I expect the MWIF Player’s manual …. 8 ½ by 11 ….7 by 5.

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

I expect the MWIF Player’s manual …. 8 ½ by 11 ….7 by 5.

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> World in Flames >> I expect the MWIF Player’s manual …. 8 ½ by 11 ….7 by 5.

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

I expect the MWIF Player’s manual …. 8 ½ by 11 ….7 by 5. - 2/21/2008 4:51:39 AM

Fred98

Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
I expect the MWIF Player’s manual to run to 150 full size pages (8 ½ by 11) and close to 400 if printed on
7 by 5.

We know the Roman army used imperial measurements but the modern world does not.

Please ensure the PDF version of the manual is produced using A4 sized pages.

Now going outside to check on my Legion.

Joe

Post #: 1

RE: I expect the MWIF Player’s manual …. 8 ½ by 11 ….7 ... - 2/21/2008 7:35:28 PM

composer99

Posts: 2923
Joined: 6/6/2005
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline

Speaking as someone from the North American market (which uses 8.5x11 for standard-size pages), I (a) see no reason why both forms of page size can't be used (two separate versions of the Player's Manual - as long as Steve isn't the one preparing them) and (b) fail to see how neither the USA nor Canada are part of "the modern world".

Now, okay, so I have to leave my dogsled at the border kennel when I want to visit the States and all...

_____________________________

~ Composer99

(in reply to Fred98)

Post #: 2

RE: I expect the MWIF Player’s manual …. 8 ½ by 11 ….7 ... - 2/25/2008 9:22:18 PM

Anendrue

Posts: 817
Joined: 7/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
I expect the MWIF Player’s manual to run to 150 full size pages (8 ½ by 11) and close to 400 if printed on
7 by 5.

We know the Roman army used imperial measurements but the modern world does not.

Please ensure the PDF version of the manual is produced using A4 sized pages.

Now going outside to check on my Legion.

Joe

"modern world" - what kind of sorry remark is that?

Differences in standards does not make a location modern or ancient, progressive or backward. It only means there is a difference. A failure to accomodate both standards would be unfortunate. However it is likely the decision will be based on the location with the majority of sales and therefore appeasing the largest segment of customers. We should make our case for the inclusion of both standards!

_____________________________

Integrity is what you do when nobody is watching.

(in reply to Fred98)

Post #: 3

RE: I expect the MWIF Player’s manual …. 8 ½ by 11 ….7 ... - 2/25/2008 10:06:09 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: abj9562

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
I expect the MWIF Player’s manual to run to 150 full size pages (8 ½ by 11) and close to 400 if printed on
7 by 5.

We know the Roman army used imperial measurements but the modern world does not.

Please ensure the PDF version of the manual is produced using A4 sized pages.

Now going outside to check on my Legion.

Joe

"modern world" - what kind of sorry remark is that?

Differences in standards does not make a location modern or ancient, progressive or backward. It only means there is a difference. A failure to accomodate both standards would be unfortunate. However it is likely the decision will be based on the location with the majority of sales and therefore appeasing the largest segment of customers. We should make our case for the inclusion of both standards!

I would think that what size the manual is should be based on other criteria that what is commonly used in different markets.

I occasionally get papers in legal size (8 1/2 by 14) which is a pain because I inevitably want to file these documents. And I find the use of A4 slightly disconcerting, though no big deal.

But books and magazines come in all different sizes. I would hazard a guess that I own books and magzines in over 100 different sizes. When the publisher tries to use a small size and ends up having to make the volume many pages, that annoys me. I had a paperback copy of Third Reich that fell apart because it was over 1500 pages. The one I own now has a larger page size and the chance of that happening again is low.

So, I want Matrix to choose a large enough size that does not make the Player's Manual too thick. Or, barring that possibility, to split it into two volumes so they are more manageable and less prone to fall apart with heavy use.

Beyond that, why does anyone care?

