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Operation Green Planet - 5/8/2008 8:36:05 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		7/3/43 to 7/7/43
 
Operation Green Planet: The Midway invasion forces are approaching the island and haven't encountered any resistance.  D-Day is set for June 9.  John's recon sighted the CV TFs on the 5th.  As best I can tell, John figured this was another feint (like the one I did a month ago) or a mission to strike his airfield.  He pulled out essentially all his aircraft.  Each day thereafter, I moved the CV TFs in an arc pivoting around Laysan Island, much as I did last time, and still no sign of Jap aircraft at Midway.  Most of the transport convoys - including at least 248 ships - are now just four hexes or so from the island, but the combat replay didn't show any Jap sightings.  Until three or four days ago, John had an arc of subs that might have picked up the transports, but he seems to have moved them south (but two subs at Laysan did pick off a supply AK).  The Japs sighted the mock invasion TF (perhaps 20 AKs, a few escorts, and CVE Long Island) well SW of Palmyra.  It has served its purpose, or it's purpose has expired with the Midway invasion imminent, so I've ordered it to proceed back toward Palmyra and the P-38 LRCAP that base affords.  I will be very interested in seeing if John sighted the Midway-bound transports tomorrow and whether he sends aircraft back to Midway.  There's a chance that the invasion force is large enough to threat to capture Midway on D-Day (due to the auto-attack), so maybe John doesn't wish to risk losing an airfield full of aircraft.

Operation Yellow Planet:  On the 7th, the Vietnam invasion troops at Lungchow received orders to march (all units set to follow a War HQ). This army includes one of the Indian engineer regiments freshly air-transported from Meiktila.  I hope this army is vast enough to take Hanoi and create some worry for John.  I want the scat to hit the fan as he deals with this offensive and Midway, plus Australia.

Australia:  Aussie units are probing the Jap defenses at Newcastle; and an Aussie army pushed back a Jap force (two small infantry and three armor units) west of Newcastle, sending these enemy units back toward Brisbane.  My sole hope here right now is apply pressure here too.

Aiding and Abetting the Enemy:  John mentioned that he had an exchange of some 50 posts on his AAR yesterday and got some "detailed" information about managing his economy.  This has puzzled me since the outset of the game.  John is a very experienced player.  I'm pretty green compared to him.  Yet he's seeking advice?  It just seems odd to me.

Map to Follow In Next Post

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 301
July 7, 1943 Map - 5/8/2008 8:37:10 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		As Operation Green Planet Approaches D-Day:




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 302
RE: July 7, 1943 Map - 5/8/2008 9:23:59 PM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline 		  Good luck tomorrow, Dan!

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 303
RE: July 7, 1943 Map - 5/8/2008 9:24:04 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		I'm one of the guilty parties that took a look at John's economy. He post his economy statistics at the beginning of every month and some issues seemed to come up. He sent me an older turn and I gave him some feedback (I just started a game vs Allied AI using this mod this week and he had earlier sent me info about the Japanese and what changes to make from day 1). He knows I would not say anything that actually effects the military side of the game. I'm just here as an economic consultant.  

Rest easy, I've played only the Allies to date in PBEM and there is a part of me hoping your gambit pays off.

_____________________________


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 304
RE: July 7, 1943 Map - 5/8/2008 10:03:21 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

As Operation Green Planet Approaches D-Day:





Wow...that is quite an impressive armada. As this is operation Green Planet you are going to need to purchase some serious "carbon-offsets".

Good luck. Save the endangered Gooneys of Midway!

I just tried to mouseover French Frigate to see what kind of airpower you had there

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 305
RE: July 7, 1943 Map - 5/8/2008 10:10:09 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Cap, thanks.  I don't know about Gooneys.  My men have been reading your AAR and were hoping for some o' them Boobys of which you've been speaking.

French Frigate is a level 1 airfield that's 96% to level 2.  It currently has one P-38 squadron and one F-5 squadron.  When it goes to level 2, I'll add some more.  Layson Island is a level 1.  It has two P-38 squadrons.  I don't think John likes P-38s and I wonder if that's what led him to begin pulling out of Midway Island when Layson went to level one not long ago.

If you think this armada is big, wait until Operation Red Planet.  It should have well over 500 ships.  There are a multitude of supply, fuel, and aircraft transport TFs, plus replenishment and ASW TFs, sitting at Midway, plus many more AKs and APs that will be loaded later.  In addition, all or nearly all of the undamaged ships returning from Midway will participate.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 306
RE: July 7, 1943 Map - 5/9/2008 12:49:29 AM   
Mistmatz

 

Posts: 1399
Joined: 10/16/2005
Status: offline 		Good luck canoerebel, probably tension for us readers didn't rose as much as it did for you, but I can tell you I'm also very keen on seeing the results of the upcoming operation.

Give him something like that:

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 307
Midway Invasion, Eve of D-Day - 5/9/2008 4:57:37 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		7/8/43
 
Operation Green Planet:  Most of the transport TFs moved within a hex of Midway, with a few stragglers a hex or two to the rear.  The CV TFs remain between Midway and Laysan Island, with CAP augmented by two P-38 squadrons.  John did not move his aircraft back to Midway, so LBA should not be a factor on D-Day. As I prepared for the big day, it seemed possible that John had elected not to contest the invasion.  But in an exchange of emails before I left for home, he said that Midway "could be interesting."  Thanks to that, now I won't rest easy until I get the next turn, and then I might be in for an unpleasant surprise.

