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New Player's Observations: - 6/6/2008 9:25:53 PM

morgansurname

Posts: 90
Joined: 8/30/2004
Status: offline

Howdy.

Not sure how many folks are still playing CoG or if there will be future patches, but I thought I would drop by and add a few notes and comments to the forums.

Overall, I think the game is excellent! The ability to run all or only selected departments of your nation is quite nice. The names that an Old Grognard expects to see are mostly all in game (though with several obvious ommissions). And the rating/experience system for units seems sound. To make the game better, I would offer the following:

1. Attitude of nations seems to change if fleets (or maybe fleets with attatched ground forces) move to the sea areas adjacent to the affected nation's coastline. I noticed this while attempting to reinforce Gibraltar from Kent (running Great Britain of course). This is unrealistic. Perhaps a thin coastline area could be added that would adjust the attitude. Otherwise, it would be more fitting to do away with this affect all together. The Oceans are very massive places ;).

In fact, maritime policies were very leanient during these times. I am not saying that a British Fleet could expect a warm welcome in a Spanish port, however, ships in need of repairs, water, food, etc. were typically free to resupply and repair in any port anywhere around the world (though under suspiscious eyes to be sure).

In short, it is plain silly for say Portugal to suddenly have a -200 attitude towards Britain because of a fleet and an army sailing around her coast to a British port.

2. Depots at sea? Odd. A better example would be to allow depots to be built right on a fleet. Perhaps recquiring a transport fleet to represent the enourmous amount of supplies necessary to support a land force at sea.

3. While playing France on human and all others on computer, standard game, 23 year duration, normal difficutly, normal powers, I was unable to declare war on Spain (or Spain on France either). For over a decade, Spain marched her armies through France to attack Russia, Prussia, Austria, and even Turkey. Several ultimatums were given and this worked as intended. However, when the Declare War option is clicked, there is no confirmation screen and the game continues as was. There is no option under the right click on Spain panel to Declare War either. Spain had cancelled the alliance with France fairly early on, and though I kept a diplomat with charm in Madrid until I was ready to turn to the West, I never was able to fight the Spaniards. I also allowed the attitude of Spain to slip from a bright yellow smile to a frowning red face, but to no avail.

4. The ability to liberate and create protectorates from both nations conquered and ceded is not available. Tyrol is also not able to be added to Bavaria. I as France had conquered Brunswick and had Saxony and Magdeburg ceded from Prussia. I also received a protectorate from Moldavia and later received the remaining Warsaw nations from Prussia as part of a second war's terms. As conqured nations, none of these areas had the necessary L (Liberation) or P (Protectorate) buttons on the view nations screen. (although the Subsidise and Declare War buttons were present). I even tried to declare war on Saxony and try again, but after saying yes to the declare war confirmation screen, nothing had changed. Furthermore, under Saxony on the view nation screen, the description for Saxony still read "Prussian Protectorate".

5. Not being able to detach units from National armies such as Batavia, Bavaria, and Italia is bothersome. On several occasions, I had added divisions to the Army, but was not allowed to redploy them elswhere at a later time. A beginner error to be sure, but I am curious as to the reason behind this rule.

6. Armies and Corps should be allowed to be eliminated and rebuilt as desired. Several changes occured to most armies of most nations of the period. So long as you pay for the first build of a corps or army, dismantle the unit, and later pay for the rebuilding in time, money, and resources, I cannot fathom a reason to exempt these units from having the red dismantle "x" available on the military panel.

7. Please increase the size of the tactical map, the number of divisions allowed in battle, and the number of divisions/corps available to an army (maybe with modifiers for some leaders).

8. More generals would of course also be nice, but it is quite understandable that names like Kellerman, Junot, and Van Damme may either be in game and never generated for my particular attempt or may be understood as in game but with no modifiers (heck, some leaders should even give negative modifiers ;).

To be sure, I have more to say, but must rest my weary fingers. For now, here is to the hope that these forums are not dead and that future patches will be granted!

