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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008

 
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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/13/2008 3:45:46 PM   
Historiker


Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline 		So why do you think, Podolski and Klose have moved to Germany when they were childs? Perhaps because they Silesians?
Very interesting how some of you react when a German wishes his relatives good luck. Would the reactions be the same when Syrians whish Jordanians good luck, or when the Scandinavians hurray each other?

Instead of being happy about a "Piefke" whishing his team luck, the Austrian's posts here are embittert and full of malice. But that seems to be something typical for our relationship. We whish them just the best and some years ago, they were even called "the better Germany", as Economy was stronger and the unemployement rate lower there - but all that comes in return is unfriendly...

As usual. In 1938, they hurrayed Hitler, they voted with a vast majority to be a part of Germany. The population gave the Wehrmacht soldiers flowers and hundreds of thousands came to see Hitler in Vienna and to greet him and show how enthusiastic they were about the Anschluß.
Later, the percentage of Austrians in the SS was significant higher than their percentage of the population. There were also much more austrian war criminals than one would expect according their small number.
Nevertheless, in 1945, they immediately called themselves the "first victim of hitler"...
It seems like everyone has his own way to work up his nations history...


Well, I guess the reaction of a Croat must be influenced by the enormous pride that their team managed to beat us, that every sportsmanship is forgotten. I think it wasn't just me who talked only good about your team...

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Post #: 301
RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/13/2008 4:00:22 PM   
Zond


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

...

Well, I guess the reaction of a Croat must be influenced by the enormous pride that their team managed to beat us, that every sportsmanship is forgotten. I think it wasn't just me who talked only good about your team...


Cmon dude, relax, no need to drag politics into this. Let's keep this thread clean.

And don't try to sell me the crap about sportmanship, whole German public was more than cocky and arrogant before the match.

Since we aren't on Vulcan, emotions move in front of logic and rational (during the Euro)

Again no need for heated discussions, tournament moves on, there are new matches to enjoy!

Relax once again, have a Bier!





< Message edited by Zond -- 6/13/2008 4:07:35 PM >

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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/13/2008 4:10:57 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		Zond, but your argument is wrong, in my opinion. Podolski moved to Germany when he was 2 (I think). He is the product of German Football. Polish football has nothing to do here. Right, the talent has to be there (but no one borns saying "I want to have talent"; it's a lottery). And talent alone is NOT enough... They usually say "talent is the 20% and 80% is hard work". And "work" was done in Germany. Had he moved to Germany when he was let's say 17 or 18, we might say that "most part of the credit goes to Poland, because that's where the player was formed". But again, he is the product of German football.

< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 6/13/2008 4:13:12 PM >

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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/13/2008 4:20:50 PM   
Historiker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Zond, but your argument is wrong, in my opinion. Podolski moved to Germany when he was 2 (I think). He is the product of German Football. Polish football has nothing to do here. Right, the talent has to be there (but no one borns saying "I want to have talent"; it's a lottery). And talent alone is NOT enough... They usually say "talent is the 20% and 80% is hard work". And "work" was done in Germany. Had he moved to Germany when he was let's say 17 or 18, we might say that "most part of the credit goes to Poland, because that's where the player was formed". But again, he is the product of German football.

It's not only that, he hasn't moved to Germany for no reason.
He and his family came to Germany as "Spätaussiedler", that means as repatriates of German origin. With the ius sanguinis in Germany, he IS German and always was! That doesn't mean he can't be and feel Polish as well. Of course, this is his choice (and the question of laws, community, etc...) - but by both logic and law isn't he one of this usual "bought internationals".
The same for nearly all of the German players, all of them have at least on German parent. The only one who isn't a German after the old ius sanguinis is Gerald Asamoah. His parents are both Ghanans and he was born in Mampong in Ghana. He didn't come to Germany before he was 12 which started a huge discussion in Germany about him, when he was nomineed first for the national team.
IMO, as long as he feels German, identifies himself with my motherland and wants to be a part of it and just the best for it - why not?