The entire invasion force minus a single division is set to come ashore (that division is being held in reserve and will join the CV TFs).  This will include three Army divisions, 3rd Marine Division, two RCTs, combat engineers, tanks, artillery, and other support troops.  The transports are protected by a bombardment TF including two BBs, a CA, and two CLs. A small carrier force including two CVEs will also take position at Midway.  Since this force is in the forefront and doesn't have much aircover, I'm worried about it's exposure; but after weighing the risks and benefits as best I could, I decided to err on the side of protecting my main CV TFs by keeping them a little to the rear and under cover of that Laysan Island LRCAP.

Operation Red Planet:  SigInt reported several days ago that a Jap amphibious brigade is on a Maru heading for Manila.  The AV of this unit is less than 150, so it won't stop me from implementing Red Planet if (1) the Midway invasion goes well, and (2) advance scouting doesn't show Luzon strongly fortified.  If Midway turns out okay, Red Planet should get underway by early August.

Operation Yellow Planet:  My Vietnam invasion forces moved forward following an HQ, but I started them over again because the HQ moved 30 miles and the rest of the troops just 12.  I've scratched the "follow" command and just ordered all units to move forward a hex. I don't know if they'll cross the border tomorrow or not.  If they don't, and if Midway were to go atrociously, I might cancel the mission and wait until later.  Perish these gloomy thoughts.

(in reply to Mistmatz)
Post #: 308
D-Day, Midway - 5/9/2008 8:53:16 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		7/10/43
 
Operation Green Planet:  The invasion force arrived at Midway and encountered a vast minefield and shoreguns, but no Japanese ships or aircraft.  All of my TFs had minesweepers, but it seems that the shoreguns had orders to target minesweepers only.   My bombardment force did it's job and didn't take any hits to speak of, but I lost ten MSW and four SCs.  Then my transports began to unload in the midst of the minefield.  Here's the damage inflicted:  Minor Damage to 18 AKs and 8 APs; moderate damage to 9 AKs and 4 APs; heavy damage to 1 AK and 1 AP.  Of these, only the heavily damaged AP is likely to sink.  My troops came ashore and the shock attack (against 5th Independent Brigade, a coastal gun unit, and 2 engineers behind 9 forts) came off at 2:1, dropped forts to 7, and inflicted 1552/34 on the Japs, while the US troops suffered 2200/44/3.

Here's where my inexperience hinders me.  I don't know if the mines and shoreguns will be as devastating on the second turn.  Operating on the assumption that they could be, I'm pulling back all damaged ships and many transport TFs and ordering them to rendezvous with the carrier TFs.  If Midway falls tomorrow (not likely, I think), I will order the ships back to Midway.  If Midway doesn't fall, I'll send the damaged ships back to Pearl Harbor.  I think most or all of the ships that suffered minor damage could take part in upcoming Operation Red Planet.

I've also ordered my small carrier TF (two CVEs) at Midway to pull back and join the main carrier fleet.  However, their Hellcats will fly LRCAP over Midway.

A few transport TFs will remain at Midway and continue unloading.  This includes the TFs carrying the combat engineers and 3rd Marine Division.

U.S. troops on the ground have an AV of about 950, which should increase somewhat tomorrow prior to the next attack.  It may take awhile to overcome the defense this way.

There was no sign of Jap ships or aircraft, but John transferred in about 50 aircraft - all bombers, it seems.  I am somewhat concerned that he may now commit his carriers and combat ships, hoping to capitalize on the wounds caused by his mines and shoreguns.  That's why I've adopted a pretty conservative, defensive posture for tomorrow.

Summary:  To this point, the damage to my transports is manageable, but I'm a little uncertain about how to go about getting more troops ashore (if needed) without incurring significant damage.  I'll know more after tomorrow.

Operation Red Planet:  At this point, still on.  I'll have to evaluate how the damage to my transports affects my ability to carry what I need, but I think I'm okay.

Operation Yellow Planet:  The Chinese will cross the border into Vietnam tomorrow.

China:  The Japs seem to be gathering for a move on Wuchow, but I'm not very worried about that at this point.  The Chinese at Wuchow have an AV of 2900 with 9 forts, and I have three more units with a combined AV of 1300 just a few hexes west.  I'm sending one to Wuchow, and another half-way.

Burma:  Status quo for now.  I'm awaiting arrival of the Indian parachute regiment (due in about 40 days).  Too, I'll soon renew the air war over Rangoon.  I think John has withdrawn enough troops from Rangoon to allow the resumption of attacks as soon as the Allies attain air parity or superiority.  I think that may be just a month or so down the road.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 309
RE: D-Day, Midway - 5/9/2008 9:05:43 PM   
anarchyintheuk

 

Posts: 3921
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		The mines were probably unaffected. MitP isn't fun.

The shore guns are probably disabled/disrupted to an decent extent.

You'll shock attack if you unload any troops tomorrow. Don't know if you want to rest them due to disruption or if they're good to go.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 310
RE: D-Day, Midway - 5/9/2008 9:18:34 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

The mines were probably unaffected. MitP isn't fun.

The shore guns are probably disabled/disrupted to an decent extent.

You'll shock attack if you unload any troops tomorrow. Don't know if you want to rest them due to disruption or if they're good to go.


Agreed. Judging from the huge number of mine hits, you are dealing with thousands of mines and given the big MSW losses, I doubt you dented the minefields that much. His shore guns will have suffered from the bombardment and your land attack. I'm not sure it does any good to pull out damaged transports unless they need to get back to port to prevent sinking. He will likely have subs lying in waiting to get your cripples anyway. I a sense it is desirable that a damaged AK take a second mine rather that an undamaged one take a 1st mine.