Vive' Le Empeurer!! Vive' Le France!!!!!

Post #: 1

RE: New Player's Observations: - 6/7/2008 3:01:12 AM

morganbj

Posts: 3634
Joined: 8/12/2007
From: Mosquito Bite, Texas
Status: offline

quote:

2. Depots at sea? Odd. A better example would be to allow depots to be built right on a fleet. Perhaps recquiring a transport fleet to represent the enourmous amount of supplies necessary to support a land force at sea.

The best way to think of these is that they are not physical stockpiles of stuff floating on the ocean, rather they indicate the extra "expense" you are incurring to flow supplies through that area. It is, in effect, the supply line, not the supplies themselves. It works very well, I think.

quote:

3. While playing France on human and all others on computer, standard game, 23 year duration, normal difficutly, normal powers, I was unable to declare war on Spain (or Spain on France either). For over a decade, Spain marched her armies through France to attack Russia, Prussia, Austria, and even Turkey. Several ultimatums were given and this worked as intended. However, when the Declare War option is clicked, there is no confirmation screen and the game continues as was. There is no option under the right click on Spain panel to Declare War either. Spain had cancelled the alliance with France fairly early on, and though I kept a diplomat with charm in Madrid until I was ready to turn to the West, I never was able to fight the Spaniards. I also allowed the attitude of Spain to slip from a bright yellow smile to a frowning red face, but to no avail

France and Spain start as allies and therefore no war can exist between them. Once that treaty is nullified, no war can exist between two countries if each of them already has a common enemy. I suspect that's the case in your games. But, beyond that, I'm not sure why you would want to declare war on Spain. Generally, I find it a good idea to have them help with my wars, rather than have to worry about my backdoor. Once you've amassed enough glory, Spain usually breaks your alliance and then declares war on you anyway. You should be able to easily handle them and all other comers, as well, by that time.

There is an expansion in development now. Let's see if it addresses some of your other concerns.

(in reply to morgansurname)

Post #: 2

RE: New Player's Observations: - 6/7/2008 2:13:57 PM

jkBluesman

Posts: 797
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline

8. Keep in mind that you may mod the general's ratings. You may also add new ones (there are tons of mods already available on this site).

_____________________________

"War is the field of chance."
Carl von Clausewitz

(in reply to morganbj)

Post #: 3

RE: New Player's Observations: - 6/12/2008 4:20:07 PM

morgansurname

Posts: 90
Joined: 8/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan

quote:

2. Depots at sea? Odd. A better example would be to allow depots to be built right on a fleet. Perhaps recquiring a transport fleet to represent the enourmous amount of supplies necessary to support a land force at sea.

The best way to think of these is that they are not physical stockpiles of stuff floating on the ocean,�rather they indicate the extra "expense" you are incurring to flow supplies through that area.� It is, in effect, the supply line, not the supplies themselves.� It works very well, I think.

quote:

3. While playing France on human and all others on computer, standard game, 23 year duration, normal difficutly, normal powers, I was unable to declare war on Spain (or Spain on France either). For over a decade, Spain marched her armies through France to attack Russia, Prussia, Austria, and even Turkey. Several ultimatums were given and this worked as intended. However, when the Declare War option is clicked, there is no confirmation screen and the game continues as was. There is no option under the right click on Spain panel to Declare War either. Spain had cancelled the alliance with France fairly early on, and though I kept a diplomat with charm in Madrid until I was ready to turn to the West, I never was able to fight the Spaniards. I also allowed the attitude of Spain to slip from a bright yellow smile to a frowning red face, but to no avail

France and Spain start as allies and therefore no war can exist between them.� Once that treaty is nullified, no war can exist between two countries if each of them already has a common enemy.� I suspect that's the case in your games.�� But, beyond that, I'm not sure why you would want to declare war on Spain.� Generally, I find it a good idea to have them help with my wars, rather than have to worry about my backdoor.� Once you've amassed enough glory, Spain usually breaks your alliance and then declares war on you anyway.� You should be able to easily handle them and all other comers, as well, by that time.

