CynicAl
Posts: 327
Joined: 7/27/2001
From: Brave New World
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Read carefully:
"US fleet CVs actually repelled most kamikaze strikes with minor (or no) damage, except when they had armed and/or fueled aircraft aboard"
Notice the qualifier? One photo of a burning US CV does not a coherent argument make. Nor does a list of all US ships damaged by kamikazes - especially since most of those on your list were DDs, DEs, or transports, which isn't particularly relevant, now is it? Quoting Admiral Vian, who for all his good points wasn't aboard any US CVs when they were struck by kamikazes and therefore has no basis for comparison, also doesn't cut it. What you need is a list of all kamikaze strikes on US and UK fleet CVs (no, CVEs don't count for a couple of reasons) together with extent of damage received as well as any unusual circumstances. Then you'll have a basis for comparison.
That list would look quite a bit like this one, compiled by Tony DiGiulian of warships1:
USS Enterprise CV-6
14 May 1945: The "Big E" suffered her last wound of World War II when a suicide plane destroyed her forward elevator, killing 14 and wounding 34 men. The carrier sailed for repairs at Puget Sound Navy Yard, arriving 7 June 1945. Repairs were slowed at the end of the war but completed on 13 September 1945 after which time she took part in "Operation Magic Carpet."
The RN CVs didn't have armored elevators, so an armored CV wouldn't have helped. Three months to fix, with work "slowed" for the last month.
Essex CV-9
25 November 1944: A kamikaze hit the port edge of her flight deck striking planes ready and fueled for takeoff, causing extensive damage. 15 killed and 44 wounded. The damage was quickly repaired and she was back with the 3d Fleet off Luzon supporting the occupation of Mindoro during 14-16 December 1944.
Less than three weeks to get this "badly damaged" CV (according to your own list) fully repaired and back on the line, even with the extenuating circumstance of burning aircraft. Note that the damage was caused by what happened on the flight deck, not by anything penetrating the deck.
Intrepid CV-11
1) 30 October 1944: A burning kamikaze crashed into one of the carrier's port gun tubs killing 10 men and wounding 6. Resumed flight operations within hours.
2) 25 November 1944: Hit by 2 kamikazes within five minutes, killing 11. Intrepid suffered no propulsion casualties nor left her station in the task group. In less than 2 hours her crew had extinguished the last blaze. Intrepid headed for San Francisco the next day, arriving 20 December for repairs. Rejoined the fleet in mid-February 1945.
3) 18 March 1945: A twin engine "Betty" exploded about 50 feet off Intrepid's forward boat crane. Flaming gasoline and plane parts started fires on the hangar deck but these were quickly extinguished.
4) 16 April 1945: Kamikaze struck Intrepid's flight deck. The engine and part of her fuselage right on through, killing 8 men and wounding 21. In less than an hour the flaming gasoline had been extinguished and within 3 hours after the crash planes were again landing on the carrier. Repaired San Francisco 19 May to 29 June 1945.
1- didn't hit the flight deck (lack of armored deck irrelevant), "resumed flight operations within hours." 2 - never lost station, within 2 hours the fires were under control; full repairs took about a month (note that it was nearly a month each way to and from San Fran). 3 - didn't go through the flight deck, but rather through the open hangar; minor fires, no interruption of service. 4 - an armored deck might have helped here; regardless, Evil I resumed flight operations within 3 hours and was fully repaired in six weeks.
USS Franklin CV-13
1) 9 October 1944: Kamikaze hit on Franklin's deck abaft the island structure, slid across the deck and into the water on her starboard beam. This strike resulted in minor damage with no interruption to flight operations.
2) 30 October 1944: ... Struck by a kamikaze which hit the flight deck and broke through onto the gallery deck, killing 56 and wounding 60. ... Repaired at Bremerton 28 November 1944 to 2 February 1945.
3) 19 March 1945 (This damage is not kamikaze related but is included here for reference): Struck by two semi-armor piercing (SAP) bombs. One struck the flight deck centerline, penetrating to the hangar deck, igniting fires on the second and third decks as well as knocking out the combat information center and airplot. The second hit aft, tearing through two decks and starting fires which triggered ammunition, bombs and rockets. Franklin, within 50 miles of the Japanese mainland, lay dead in the water, took a 13 degree starboard list, lost all radio communications and had massive fires. The casualties totaled 724 killed and 265 wounded. Franklin was taken in tow by the cruiser USS Pittsburgh until she managed to work up enough steam to make 14 knots. Franklin proceeded to Pearl Harbor on her own power where temporary repairs permitted her to sail to Brooklyn, NY, where she arrived on 28 April 1945. During repairs, everything from the hangar floor up, except the island and forward flight deck, was removed and replaced. As she was surplus to requirements following the end of the war, she did not resume flight operations and was decommissioned to reserve on 17 February 1947...