If you land any troops on day two, you will trigger a shock attack. Probably best to go ahead with the landing unless your force ashore is too beat up to help. You achieved a good result on day with with 2:1 and fort reduction. It really sounds like it is best to go full speed ahead. Invasion interruptis is very unpleasant. It may even cause urological problems later one. Take Midway if you can then you can dock the transports to unload and avoid most of the mines.

If you have BB's with full ammo, bombard the airfield at night to kill some of the bombers he flew in.

(in reply to anarchyintheuk)
Post #: 311
RE: D-Day, Midway - 5/9/2008 10:22:38 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		Dan, I only know from the experience of having several atolls invaded by my opponent recently. I had mines in all of them, CD guns in some.

CD GUNS: In general, the effectiveness drops way off after turn 1. That's my experience.
MINES: Also drops off, not as significantly however. You will still get hits. One thing my opponent figured out: Try sending the MSW's into sweep as a Transport TF, NOT a MSW TF. They won't get targeted by the shore guns, but will still sweep mines.

I would keep unloading, unless your troops are SO tired. But figure that his are disrupted as well. Plus, if you get lucky you'll capture those Bomber Pilots.

Oh, and I would Bomb/Bombard the crap out of the airstrip if you are not going to already, as previous poster said. Particularly at night, you can stop that Bomber attack before it starts.

_____________________________


(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 312
Midway, D-Day Plus 1 - 5/9/2008 10:31:49 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		7/10/43
 
Green Planet:  Thanks for the pointers, gents, but I had already sent the turn prior to making the last post.  Your predictions were accurate - the mines ate up my ships.  Nine SCs, two LCIs and an AK went down with many more APs and AKs damaged.  Out of all the carnage to my transports, however, I may only lose that one AK and the one AP that was badly damaged yesterday.  Some Japs Bettys sortied from Midway, but 18 Hellcats took care of them.  This Allied shock attack came off at 5:1, dropped forts from 7 to 2, and cost the Japs 1447/76 to 1612/52/8.  Midway should fall tomorrow.  I have a large base force on the island already, so the airfield should be operational immediately.  This operation has exacted a toll, but not an exhorbitant or crippling one, and taking Midway eliminates a big area that was under Jap control.

Red Planet:  After sorting through available ships, replacing the AKs damaged at Midway won't be a problem.  Replacing APs will be more of a challenge, but I think I have enough 7200 capacity AKs at San Fran to pull it off.  The loss of the MSWs shouldn't be a factor since Red Planet relies upon surprise.  I don't think John will foresee a move on Luzon.  He shouldn't have time to mine those ports heavily.  My ground troops will be fine, and none of my combat ships and carriers have taken damage yet.  The biggest concern is the enemy carriers.  I had hoped that Midway would bring on a carrier engagement that the Allies would win, because I don't want to take them on during Red Planet, but I may not have a choice.

Yellow Planet:  The Chinese have crossed the border.  They will rendezvous a hex north of Hanoi and then move on that city, which has ten units some 61,000 strong. 

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 313
RE: Midway, D-Day Plus 1 - 5/9/2008 11:02:49 PM   
anarchyintheuk

 

Posts: 3921
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Needless to say, if you ever see his MLs go to great lengths to kill them.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 314
Midway Taken - 5/10/2008 3:47:32 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		7/11/43 and 7/12/43
 
Midway:  The Allies took Midway on the 11th after a 5:1 shock attack and transferred in fighters, SBDs, and patrol aircraft.  After another Allied attack, this on the 12th, three of the four Jap units succumbed to attrition and disappeared.  That leaves the Jap brigade to defend the island, but it won't hold out long.  I had posted a thread to ask for confirmation that mines "switch sides" when a hex is taken.  When the consensus was, "Yes, they do" I sent the damaged US transports to Midway to dock.  Apparently, mines don't change sides, or at least not unanimously, because I had another thirty or so mine hits.  Ouch.  Despite the damage to my transports, Operation Green Planet went pretty well.  Midway is just the 8th base reclaimed by the Allies to date.

Australia:  The Jap garrison at Newcastle, includng 2nd Division, is withdrawing towards Brisbane.  They were threatened with being surrounded as Australian forces move north towards Brisbane on the inland road.

Vietnam:  The Chinese troops moved 23 miles on the road to Hanoi, so the river crossing may take place in two days.  The Chinese have AV 7,000; I hope that's enough to overwhelm the defenses before John can send reinforcements.

China:  The Japs have moved across the river to threaten Yenen.  In a few days, I will probably evacuate Yenen and head for Sian since the former is out in the open and therefore subject to being surrounded and cut off.

Operation Red Planet:  SigInt reports 2nd Area Army on transports heading for Legaspi, and Imperial Guards Divison on transports heading for Soerabaja.  For the first time in months, John's aircraft hit Iloilo, so he finally may have decided to deal with that outpost.  I had hoped that Red Planet might catch so much of the Japanese army in their advanced positions that John would have a tough time retrieving them and repositioning them where
they were needed, but John embarked on a strategic withdrawal before I could implement my plan.  Red Planet is still "on go" for early August.  If the Japs take Iloilo or other developments prompt a change, I think the alternative will be Blue Planet rather than a sudden change to Red Planet to strike an alternative target like Eniwetok, Marcus, or Iwo.