There is an expansion in development now.� Let's see if it�addresses some of your other concerns.

2. Understood. However, the supply depot chain is easily interrupted, causing massive attrition losses, even when transporting an Army from Kent to Normandy. Perhaps then an increased amount of cost in food and coin should be added in another way if a fleet is transporting troops. Once the boys are aboard and on the way, they would receive their supply from that which was loaded onto the fleet; not from a long supply chain of boats running food back and forth from the point of debarking.

3. Aye, this would explain the situation perfectly. Thanks! I play the game and all such games in a "realistic" fashion when able. I put down on paper the policies that each nation may have chosen and either pick one or roll it randomly and then attempt to follow it as much as possible. Spanish troops running through Austria and Prussia would be very unrealistic even if Portugal, Gibraltar, North Africa, and Italy were all under Spanish rule. And that was not the case in this scenario. Additionally, I was at a point where I wanted to create the Kingoms of Italy and Naples and was unable to gain them through treaty from Spain. To rectify this, I decided that I have enough experience to run all the nations on hotseat with policies chosen in advance. It is working very well!!!!

(in reply to morganbj)

Post #: 4

RE: New Player's Observations: - 6/12/2008 4:21:51 PM

morgansurname

Posts: 90
Joined: 8/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan

quote:

There is an expansion in development now.� Let's see if it�addresses some of your other concerns.

Most excellent! Thanks for that tip too!!!! Any indication as to the release date?

(in reply to morganbj)

Post #: 5

RE: New Player's Observations: - 6/12/2008 4:22:37 PM

morgansurname

Posts: 90
Joined: 8/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jkBluesman

8. Keep in mind that you may mod the general's ratings. You may also add new ones (there are tons of mods already available on this site).

Very nice! I was not aware of that. Thank you!

Though I realize that ratings are always debatable, does anyone have a concise list of missig leaders with ratings for all nations?

< Message edited by morgansurname -- 6/12/2008 4:24:21 PM >

(in reply to jkBluesman)

Post #: 6

RE: New Player's Observations: - 6/12/2008 10:10:46 PM

morganbj

Posts: 3634
Joined: 8/12/2007
From: Mosquito Bite, Texas
Status: offline

There's a list of generals at this website for all nations of the period. I had to snoop around a bit to find it, but it's there. It's an excel file called Generals.xls. There's also a Word doocument right above it that explains what the codes are. Look under "Library," then down near the bottom under "Napoleonic Downloads." For some reason, a hot link doesn't work, so it's best to find it this way. BTW, there's also an OOB here, too. Pretty cool.

http://www.warmongerclub.com/

(in reply to morgansurname)

Post #: 7

RE: New Player's Observations: - 6/13/2008 6:20:07 PM

morgansurname

Posts: 90
Joined: 8/30/2004
Status: offline

Very nice link.

Thanks!

(in reply to morganbj)

Post #: 8

RE: New Player's Observations: - 6/17/2008 10:10:01 PM

morgansurname

Posts: 90
Joined: 8/30/2004
Status: offline

A few more notes and questions:

1. If possible (for the expansion or future patches), would the devs consider allowing leaders to be independant of units? And along the same lines, why do generals attached to a corps appear in a detalied battle which does not contain their corps (i.e. Davout in command of III corps appears in a battle where I and II corps are fighting). That is very unrealistic as he would be driving his own corps towards the battle and not attempting to rally troops under Bernadotte and Marmont).