1 - skidded off the flight deck, minor damage, no interruption of operations. 2 - armored deck probably would have helped this one (that's two so far); one month to fix. 3 - bad luck that bomb hitting in a magazine; but would an armored flight deck have helped? Against an AP bomb of a heavier weight than the RN CVs were designed to withstand?
USS Ticonderoga CV-14
21 January 1945: Kamikaze crashed through her flight deck abreast of the No. 2 5-inch mount with a bomb exploding just above her hangar deck. Several planes stowed nearby were caught in the explosion and set on fire. The ship took a on 10-degree list to starboard. Captain Kiefer instituted a unique damage control operation by instructing the damage control party to continue flooding compartments on Ticonderoga's port side until she took on a 10-degree list to port. This swing from a starboard to a port list neatly dumped the burning planes overboard. Shortly after this, a second kamikaze struck the carrier's starboard side near the island. This bomb set more planes on fire, riddled her flight deck, and injured or killed another 100 sailors, including Capt. Kiefer. The crew brought her fires completely under control not long after 1400, about two hours after the first Kamikaze hit. Sent to Puget Sound Navy Yard where she arrived on 15 February. Repairs were completed on 20 April 1945 and she departed the next day to rejoin the fleet, striking at the Marshall Islands in early May.
An armored deck might or might not have helped with the first hit, but would not have mattered against the the second. Note the modifier (burning aircraft) in full effect; still fully repaired in two months.
USS Randolph CV-15
11 March 1945: While anchored at Ulithi, a "Frances" twin-engine bomber hit Randolph on the starboard side aft just below the flight deck, killing 25 men and wounding 106. Repaired at Ulithi, Randolph joined the Okinawa Task Force on 7 April 1945.
As always, an armored flight deck doesn't help if the enemy doesn't hit the flight deck.
USS Lexington CV-16
5 November 1944: Off Luzon a Kamikaze struck near her island, destroying most of the island structure and starting multiple fires. Within 20 minutes major blazes were under control and she was able to continue normal flight actions. Repaired at Ulithi and back in action 1 December 1944.
Yet again, the island isn't the flight deck. Flight ops resumed after 20 minutes, repairs took just a couple of weeks at a forward base.
USS Bunker Hill CV-17
11 May 1945: Severely damaged by two suicide planes which started large fires. Casualties were 346 men killed, 43 missing, and 264 wounded. Fully repaired at Bremerton from June to September 1945. Used in "Operation Magic Carpet."
And from the DANFS: "On the morning of 11 May 1945, while supporting the Okinawa invasion, BUNKER HILL was hit and severely damaged by two suicide planes. Gasoline fires flamed up and several explosions took place. The ship suffered the loss of 346 men killed, 43 missing, and 264 wounded." Gasoline fires and explosions again; an armored deck would not have been especially helpful in fighting (or preventing) those fires.
USS Hancock CV-19
1) 25 November 1944: Antiaircraft fire exploded a Kamikaze plane some 300 feet above the ship but a section of its fuselage landed amidships and a part of the wing hit the flight deck and burst into flames. The fires were quickly extinguished and no serious damage was inflicted.
2) 7 April 1945: Kamikaze spun across the flight deck and crashed into a group of planes while its bomb hit the port catapult. 62 men were killed and 71 wounded. The fires were out within a half hour and she resumed flight operations in less than an hour. Hancock was detached from her task group 9 April and was sent to Pearl Harbor for repairs. She was back in action on 13 June 1945.
1 - the non-armored flight deck did just fine against this one. 2 - the flight deck did fine against this one, too - but the parked aircraft on the deck burned; repairs again took about a month, allowing for transit time.
USS Belleau Wood CVL-24
30 October 1944: Shot down a "Jill" Kamikaze which fell on her flight deck aft, causing fires and setting off ammunition. 92 men were killed or missing. After temporary repairs at Ulithi during 2-11 November, Belleau Wood was sent to Hunter's Point for permanent repairs and an overhaul, arriving 29 November. She departed San Francisco Bay back to the fleet on 20 January 1945.