The Planet Names:  When I first thought about invading Luzon, the idea was that the Allies were going to strike out deep into "space" and establish a self-supporting "colony" on a "distant planet."  This colony would have sufficient supplies, fuel, ground units, and aircraft to ward off any counterattack and to hit Jap shipping in the South China Sea.  IE, it was as if I was going to colonize Mars.  The alternative plan, invading Hokkaido in the farn northern reaches of the Pacific, took the name Blue Planet.  Green Planet was at first a sham name I used in hopes of throwing John off, but it later got assigned to the Midway operation.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 5/10/2008 3:49:27 PM >

(in reply to anarchyintheuk)
Post #: 315
RE: Midway Taken - 5/10/2008 4:48:43 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		Dan, sorry I didn't chime in on that post, other than to say that captured Mines are harmful to the Japs.....but to you too. They are harmful for EVERYONE. On the bright side, you can now sweep them without getting creamed by CD guns.

_____________________________


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 316
Battle of Hanoi - 5/12/2008 2:55:24 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		7/13/43 to 7/16/43
 
Operation Yellow Planet:  On the 13th, the Chinese army crossed the river and attacked the Japanese defenses at Hanoi, missing a 2:1 by just 12 points.  Here's the combat report: 

Allied Shock attack 
Attacking force 266245 troops, 655 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 7542 
Defending force 69840 troops, 647 guns, 506 vehicles, Assault Value = 1298 
Allied max assault: 7708 - adjusted assault: 4736 
Japanese max defense: 1290 - adjusted defense: 2374  
Allied assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 9)  
Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 8

Japanese ground losses:
3619 casualties reported
Guns lost 55
Vehicles lost 5

Allied ground losses:
2920 casualties reported
Guns lost 133

That was close too close, but now the Japs have brought in reinforcements and the task will be much tougher.  I think this will devolve into a long seige.  I wanted Hanoi quickly, but more importantly is the overall objective of trying to create a hot-spot so that John (hopefully) isn't relaxed and thinking about the Philippines.

Operation Red Planet:  The Japs are paying more attention to Iloilo, unfortunately.  Zeros visit every day, and even more ominously Babs from Manila are now reconning the base.  If he moves on this base in the next two weeks, I'll probably have to scrub Red Planet.  The Allies currently have 17 carriers at Pearl (4 CV, 5 CVL, and 8 CVE).  CV Bunker Hill and CVL Cabot are on the way from Panama City; and CV Lexington will arrive at San Francisco in just 10 days.  Red Planet could get under way in about 17 days.  The biggest obstacle right now is getting the infantry and Marine units back from Midway to Pearl to rest up and re-load.

Jap CVs:  A Mini-KB moved into the ocean east of New Zealand and sank on of the scattered AKs delivering 2nd Marine Air Wing to Auckland.  So John apparently hasn't consolidated all his CVs, which would be a good thing for Red Planet or Blue Planet.  I'll continue to send ships toward New Zealand to keep John's interest up.

Australia:  Having reclaimed Newcastle, the Aussie's are unsure whether they ought to move on Brisbane yet. 

Burma:  Quiet here as the main points of friction (Rangoon, the hex to the north, and the hex to the north of Pisanoluke) remain contested and at stand-offs at the moment.

Analysis:  If the Allies still hold Iloilo in a month (long enough for the invasion force to sail from Hawaii, bypass Marcus, and approach Luzon), Red Planet will take place.  If the Japs take Iloilo, I'll probably scrub the operation in favor of Blue Planet (invasion of Hokkaido) or possibly something different. 

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 317
Operation Violet Planet Postponed - 5/13/2008 4:32:42 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		7/17/43 to 7/21/43
 
Operation Violet Planet:  There is no such thing; this is another sham operation.  The heading is intended to reinforce any notion that John might have that my Midway invasion has hampered my ability to mount another invasion in the near future.
 
Operation Red Planet (Invasion of Luzon):  CV Lexington will arrive in San Francisco in three days.  I'm busy retrieving divisions from Midway and returning them to Pearl, where I have four "ready to go" at the moment.  I want to take 6 or 7 with me.  The Japs haven't moved on Iloilo yet, so things are still set to kick off in about 10-15 days.

Operation Yellow Planet (Invasion of Vietnam):  The Chinese are good and bogged down at Hanoi with a sharp decline in AV.  I don't think I can take Hanoi in the short term.  The best I can hope for is to create some noise to give John reason to pay attention to this area.  Soon, the Allies should be able achieve air parity or superiority and then I will have a better chance to create real pressure, both here and at Rangoon.

Burma:  John has significantly reduced his defenses at Rangoon, from a high of AV 4800 and 225k troops, to about 2100 AV and 110k troops at present.  The Allies have more than twice as much, plus another 2800 AV a hex to the north.  When the Allies get air superiority, which should be pretty soon now, the campaign for Rangoon will begin in ernest.

China:  A Jap advance division moved into Yenen and got repulsed easily.  John has some 9 units a hex north of Yenen.  I'll fight for the city for awhile, but ultimately I'll probably pull back to Sian.  John can make some headway here, but once again looming Allied air superiority should make it difficult for him to accomplish much.  Elsewhere it is quite at the moment, although John has ten units spread between the two hexes east and NE of Wuchow; at some point I expect a move on this city.

Australia:  The Jap 4th Division is just south of Brisbane, and 20th Division is east of Broken Hill; so the Japs are still present in some force in Australia.  I'm temporarily pulling back my units towards the safety of my main lines around Newcastle, Sydney, and Melbourne until I get a better feel for whether John is truly pulling out of Australia, maintaining a strong presence, or possibly even planning a surprise offensive.

Jap High Command:  I'd like to know what John is thinking right now.  He damaged a ton of Allied transports at Midway; does he think my ability to transport troops has been crippled?  Does he believe Wake or Marcus to be the next likely targets.  Were recent troop deployments in the Philippines small-scale readjustments of his deployments, or is he actively considering the possibility of an Allied invasion?  Why hasn't he seized Iloilo?