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Post #: 304
RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/13/2008 4:26:58 PM   
Zond


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Zond, but your argument is wrong, in my opinion. Podolski moved to Germany when he was 2 (I think). He is the product of German Football. Polish football has nothing to do here. Right, the talent has to be there (but no one borns saying "I want to have talent"; it's a lottery). And talent alone is NOT enough... They usually say "talent is the 20% and 80% is hard work". And "work" was done in Germany. Had he moved to germany when he was let's say 17 or 18, we might say that "most part of the credit goes to Poland, because that's were the player was formed". But again, he is the product of German football.


As i stated on the end of my post (Disclaimer - joke) i was joking .

Regarding Podolski, Klose and others - i don't have anything with that . I'm not from Poland, doesn't affect me ,they made their choices, life goes on. No need to cry over spilled milk.

As you said, Germany provided Podolski everything (social welfare, health insurance, education) and logically he made reasonable choice - to play for Germany. No argument on that.

We have something similair in Croatia. For instance, Australian born Croats Josip Skoko, Zeljko Kalac and Mark Viduka decided to play for Australia. Anthony Seric and Josip Simunic decided opposite and they choose Croatia as their national team. Ivica Vastic, Croat, decided to play for Austria, since he become a football name in Austria. Josip Webber and Branko Strupar, Croats also, decided to play for Belgium (Webber on WC 1994) since they were also the best players of Belgium.

And also we have cases of Niko and Robert Kovac (born in Germany - they choosed Croatia), Mladen Petric (similair situation as Podolski - he moved to Switzerland as a small kid but also decided to play for Croatia) or Ivan Rakitic (born in Switzerland, played for U-21 Switzerland national team and then decided to play for Croatian national team.



< Message edited by Zond -- 6/13/2008 4:29:29 PM >

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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/13/2008 4:28:29 PM   
Zond


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

IMO, as long as he feels German, identifies himself with my motherland and wants to be a part of it and just the best for it - why not?



And that's the whole point! Applicable to every other nation/situation.

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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/13/2008 5:50:33 PM   
Nixuebrig

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zond
When looking through statistics you can see names like Yakin, polish bloke called Podolski and a certain Ivica Vastic?




Jep, all complicated names compared to the typical croatian name Eduardo

Disclaimer: Just kidding ;) And getting angry remembering that brutal foul which stole him this tournament

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Post #: 307
RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/13/2008 5:57:26 PM   
Zond


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prince

Jep, all complicated names compared to the typical croatian name Eduardo

Disclaimer: Just kidding ;) And getting angry remembering that brutal foul which stole him this tournament





Yep, pitty bout' the foul, we would be at least 20% more deadlier with him in starting 11.

But good news, his recovery goes smooth and soon he will join Arsenal for preseason training.

And also a said news from Austria, 20 yrs old croatian supporter died before the Croatia - Germany match of a heart attack. Apparently, the fever pitch was just too strong for him. RIP

< Message edited by Zond -- 6/13/2008 6:00:49 PM >

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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/13/2008 6:28:00 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		And I am going to miss the Italy vs Romania too: at work and on CABLE TV. Otherwise I could watch it the same

But I won't be missing France vs Holland. Then I'll be back and lecture Dixie

< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 6/13/2008 6:29:04 PM >

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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/13/2008 6:33:21 PM   
Zond


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

And I am going to miss the Italy vs Romania too: at work and on CABLE TV. Otherwise I could watch it the same

But I won't be missing France vs Holland. Then I'll be back and lecture Dixie


Well if you have reasonable Internet connection at work you can watch the game via http://jlc-software.com/?page=internet_tv.html

Really neat piece of software.

Just choose country & channel and you're ready to go!

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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/13/2008 6:35:38 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		You're the man, Zond. Many thanks

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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/13/2008 7:13:27 PM   
Historiker


Posts: 4742
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Status: offline 		And the Spaghettis start to show that one mustn't forget them, yet!

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Post #: 312
RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/13/2008 8:01:15 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		Yes, Historiker, excellent first half. Italians clearly want to win this match. Well it's yes or yes anyway. And the referee's assistant is from now on Persona Non Grata in Italy. Tony's goal was legal (the 2 central defenders were between him and the GK). Ah, the mythical referee's "decisions". Who does not hate the "man in black"?