2. Cavalry sure does a lot of damage at range! As far as I know, Carbiniers were the only truly ballistic armed cavalry force during this period (maybe cossacks and Turks also). But even the troopers fighting from horse back used firearms only as a last resort. The numbers in a cavalry division were also much less than their foot marching counterparts in the infantry. For instance, a Lt. Cav division in I corps may have topped out at 3-5k troopers, where as an infantry division in the same corps might have had a paper strength of 10k

(in reply to morgansurname)

Post #: 9

RE: New Player's Observations: - 6/18/2008 5:54:54 AM

morganbj

Posts: 3634
Joined: 8/12/2007
From: Mosquito Bite, Texas
Status: offline

1. I've never seen this behavior in COG. Leaders in my battles always appear with a unit in their corps, so I can't say for sure what you're experiencing here. Maybe somebody else can help.

2. The cavalry units in COG are supposed to be about 1/3 the strength of their infantry counterparts, although it shows that they're stronger. So, they're really around 3,000 strength when it shows them at 9,000. This was a design decision to reflect the higher "overhead" involved in recruiting/maintaining cavalry versus infantry. A little abstract, I agree, but I got over it.

COGEE will make some changes to the detailed battles (hexwar or HW) that you'll probably like. I don't know the details of all the weapon range changes, but I know there are some. Stay tuned.

(in reply to morgansurname)

Post #: 10

RE: New Player's Observations: - 6/18/2008 2:43:24 PM

morgansurname

Posts: 90
Joined: 8/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan

1.� I've never seen this behavior in COG.� Leaders in my battles always appear with a unit in their corps, so I can't say for sure what you're experiencing here.� Maybe somebody else can help.

2.� The cavalry units in COG are supposed to be about 1/3 the strength of their infantry counterparts, although it shows that they're stronger.� So, they're really around 3,000 strength when it shows them at 9,000.� This was a design decision to reflect the higher "overhead" involved in recruiting/maintaining cavalry versus infantry.� A little abstract, I agree, but I got over it.

COGEE will�make some changes to the detailed battles (hexwar or HW) that you'll probably like.� I don't know the details of all the weapon range changes, but I know there are some.� Stay tuned.

Thanks again for the input!

Is there a forum for CoGEE?

Maybe I wasnt very clear with the first point. Say you have moved two armies into Linz. Contact is made and the detailed battle window opens. In the battle field, I and II Corps, the Reserve Cav, and the Reserve Arty are all represented in the detailed battle. Their corps and division commanders are present. But so are other corps and divisional commanders from units that did not make this part of the detailed battle. Perhaps Davout from III corps and Soult from IV Corps. The battle is lost by the French perhaps and the second portion of the armies arrives for the second detailed batttled. In this battle, III and IV corps arrive along with Davout and Soult, but also with Bernadotte and Marmont and Murat etc. It would be nice if only the corps commanders and divisional commanders which are represented by their units in the actual battlefield were a part of the battle. And not necessarily all leaders that are present in that regional space (Linz).

Typically, I move any such leaders back to attach to supply caisons and that seems to work most of the time. However, a few have been killed as the supply lines are attacked!

(in reply to morganbj)

Post #: 11

RE: New Player's Observations: - 6/18/2008 11:50:02 PM

morganbj

Posts: 3634
Joined: 8/12/2007
From: Mosquito Bite, Texas
Status: offline

Oh. I see. Well, it's really an advantage to have more leaders in HW as opposed to fewer. But, your idea about putting them with supply units is one I use sometimes, too. COGEE probably won't do much for that.

There is no public COGEE forum yet, but you may start hearing a little about it before too long, I suspect. My guess is that when it's about ready for release a few folks will start posting here, if it doesn't get its own forum. Typically, there will be screenshots, maybe a list of new features, and I'm sure the beta testers will chime in with accolades about it.

COG is really outstanding in its own right, but COGEE is really quite a product now ... almost a new game. It's still COG, of course, but bigger, better, more fun. You'll be impressed with the effort that has gone into it, I think. The developers have done an excellent job with it. The improvements are all right on target. I'm really excited about it. So, keep checking in now and then.

(in reply to morgansurname)

Post #: 12

RE: New Player's Observations: - 6/19/2008 4:48:57 AM

Russian Guard

Posts: 1251
Joined: 10/14/2005
Status: offline

Morgansurname,

Belated welcome to the CoG family - I have been away from the forum for some time but am a big fan of this game and can't wait for CoGEE. Many posts under my belt over the last 2+ years.