Allied High Command:  Red Planet is a risky operation, but it has become even more clear that I can't afford a methodical or predictable offensive; I don't need a series of Midway-like encounters with well-prepared defenses.  Iloilo is the real key to Red Planet.  I can base recon aircraft and some P-38s there and possibly send in some reinforcements by APD when my main invasion force draws close to Luzon.  So I would have much better information about the defenses than I would if I struck a position where I didn't have the ability to recon.  I put the odds of success at 40%, but it will be an interesting operation.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 318
RE: Operation Violet Planet Postponed - 5/13/2008 5:06:29 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		Dan, interesting read as always. I love the false intel. Your choice of bizarre colors is going to screw with his mind. How about Fuschia or Chartreuse Planet?

What is your tactical plan for taking Luzon? Luzon has many landing points, and it is nearly impossible to contest "on the beach". You know better than I, but I would land at large airbases at Appari or Laong, and I would also grab Batan Is. as a side operation. Batan is not likely to be well defended, if at all, and would give you another significant airfield right off the bat. You could even grab it at D-Day - 1, and provide start unloading your LBA.

The other alternative is Naga/Legaspi, but I don't like that. If he does have troops on Luzon (which I think is unlikely in strength), they could decend quickly on those spots. Also, the terrain is tougher up north, easier to resist counterattacks.

What LBA will you pack? I imagine lots of Corsairs and DB's. Can you stage P-38s from India/Burma/China? How about B-24s? You may have thought of this, but I would load some Corsairs onto CVE's for quick unload.

You will really need those Reserve CVE's for this operation. The one thing that would collapse the whole operation is if John attacked you over and over with A/C on the trip to Luzon, and degraded your CAP enough to start getting hits. You will need a port to replenish your planes, so there will be a good 10 to 14 turns where he can attrite your CAP. On the bright side, he would have to commit to losing hundreds of pilots in that strategy.

_____________________________


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 319
RE: Operation Violet Planet Postponed - 5/13/2008 6:01:26 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		QBall,

Aparri is target numero uno, with some of the nearby ports possibilities as secondary targets.  Some kind of on-map intel revealed that John has 3 units at Aparri, which caught me by surprise.  I'll know more when I stage in the F-5s to Iloilo (a few days or a week prior to D-Day). I hadn't though of Bataan Islands, but I'll look at that.  I want to seize Baguio as quickly as possible, because it is inland and therefore immune from bombardment.

I will be bringing alot of crated aircraft including alot of P-38s, Corsairs, and SBDs. They are already crated in transports at Pearl Harbor.  Yes, I can stage in aircraft from CBI, including P-38s, recon aircraft, and more bombers.  I think I may be able to air transport in some ground troops from China once I take Laoag and Aparri.

All CVEs (with the possbile exception of Long Island) will accompany the invasion, including several loaded with the replenishment Hellcats and Avengers.  I don't think I've figured out how to set up this kind of replenishment program.  I tried a mock run at Midway and it didn't work.  I created some replenishment TFs with AOs and the CVEs.  These TFs accompanied the main carrier TFs.  But when those TFs lost a few Hellcats to operations, I wasn't able to replenish them.  Am I doing something wrong?

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 320
RE: Operation Violet Planet Postponed - 5/13/2008 7:16:36 PM   
saj42


Posts: 1125
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Somerset, England
Status: offline 		If the CV squadrons are set to accept replacements then they 'should' pull a/c from the CVEs.
Mind you I haven't had recourse to rely on it yet myself

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 321
RE: Operation Violet Planet Postponed - 5/13/2008 8:30:16 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

QBall,

Aparri is target numero uno, with some of the nearby ports possibilities as secondary targets. Some kind of on-map intel revealed that John has 3 units at Aparri, which caught me by surprise.


I would bet though that most units you will see through intel, at this stage, are probably base force and construction units. That's why this is really interesting strategy; I don't think he will have significant ground forces there. He absolutely should be building bases and forts by now, which is why I would expect engineer units, but the only reason to base troops there now (assuming he is NOT expecting this invasion), would be as a ready-reserve at Manila. Given all the ground he has to cover way out into the Pacific, how many troops could possibly be there? He has large concentrations at Rangoon, Moulmein, Hanoi, Australia, plus garrisons at how many islands in the Pacific?

Iolio or no, I can't imaging you losing this on the beaches. You will get ashore. Your calculations have to revolve around how you STAY ashore, specifically can you prevent him from unloading reinforcements at Manila. Do that, and Luzon is easily yours. That is assuming you bring a truly massive convoy of supplies, which I bet you are.

I think you are better off landing "blind" in Luzon than on Hokkaido. I would continue with this operation even if he wipes out Iolio. But maybe that's just because I want to watch.......


_____________________________


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 322
RE: Operation Violet Planet Postponed - 5/13/2008 9:35:08 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Jap High Command:  I'd like to know what John is thinking right now.  He damaged a ton of Allied transports at Midway; does he think my ability to transport troops has been crippled?  Does he believe Wake or Marcus to be the next likely targets.  Were recent troop deployments in the Philippines small-scale readjustments of his deployments, or is he actively considering the possibility of an Allied invasion?  Why hasn't he seized Iloilo?