A) Not quite a fleet carrier, B) the flight deck wasn't penetrated, again, the burning fuel and ammo on deck were what hurt her, C) under two months for full repairs.
USS Cabot CVL-28
25 November 1945: Kamikaze crashed the flight deck on the port side, destroying or disabling several AA guns and a gun director. A second Kamikaze was shot down but struck close aboard, showering the port side with shrapnel and burning debris. Cabot lost 62 men killed and wounded but she continued to maintain her station in formation and operate aircraft as temporary repairs were made. Sent to Ulithi for permanent repairs, arriving 28 November and returning to action 11 December 1944.
A) Not quite a fleet carrier, B) yet again the flight deck wasn't penetrated, C) no interruption in flight ops, D) less than two weeks for full repairs at a forward base.
Also note that ships which returned to stateside yards also got a full refit while they were in, including all the latest electronic gizmos, any fire-control or fighter diretion updates, etc., which stretched repair times by a week or two.
And, on the British side (still from Mr. DiGiulian's list):
(Note:
According to D.K. Brown, RCNC, Kamikaze hits marked * might not have pierced even an unarmored flight deck while for the ones marked ** the armored flight deck was invaluable. Hits not marked did not strike the flight deck.)
HMS Indefatigable
1 April 1945: Struck by a Zero carrying one 250 kg bomb. Hit starboard side of island. Deck indented over 15 square feet by up to 2 inches but not penetrated. Intense fire, but quickly brought under control and extinquished. Out of action for fifty minutes.* Repairs took one month.
Repairs took a month. Where have I heard that before? Oh yeah - those "flimsy" US carriers. And if you'll note the note, those "flimsy" US ships could be expected to do just as well in this case.
HMS Illustrious
6 April 1945: Kamikaze struck a glancing blow to the island and inflicted negligible damage but its bomb exploded alongside underwater, inflicting severe structural damage. No interruption to flight operations.
"... severe structural damage." I believe I mentioned the warped hull and destroyed shaft previously. In contrast to US ships, this damage never was made right, and the ship was able to make no better than 19 kts for the rest of her career.
HMS Formidable
4 May 1945: Struck by a Zero carrying one 250 kg bomb which caused a 2 foot square hole and a 24 x 20 foot depression in the armored flight deck. Some structural damage was inflicted and three fragments penetrated the hanger deck with one going through a boiler room and into the double bottom. Out of action for five hours.**
9 May 1945: Kamikaze strike killed one and wounded eight. Deck depressed 4.5 inches with a supporting beam distorted by 3 inches. Heavy fire inflicted in parked aircraft. Out of action for 25 minutes.* Repairs from both hits took one month.
1 - "structural damage" again. This is where Formidable was permanently reduced to a 23 kt ship; I wonder about Mr. Brown's definition of "invaluable." 2 - structural damage and fire; repairs took a month (again with the month), though as with Illustrious she never was quite right again.
HMS Indomitable
4 May 1945: A Kamikaze struck next to the island and inflicted casualties of 8 killed and 51 wounded as well as destroying 8 aircraft. No serious damage inflicted to the ship.
Note the lack of asterisks indicating a flight deck hit - ie, no reason to think this hit would have been any more serious for a US flattop.
HMS Victorious
9 May 1945: Struck by three kamikazes. The first hit the deck alongside the island and skidded into the sea where its bomb exploded, inflicting no damage.* The second hit the flight deck at Frame 30 between forward lift (elevator) and "B" 4.5-in mount. This created a 25 sq. ft. hole and depressed the deck over an area of 144 sq. ft. In addition, a bulkhead was buckled, an accelerator [a type of aircraft catapult] broken and small fires were started.** The third kamikaze hit the port side but inflicted no damage. Victorious was able to fly off planes one hour later and could land planes twelve hours later. Fully back in action after two days. Repairs took one month.
The first kamikaze hit at a shallow angle and bounced off; and would almost certainly have done the same on a US CV (as per the note). The third hit the side of the hull, but Victorious was luckier than Illustrious. The second caused a fair bit of damage, requiring two days to be returned to action and a month in the yard to fully repair.
The RN CVs stayed on station because they had to - the RN didn't have any to spare for long trips home for refits. USN CVs which, if necessary, could have been patched up "enough" at a forward base (ie Ulithi), or even stayed on the line, went home for the full treatment because the USN could afford to pull ships out of the line.
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