P.S.: I managed to see the match. An internet Chinese channel (CCTV-5) did that for me. I don't know what the commentators are talking about but who cares

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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/13/2008 8:15:25 PM   
Historiker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus
I don't know what the commentators are talking about but who cares


Search for radio broadcasts in your language. We have i.e. B5 aktuell, a Radio station that is live on every game germany does. You then might watch the chinese while you liste to an internet radio...


Romania scores

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Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

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Post #: 314
RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/13/2008 9:31:57 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		Excellent, excellent, excellent Romania. In one of my posts I have said that [from what I read] they could be the underdogs of this Euro Cup... and... this could be true But many things can happen in this group...

EDITED: Historiker, the problem is the lack of synchronization between audio and video i.e. a team is attacking [video] and the radio speaker [audio] shouts (2 seconds before they score) GOOAAAAAL! Been there, done that

< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 6/13/2008 9:38:07 PM >

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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/13/2008 11:47:35 PM   
Dixie


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Status: offline 		Good times for the Orange Machine   I told you they would beat France   Shame I was wrong about Italy   Oh well, the game between France & Italy should be a cracker 

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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/13/2008 11:53:04 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		"But I won't be missing France vs Holland. Then I'll be back and lecture Dixie" -- Tullius Detritus a.k.a. Myself

HAHAHAHAHAHA! Amazing stuff. AMAZING! No one can stop these guys! No one. Or who do you think can do that? Germany? Portugal? The poor things

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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/14/2008 12:01:27 AM   
Dixie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

"But I won't be missing France vs Holland. Then I'll be back and lecture Dixie" -- Tullius Detritus a.k.a. Myself

HAHAHAHAHAHA! Amazing stuff. AMAZING! No one can stop these guys! No one. Or who do you think can do that? Germany? Portugal? The poor things


Holland will probably, as usual, implode in the quarter/semi-final They won't get past Spain IMO...although I hope I'm wrong. Their attacking football is good to watch, Robben's goal was good from such a tight angle, but their defence wasn't really tested much....

I feel that Italy will win against France, for my money France look as though they will struggle Aside from occasional brief flourishes they looked short on ideas in attack.

The next arguement among the experts will be, were Holland particularly brilliant tonight, or were France below the standards we have come to expect...



quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus
Dixie, I suspect the French are going to massacre Holland. Don't tell anyone


I could say something, but I think an army of smileys says it all I realise I am leaving myself open for a counter attack should Italy bugger it up though...

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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/14/2008 12:21:04 AM   
thegreatwent


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Status: offline 		This is a great year for surprises, specially those guys in orange

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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/14/2008 12:48:13 AM   
Historiker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

"But I won't be missing France vs Holland. Then I'll be back and lecture Dixie" -- Tullius Detritus a.k.a. Myself

HAHAHAHAHAHA! Amazing stuff. AMAZING! No one can stop these guys! No one. Or who do you think can do that? Germany? Portugal? The poor things

Not a Germany as we've seen it yesterday. And I'm quite unsure who could stop them now, they are REALLY strong! Portugal may stop them, but in this case, we are thrown out - and so I'm against that option as well
So I hope for the all time classic finale: Germany vs. Holland

quote:


Holland will probably, as usual, implode in the quarter/semi-final They won't get past Spain IMO...although I hope I'm wrong. Their attacking football is good to watch, Robben's goal was good from such a tight angle, but their defence wasn't really tested much....

Quite possible - but it'll be very interesting!

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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/14/2008 12:54:25 AM   
Dixie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

Not a Germany as we've seen it yesterday. And I'm quite unsure who could stop them now, they are REALLY strong! Portugal may stop them, but in this case, we are thrown out - and so I'm against that option as well
So I hope for the all time classic finale: Germany vs. Holland


Unless Germany improve a lot this isn't likely, you won't get past Portugal I'm afraid. And if by some chance they do meet Holland in the final, on current form Germany are likely to get ripped apart. Your defence is far too slow to cope with the majority of the Dutch line-up.