John likes to retain an isolated Allied base in the PI to help trian his pilots. It's analogous to a raptor holding a squirming rabbit in her talons and letting her brood peck at it a bit before it dies.


quote:


Allied High Command:  Red Planet is a risky operation, but it has become even more clear that I can't afford a methodical or predictable offensive; I don't need a series of Midway-like encounters with well-prepared defenses.  Iloilo is the real key to Red Planet.  I can base recon aircraft and some P-38s there and possibly send in some reinforcements by APD when my main invasion force draws close to Luzon.  So I would have much better information about the defenses than I would if I struck a position where I didn't have the ability to recon.  I put the odds of success at 40%, but it will be an interesting operation.


I am looking forward to it. John will think you are headed for Wake...then Marcus...then Iwo Jima. I am not going to miss it. If it doesn't work you will have even more readers just for the looky-loo value

It is a wild idea...recon during the invasion determining the plan It reminds me of Lee's invasion of Maryland and Pennsylvania....of course, we all know how that turned out.

Dont send anything to Iolio until it is absolutely clear that is your destination...you dont want him taking the place before you get there if he deduces your destination. Why not add a feint toward Iwo Jima? It will take him a while to figure out why some of your ships kept going West.


BTW ...does he have recon aircraft at Iwo and Marcus and Saipan? Do you have a chance of sneaking through undetected?

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 323
RE: Operation Violet Planet Postponed - 5/13/2008 11:24:57 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks, gents, for the encouragement and suggestions.  Many of these things are already underway:

1)  The Allies have the following supply TFs at Pearl Harbor already loaded:
    a) Five replenishment TFs with 320,000 tons of fuel.
    b) Four tanker TFs with 492,000 tons of fuel.
    c) Four supply TFs with 303,000 tons of supplies.

2)  I hope that won't be all, but I'll have to wait to see if I have any transports left over after loading my troops.

3)  The plan is to move on Marcus, then side-step toward Iwo Jima.  Both bases now support level four airfields.  Cap, I'm sure he has recon aircraft at both bases.  However, I sent a "picket" AK west of Midway about ten hexes and it has remained there undisturbed for a week.  Two more will be heading west shortly.  They may help me choose a route of "least detection."

4) There is some chance that John may empty the airfields (as he did at Midway) fearing that an invasion shock attack might take the island on the first turn.

5)  After making my faints, I'll move toward Luzon.  At this point, I will be surprised if we haven't had a major carrier engagement.  In fact, it's probably better that I have one by then rather than facing John's carriers and LBA in the Philippines.  He's got alot of small base forces there, and appears to have a larger one at Legaspi (since 80+ Zeros each turn are striking Iloilo).

6) By the time my fleet bypasses Marcus and Iwo, John should have serious suspicions and concerns about the Philippines and Iloilo.  That's when I'll transfer in P-38s and F-5s and see what I can do to hold the base while the invasion force is closing in on Luzon.

I haven't detected any signs of unusual build-up or activity in the PI yet.  There have been transfers of some base forces and engineers there, plus that one amphibious unit that has an AV less than 150.  And, as you pointed out QBall, he has serious concentrations of units at the perimeter - at least two divisions in Australia, and mixed brigades at island bases like Papete, Dutch Harbor, etc.  Since I just moved on Midway and moved on Wotje earlier in the game, John may think the Marshalls, Wake, or Marcus are the most likely targets.

CV Lexington arrived in San Fran.  She'll stay there a day to swap obsolete aircraft for good ones, and then move toward Pearl Harbor tomorrow.  In a way, that will be the beginning of Operation Red Planet.

P.S.  Cap, funny that you mentioned the Civil War analogy.  An hour ago I was mountain biking and thinking about Red Planet; I wondered whether all my rationales for undertaking it would be analogous to Burnside's rationales for moving on Fredricksburg, or if instead it might be like Lee's plan to divide his outnumbered army at Chancellorsville.  I hope it's the latter:  a calculated risk that catches the enemy by surprise and unprepared.


P.P.S. Two seconds after posting this, John posted an AAR update titled "Backing up the inner perimter." Holy cow, not only is he thinking about this kind of thing, he's using the same language that I've been using in my AAR. Well, if he figures out Red Planet, then I've simply lost to a better player.


< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 5/13/2008 11:32:46 PM >

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 324
RE: Operation Violet Planet Postponed - 5/14/2008 1:58:09 AM   
anarchyintheuk

 

Posts: 3921
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Dallas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

P.S.  Cap, funny that you mentioned the Civil War analogy.  An hour ago I was mountain biking and thinking about Red Planet; I wondered whether all my rationales for undertaking it would be analogous to Burnside's rationales for moving on Fredricksburg, or if instead it might be like Lee's plan to divide his outnumbered army at Chancellorsville.  I hope it's the latter:  a calculated risk that catches the enemy by surprise and unprepared.



I hope the Burnside analogy doesn't apply to Red Planet . . . an excellent maneuver but he forgot something important (the pontoon bridge in Burnside's case).

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 325
RE: Operation Violet Planet Postponed - 5/14/2008 11:12:02 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		7/22/43 to 7/29/43
 
As the time to launch Operation Red Planet nears, unsettling developments are forcing me to re-evaluate my options.  Kind Readers, please refrain from replying to this post.  While your comments and insight have been most welcome, I want to avoid generating alot of AAR traffic that might alert John to the fact that something is up.