I posted a mod for Spanish Generals if interested - I'm sure you can find it if you search the forums. I also did a Generals mod for Russia and Sweden, can try to post those up if interested.

My time isn't what it once was for forum-hawking, but I'm going to try to stay more up on events now.

(in reply to morgansurname)

Post #: 13

RE: New Player's Observations: - 6/19/2008 6:16:53 AM

Gem35

Posts: 3420
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline

CoG will always be a sentimental favorite beside my all-time Fav WitP, great game and alot of fun to play.
I will be looking forward to the Emperor's Edition expansion as well.

_____________________________

It doesn't make any sense, Admiral. Were we better than the Japanese or just luckier?

Banner By Feurer Krieg

(in reply to Russian Guard)

Post #: 14

RE: New Player's Observations: - 7/3/2008 8:16:45 PM

morgansurname

Posts: 90
Joined: 8/30/2004
Status: offline

Couple of more things...

1. Would it be possible to detach leaders from units which rout off the battlefield (detailed battle). I had Napoleon rout away with a unit he was trying to rally.

Maybe have the leaders attach to the nearest unit?

2. During detailed battles, it would be nice if the defender was able to decide where the battle takes place to an extent. Would it be possible to develop a system which would allow the defender to choose the detailed battle screen for multiple player? This would be perhaps a higher number of views of possible random battlefields based on tactics , time spent in the area before being attacked, etc.

Here is an example. Wellington is sitting in Jutland with a British/Swedish force. Napoleon moves on his position. 2 months have passed since Wellington arrived. The detailed battle screen opens to the defender (Wellington) first. He has the option of taking the first screen a number of times equal to the total of the defending leaders stars - the attacking leader's stars + the number of months stationary in the zone (Jutland in this case) + a factor based on tactics or iniative of the defender - a factor of the attacker based on tactics or initiative. All results of 1 or less are treated as one. (Lets say for the example the total was 3) If the result is above 1, the defender looks at the screen and troop disposition and decides whether or not to proceed. If he is happy with the terrain and troop start points, the battle proceeds. If he is not happy, he clicks a button closing the screen and another detailed battle screen opens. This time, he has a nice hill behind him with a village on one flank and a fort on the other. He likes the terrain and troop disposition and clicks on a button to proceed with the battle. Even though the total of the example is 3, the defender decides that taking a chance on the next screen is not worth losing the terrain in the 2nd screen.

This would reflect both the increased chance for a defender awaiting an inevitalble attack to find good solid earth and the possiblity that even with this time, a poor commander could be outdone by an excellent tactician with a stronger grasp of the operational venue and initiative.

To reflect this while playing hotseat is not a problem. However game mechanics would of course need working on to add this fairly to a multiple player game.

(in reply to morgansurname)

Post #: 15

RE: New Player's Observations: - 7/4/2008 1:25:09 AM

morganbj

Posts: 3634
Joined: 8/12/2007
From: Mosquito Bite, Texas
Status: offline

1. Once the rout is on, adios! I've learned to live with losing Nappy that way, but it still ticks me off, too.

2. What you ask for is not going to happen in COGEE, but there are some significant changes to HW (hex war), in particular, that I think you'll like. Because of the nature of the game, randomness is still necessary, but you'll have some opportunity to have more control over deployments. I don't want to give too much information quite yet, things can always change until the final product is ready to be released. Besides, it's best to hear the details from the Matrix/WCS staff, not some poor slug like me.

The hisoricity of the game is excellent, and it's quite fun to play. I love COG, but I really love COGEE.

COGEE is a fantastic game and when you get to see the screenshots and read the list of new and changed features, you'll really be impressed. It's still in development, so these won't be available REAL soon, but as soon as it's near completion, I suspect. I can't wait for it to be released, myself. Save up your money!

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Post #: 16