Portugal vs Spain is most likely in the final. Holland 3rd, Croatia 4th. I'd prefer to see Ze Germans beat Portugal though, mostly so that Man Yoo Dancing nancy boy Ronaldo is finally off of my TV for a short time

< Message edited by Dixie -- 6/14/2008 12:55:30 AM >

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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/14/2008 12:55:40 AM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		I really can't see how the Spaniards could stop them... after all, Fench and Italian midfielders are stronger than the Spanish (not to mention that the latter always "implode in quarters"), and er... they could not stop the guys in orange


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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/14/2008 12:57:43 AM   
Dixie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

I really can't see how the Spaniards could stop them... after all, Fench and Italian midfielders are stronger than the Spanish (not to mention that the latter always "implode in quarters"), and er... they could not stop the guys in orange



I hope I'm wrong It's always better to see a team that plays attractive football win

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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/14/2008 1:02:56 AM   
Historiker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

Not a Germany as we've seen it yesterday. And I'm quite unsure who could stop them now, they are REALLY strong! Portugal may stop them, but in this case, we are thrown out - and so I'm against that option as well
So I hope for the all time classic finale: Germany vs. Holland


Unless Germany improve a lot this isn't likely, you won't get past Portugal I'm afraid. And if by some chance they do meet Holland in the final, on current form Germany are likely to get ripped apart. Your defence is far too slow to cope with the majority of the Dutch line-up.

Portugal vs Spain is most likely in the final. Holland 3rd, Croatia 4th. I'd prefer to see Ze Germans beat Portugal though, mostly so that Man Yoo Dancing nancy boy Ronaldo is finally off of my TV for a short time



You mustn't weight that game from yesterday too much. If you've seen the games in the last two years, you know that Germany can do better. Against Croatia, they looked like they've taken tranquilizer and hoepfully, that's the last time for Euro 2008.

You are absolutly right about our defence. Even if it's playing good, it isn't something special and if it plays bad...

With Gomez, Klose and Podolski, we have enough power to score against Holland as well, and the Dutch defence didn't look too strong today as well - but as I said: Usually, you're right. But still, it's football which means you can calculate nothing - and don't foregt, who's the master of penalty and who's the nation that "if it plays good, it get's world champion, if it plays bad, it'll be in the finale"...

Nothing's lost, yet so I'm still hoping . Usually, Austria doesn't have a chance against us especially as we need to play good and our players want to shwo what they can do.
So we'll meet Portugal at the quaters which doesn't change a thing as we would have met it in the half finale otherwise. To get into the finale, we must beat Portugal - in which finale is unimportant...

well, we'll see...

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Post #: 324
RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/14/2008 1:04:54 AM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		ANYWAY, there is another possibility. In case Romania fails (who knows), either France or Italy would be on quarters. AND in theory a final Holland vs France/Italy would be possible, just like on the past Euro Cup. Both Portugal and Greece were on the same group and met again on the final. That would be a MEGA Revenge

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Post #: 325
RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/14/2008 1:06:56 AM   
Historiker


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From: Deutschland
Status: offline 		no. This time, the teams of one groop already meet again at the half finale!

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Post #: 326
RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/14/2008 1:37:41 AM   
pauk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prince


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zond
When looking through statistics you can see names like Yakin, polish bloke called Podolski and a certain Ivica Vastic?




Jep, all complicated names compared to the typical croatian name Eduardo

Disclaimer: Just kidding ;) And getting angry remembering that brutal foul which stole him this tournament



So, how the Cro-Ger game ended?

(disclaimer: im not joking)


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Post #: 327
RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/14/2008 1:42:00 AM   
Historiker


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From: Deutschland
Status: offline 		It was quite interesting that the Croation fans shouted "Ustascha, Ustascha" under the game.
I didn't know that you still have so many Nazis in your country...


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Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

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Post #: 328
RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/14/2008 2:03:33 AM   
Zond


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

It was quite interesting that the Croation fans shouted "Ustascha, Ustascha" under the game.
I didn't know that you still have so many Nazis in your country...



Me neither.

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Post #: 329
RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/14/2008 2:06:23 AM   
Nixuebrig

 

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Status: offline 		Very impressing prefomance by the dutch again.

When they hold on on this, theay will surely win. But htey played like this before in 74 and 78 and lost in the finals.
Hope they keep their form and win this tournament, after the firste two games they realy deserved it.


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