Red Planet:  After all this time, John invaded Iloilo on the 29th.  49th Division and 1st Amphibious Brigade arrived, took some licks from shore guns, but got firmly establsihed.  He'll outnumber me about four or five to one, so there's no chance of holding the base.  That takes away a key factor that led to the rationale behind Red Planet.  Without it, I lack the ability to reconnoiter just prior to the invasion, plus the distraction that an Allied base with P-38s and F-5s would have created.  The invasion forces are gathering at Pearl Harbor - CVs Lexington and Bunker Hill will arrive in two to three days - and I'll be ready to go in a week.  At this point I'm considering three options:  (1) Proceed with the invasion of Luzon; (2) Invade Iwo Jima instead; or (3) Switch to Operation Blue Planet and invade Hokkaido.  I may even consider other options over the next few days, but those are the most likely.  I'd favor Iwo Jima, but that should be the most probable of the three targets in John's mind.  On the other hand, I do have three AK "picket ships" posted well west of Midway - 12 or 13 hexes in an arc - and so far no sign of Jap awareness.  If that continues to hold true, the invasion force could proceed pretty far before detection.  I'll mull all of this over.

Australia/NZ:  Quiet.

Burma:  Quiet.  In Thailand, John has reinforced his "outpost" a hex north of Pisanoluke.  He has 55th Division, part of another division, and two tank units there.  He tried a deliberate attack on the 29th but got repulsed, losing 848/20/2 to 153/4.  He'll need more to push back the three Chinese units, which are fighting in forested terrain, but even if he did push me back I wouldn't be concerened since this is nothing more than a place where I'm hoping to apply a little pressure.

China:  John continues to gather troops near Wuchow - he's up to 12 units split between the two hexes to the east (true east).  but the defense is 3500 AV with 9 forts, plus another 400 AV within a couple of day's march, so I don't think he'll accomplish anything here.  To the north, John has units all over the place at and to the east of Yenen.  I think he's trying to flank Yenen, but I have troops in most of the hexes.  He'll have to cross a river to attack.  I'm not sure what's going to happen here, yet.

P.S. The request that readers refrain from replying is temporary - I figured the Iloilo news would generate "traffic" that might alert John that something big was up. I'll rescind the request tomorrow.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 5/15/2008 12:23:09 AM >

(in reply to anarchyintheuk)
Post #: 326
RE: Operation Violet Planet Postponed - 5/15/2008 5:38:06 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		7/30/43 and 7/31/43
 
Please don't reply to this post.  The temporary ban on chatter remains in effect until the Japs sight the invasion TF.
 
Midway:  A Jap CL/DD TF arrived at Midway on the 31st, but I had seen her coming the day before; so there were plenty of PTs boats to greet her.  The Japs lost three DDs and didn't penetrate the PT boat screen.  These ships came from the Aleutians, where there have been several recent sightings of Jap combat vessels cruising the seas.  I don't think Johh has offensive aspirations in that area - I get the feel that he may be stomping around trying to see if he flushes any game (IE, he's trying to figure out if the Allies are planning an offensive there).  Fortunately, John's raid on Midway didn't occur a a week later when he might have stumbled into my invasion TF; nor has he sighted the picket AKs west of Midway.

Red Planet:  Some troops transports began loading on the 1st.  I have four full-strength divisions, and three more that are still recovering from losses or disruption incurred during the Midway invasion.  I began loading three divisions, and three aviation regiments, then began wondering whether I woud have nearly enough ships to handle what I want to take.  After loading these six units, plus with another 75-100 ships already loaded with supplies, fuel, and aircraft, I still have 186 AKs and APs in port, not to mention several score LSTs and other troops transports.  So there should be enough room despite the ships lost or damaged at Midway.  CV Lexington is on the way in from San Fran in a small TF with a BB, DD, and DE and stumbled across a Jap sub just NE of Pearl; fortunately the sub seemed to sight only the DD and DE.  All 22 U.S. CVs will be in port tomorrow.

Of the three alternatives, Luzon remains the target of choice, with Iwo Jima and Hokkaido trailing in that order.  I won't have to make a final decision until I approach Iwo.  By then, a major carrier clash might have occurred, impacting on the decision.

I think the invasion fleet will get underway in three or four days.

Operation Violet Planet:  This code name has been assigned to the British move on Sumatra or Java.  The British TFs are gathering at Colombo.  This move will be timed to coincide with Red Planet to create a second hot spot.

China:  The Japs showing major signs of moving on Wuchow, Yenen, and possibly trying to cut off the troops at Yenen or Honan.  The Chinese are reacting, moving a few troops in response.  At this late date in the war, I think the Japs will have a difficult time, because the Allies should soon have the types and numbers of aircraft that permit them to assert control over selected areas, at least defensively.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 327
RE: Operation Violet Planet Postponed - 5/16/2008 4:38:40 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		8/1/43 and 8/2/43
 
Operation Red Planet:  Lord have mercy, I've been loading transports at Pearl Harbor the past three days and the amount of record-keeping is enormous.  I'll make a detailed list of the TFs, troops, and cargo embarked next post.  Suffice it to say, the invasion force is massive.  Most TFs should weigh anchor tomorrow, rendezvouing a few hexes NW of Pearl where I can get everything organized and make sure I have everything I intended to take.  I think I would have taken the entire Allied forces had there been enough transports, but I was pleasantly surprised at how much I was able to load.  All those 7200 ton AKs made up for the transports lost or damaged during the Midway invasion.  The transport fleets will sail NW passing Midway just to the north.  At present, I plan to send the carriers NW passing Midway just to the south.  All forces will rendezvous just west of Midway.

Luzon:  SigInt on the 2nd reveals 8th Tank Regiment is loaded on a Maru heading for Manila.  It's almost as if John can read my mind.  Early in the game, I posted some thoughts about invading Sumatra, and over the next few weeks had SigInt reports of Jap units moving to ports in Sumatra.  Since then, I don't think I've had a single report of troops moving to Sumatra.  Now I get signals of units moving to Luzon, plus John finally takes Iloilo just as I'm getting ready to embark.  He's got me pegged.  Very frustrating.

