

if you have questions or issues with the game, just contact me on Michaelbaldur1@gmail.com

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 859
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 5/16/2008 4:41:55 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur




the american engineer is named : 2nd mtn div ..... isn´t that wrong


Yes. In fact I had noticed that and Justin is fixing it. Stupid of me to put that unit on the screen shot.


_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to michaelbaldur)
Post #: 860
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 5/16/2008 4:44:26 AM   
michaelbaldur


Posts: 4774
Joined: 4/6/2007
From: denmark
Status: offline 		I got something right ....

_____________________________

the wif rulebook is my bible

I work hard, not smart.

beta tester and Mwif expert

if you have questions or issues with the game, just contact me on Michaelbaldur1@gmail.com

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 861
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 5/16/2008 10:14:02 AM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Plain Ian

6th Pz Mot Engineer? So the unit is armoured and motorised? Never seen both unit designations together like this? Wonder what the German readers will make of this?

I think that this unit should not be named 6th Pz Mot Engineer.
The wheels on this counter are here to show that it uses the mot hex costs, but that do not make it a MOT unit. It is an ENG unit. Calling it 6th Pz Engineer is better. Moreover this removes the weirdness that Ian has described.

(in reply to Plainian)
Post #: 862
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 5/16/2008 11:09:03 AM   
wosung

 

Posts: 692
Joined: 7/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Plain Ian

6th Pz Mot Engineer? So the unit is armoured and motorised? Never seen both unit designations together like this? Wonder what the German readers will make of this?

I think that this unit should not be named 6th Pz Mot Engineer.
The wheels on this counter are here to show that it uses the mot hex costs, but that do not make it a MOT unit. It is an ENG unit. Calling it 6th Pz Engineer is better. Moreover this removes the weirdness that Ian has described.



Ze German reader?

Well the combination of "armoured" and motorized in this case is, somehow, not exactly wrong.

Because armoured halftrack carriers (Skfz 250, 251 etc) were complicated, ressource-expensive vehicles, only a few of them could be built. Thus in most cases in a Panzer Div. only 1 out of 4 Grenadier Bat. were equipped this way (armoured). The other 3 Bats plus the Panzerpionier Bat. (armoured engineers) often were using trucks, confiscated from all German occupied Europe, lots of them French ones. Thus most sub-units of a Panzer Division (armoured Div) just tended to be only motorized.

Plus being severely outproduced in the second half of the war German units tended to demodernize, switching from truck back to horse. So even the label armoured engineer cavalry wouldn't be too far away from reality.

Besides, what is looking stranger to me is the Eng "Div" label. The biggest German Eng units seemed to be Brig.-sized (see the feldgrau.com webside, but no further info there). This would fit into the WIF Divsion/Brigade scheme. Other sources only refer to Regiment-sized Eng. units. And the Panzer Div normally only had Bat.-sized Eng. unit.

Regards


(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 863
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 5/16/2008 11:39:48 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wosung


quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Plain Ian

6th Pz Mot Engineer? So the unit is armoured and motorised? Never seen both unit designations together like this? Wonder what the German readers will make of this?

I think that this unit should not be named 6th Pz Mot Engineer.
The wheels on this counter are here to show that it uses the mot hex costs, but that do not make it a MOT unit. It is an ENG unit. Calling it 6th Pz Engineer is better. Moreover this removes the weirdness that Ian has described.



Ze German reader?

Well the combination of "armoured" and motorized in this case is, somehow, not exactly wrong.

Because armoured halftrack carriers (Skfz 250, 251 etc) were complicated, ressource-expensive vehicles, only a few of them could be built. Thus in most cases in a Panzer Div. only 1 out of 4 Grenadier Bat. were equipped this way (armoured). The other 3 Bats plus the Panzerpionier Bat. (armoured engineers) often were using trucks, confiscated from all German occupied Europe, lots of them French ones. Thus most sub-units of a Panzer Division (armoured Div) just tended to be only motorized.

Plus being severely outproduced in the second half of the war German units tended to demodernize, switching from truck back to horse. So even the label armoured engineer cavalry wouldn't be too far away from reality.

Besides, what is looking stranger to me is the Eng "Div" label. The biggest German Eng units seemed to be Brig.-sized (see the feldgrau.com webside, but no further info there). This would fit into the WIF Divsion/Brigade scheme. Other sources only refer to Regiment-sized Eng. units. And the Panzer Div normally only had Bat.-sized Eng. unit.

Regards



Perhaps the XX is wrong? XX denotes division, while X denotes brigade.

_____________________________

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to wosung)
Post #: 864
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 5/16/2008 12:13:27 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Perhaps the XX is wrong? XX denotes division, while X denotes brigade.

The XX is not wrong in game terms, WiF FE has ENG abstracted to DIV scale units. But as far as I know, no country has DIV scaled ENG units.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 865
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 5/16/2008 12:15:50 PM   
wosung

 

Posts: 692
Joined: 7/18/2005
Status: offline 		X Brigade would be more plausible.

Perhaps Jespher/Captain, or whoever is in charge for the write-ups of German land units has already done this particular one and knows more?

Regards

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 866
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 5/16/2008 1:49:24 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Perhaps the XX is wrong? XX denotes division, while X denotes brigade.

The XX is not wrong in game terms, WiF FE has ENG abstracted to DIV scale units. But as far as I know, no country has DIV scaled ENG units.






Attachment (1)

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 867
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 5/16/2008 2:54:47 PM   
wosung

 

Posts: 692
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Perhaps the XX is wrong? XX denotes division, while X denotes brigade.

The XX is not wrong in game terms, WiF FE has ENG abstracted to DIV scale units. But as far as I know, no country has DIV scaled ENG units.


Besides perhaps the USA, sort of. Wasn't there a local higher command for all the CBs and Army engineers in the Pacific late in the war (Tinian or Saipan)?!

Regards

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 868
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 5/16/2008 8:50:57 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Perhaps the XX is wrong? XX denotes division, while X denotes brigade.

The XX is not wrong in game terms, WiF FE has ENG abstracted to DIV scale units. But as far as I know, no country has DIV scaled ENG units.

Thanks.

Then I would say that using 'Div' is ok since it correctly matches the use of the term in the WIF rules.

I think of the additional text on the counters as redundant communication to new players about the units. So, instead of 1 with a NATO symbol of X and XX above the NATO symbol, the counter now has 1st Inf Div. I have been playing games that use the NATO symbols since Tactics II in the early 1960's, but I suspect players who are new to the war game genre, might find the extra text very helpful.

_____________________________

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 869
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 5/16/2008 9:08:06 PM   
Zorachus99


Posts: 1066
Joined: 9/15/2000
From: Palo Alto, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Plain Ian

6th Pz Mot Engineer? So the unit is armoured and motorised? Never seen both unit designations together like this? Wonder what the German readers will make of this?

I'd prefer to see Gd for Guard rather than GD but thats just me.

I do like the use of different justification methods for unit descriptions. Shorter descriptions are centralised over the unit icon whereas long descriptions are centralised over the entire width of the counter. Very clever and it works very well Steve.




I did a final pass on these units with special designations. Units such as Ariete no longer have the Inf Designation, and the Mot has been removed so that the engineer is now 6th Pz Eng. I'm expecting much less truncation. Units are all readable during setup

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(in reply to Plainian)
Post #: 870
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