Operation Violet Planet:  The Royal Navy and transports have arrived at Colombo to begin loading.  Likely target is southern or western Sumatra.  This force will include 3 CVs and a CVL.

Australia: Quiet as the Allies aren't yet pressing on the Jap main line of resistance (Adelaide/Broken Hill/Brisbane).  I will advance to coincide with Violet Planet and Red Planet just to create a hot spot.

Burma:  Quiet.  John has seriously reduced his Rangoon garrison, but I'm not taking offensive action until I control the skies.

China:  Waiting to see how John unleashes his North China campaign.  Jap troops are spread out - three Jap divisions and several Mongolian cavalry divisions are besieging Yenen, and many more units are in hexes to the southeast.

Aiding and Abetting the Enemy:  I had a message from another player and from John yesterday that this other player was going to help John with his economy.  I protested.  This level of help - plus the advice John tells me he gets in his AAR - really surprises me.  He is a very experienced player against a (comparative) novice and has kicked my butt throughout the game.  Now I'm way, way behind (17,500 points to something like 42,500) and the odds against the Allies mounting a comeback are quite long.  And he's getting help?  I thought this was a one on one game.  It's like Bobby Fischer beating up on some highschool chess champion and then getting advice from Garry Kasparov and Anatoly Karpov.  What the heck?

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 328
RE: Operation Violet Planet Postponed - 5/17/2008 6:56:48 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		8/3/43 to 8/7/43

Thanks: Thanks to all of you for honoring my request for no posts; please continue to refrain for the time being. The invasion is underway now and the next two weeks of game time should determine the outcome of the war. The absence of "chatter" on this AAR will help me keep things "low key" until John gets the first invasion sightings.

Red Planet: The transports began leaving Pearl Harbor four days ago, steaming slowly (to allow a few still loading to join up) NNW under cover of LR CAP. The carriers will depart Pearl on the 8th. A full roster of the carrier and combat TFs is listed at the end of this post. Tomorrow, I'll edit this post, or simply add a new post, listing all transports, troops, material, and auxilliary forces involved.

Thus far there are no signs of unusual Jap activity in the vicinity of Midway. An Alf did sight one of my picket AKs about four days ago, but I moved that ship and there haven’t been any further sightings. I wonder what John made of that, though.

In a piece of good luck, SS Rasher put a torpedo into CVL Chitose four hexes NE of Truk on the 3rd. That should be the fourth Jap carrier out of action (Hiyo and Junyo permanently; Chitose and Shoho temporarily).

Violet Planet: The RN invasion fleet continues loading at Colombo. I don’t have as much infantry as I would like, but it should be enough to gain a solid hold in Sumatra (assuming, of course, that John commits fully to thwarting Red Planet).

Burma: More Jap units arrived at the hex north of Pisanoluke. Augmented by two parachute regiments, the Japs launched a shock attack on the 5th at 2:1 odds, but lost 1385/27/1 to just 145/4 and failed to dislodge the three Chinese units. I hope this little battle will continue to draw Jap attention.

China: A Jap tank regiment crossed the river and entered the hex south of Yenen, but a Chinese unit bloodied it and drove it back the next day.

Red Planet "Accounting": I plan to keep detailed notes about this invasion - exhaustive perhaps. This is more for my reading pleasure than anything else. If this invasion goes badly, the game could end. I'd hate to see eight months of constant play end without something (this AAR) to show that it happened.

Red Planet Roster:

I. Carrier Fleet

a. Six CV TFs (each with a CV, CVL, and BB) totaling 98 ships.
b. Combat TF (BBs Washington and Massachusetts, 4 CLs, 10 DDs)

II. Protection TFs Embedded with Transport TFs

a. Combat TF 1 (BBs Maryland and Pennsylvania, CA, 3 CL, 5 DD)
b. Combat TF 2 (BB Mississippi, CA, 3 CL, 10 DD)
c. Escort carrier TF (3 CVEs, BB, __ DDs)

III. Transports (to be updated tomorrow)

IV. Replenishment (to be updated tomorrow)

V. Auxiliary TFs (to be updated tomorrow)





< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 5/17/2008 7:01:43 AM >

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 329
RE: Operation Violet Planet Postponed - 5/17/2008 7:13:40 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		No Regrets
 
As Operation Red Planet gets underway, I realize the enormity of the risk I'm taking; come what may, I have no regrets about the operation or about several other recent decisions:

1.  Had I been able to get underway a month ago, I could have taken advantage of Allied possession of Iloilo, and John had several less fightings units on Luzon; but I decided to wait on the additional carriers (CVs Bunker Hill and Lexington and CVL Cabot).  I think the extra carriers are crucial (at least to my comfort level).

2.  I'm really glad the Allies seized Midway.  While the operation cost me alot of precious transports and roughed up some infantry units, it converted thousands of square miles of Pacific Ocean to Allied control, eliminating the need to sail wide around the island.  I can refuel at Midway, remain under LR CAP a few days out from there, and can fall back there if things turn sour early.  By my reckoning, Midway was a tremendous success (even though John did a masterful job creating a bushwacking by mines).

3.  There is now way the Allies could get back in the game by conducting a series of Midway-like operations.  Too bloody; too slow.  Luzon represents a chance to claw my way back into the game and put John in a difficult position.  I put my chances of success at about 30-40%, but considering how far behind I am that's reasonable.

Onward!

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 330
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