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Anendrue)

Post #: 4

RE: I expect the MWIF Player’s manual …. 8 ½ by 11 ….7 ... - 2/25/2008 11:39:46 PM

Sewerlobster

Posts: 330
Joined: 5/7/2007
From: Reading, Pa. USA
Status: offline

Since this is a computer game, and most of us are not going to print it but instead use it as a pdf; I simply appreciate that they are trying to minimize the printing. Thank you Matrix.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 5

RE: I expect the MWIF Player’s manual …. 8 ½ by 11 ….7 ... - 3/1/2008 1:48:15 PM

YohanTM2

Posts: 1143
Joined: 10/7/2002
From: Toronto
Status: offline

I must disagree SSF, I think you will find you will need to print this manual, dog ear it, highlights etc. due to all the permutations and combinations of rules.

Much easier to review multiple sections.

(in reply to Sewerlobster)

Post #: 6

RE: I expect the MWIF Player’s manual …. 8 ½ by 11 ….7 ... - 3/1/2008 5:55:02 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yohan

I must disagree SSF, I think you will find you will need to print this manual, dog ear it, highlights etc. due to all the permutations and combinations of rules.

Much easier to review multiple sections.

Current plans are for a quasi-compromise.

The Player's Manual will be printed and part of the 'boxed' product: I estimate 150 pages if done using 8 1/2 by 11. You can do your own calculations based on that number for other page sizes.

Rules as Coded (finished!) will not be part of the printed documentation. It is 150 pages in 8 1/2 by 11.

EDIT: Both will be part of the product as PDFs.

< Message edited by Shannon V. OKeets -- 3/1/2008 5:56:06 PM >

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to YohanTM2)

Post #: 7

RE: I expect the MWIF Player’s manual …. 8 ½ by 11 ….7 ... - 6/17/2008 8:43:37 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

I just got word from Erik that we can double the number of pages for the Player's Manual - from the previous upper limit. Which is great!

So, this means the Player's Manual will be 5" by 7", the normal size for player's manuals for Matrix games. However, we will split the MWIF Player's Manual into two roughly equal parts, with one placed inside the CD case and the second outside. I estimate that each of these will be about 250 numbered pages.

As things progress on writing and assembling the text for the Player's Manual we'll decide what goes into which of the two parts, but most likely one will contain the appendices, describing all the optional rules, and holding all the different charts etc.. The other will describe how to load the game and the player's interface. This division means that you read the "How to Load & Play" part when you get the game, and the "Charts & Details" after you have mastered the basics.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 8

RE: I expect the MWIF Player’s manual …. 8 ½ by 11 ….7 ... - 6/18/2008 12:01:35 AM

wfzimmerman

Posts: 660
Joined: 10/22/2003
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

I just got word from Erik that we can double the number of pages for the Player's Manual - from the previous upper limit. Which is great!

So, this means the Player's Manual will be 5" by 7", the normal size for player's manuals for Matrix games. However, we will split the MWIF Player's Manual into two roughly equal parts, with one placed inside the CD case and the second outside. I estimate that each of these will be about 250 numbered pages.

As things progress on writing and assembling the text for the Player's Manual we'll decide what goes into which of the two parts, but most likely one will contain the appendices, describing all the optional rules, and holding all the different charts etc.. The other will describe how to load the game and the player's interface. This division means that you read the "How to Load & Play" part when you get the game, and the "Charts & Details" after you have mastered the basics.

5 x 7 is pretty small for material like this. I have a couple of similarly sized manuals for other Matrix games and I hate them (the manuals). I realize this is probably hard for Matrix to change because they're wed to a box size, but this might be the exception that justifies the rule.

_____________________________

Contribute to the Steve H. thank you book! http://www.nimblebooks.com/wordpress/2009/04/contribute-to-the-wargamers-wwii-quiz-book/

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 9

RE: I expect the MWIF Player’s manual …. 8 ½ by 11 ….7 ... - 6/18/2008 1:15:55 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wfzimmerman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

I just got word from Erik that we can double the number of pages for the Player's Manual - from the previous upper limit. Which is great!

So, this means the Player's Manual will be 5" by 7", the normal size for player's manuals for Matrix games. However, we will split the MWIF Player's Manual into two roughly equal parts, with one placed inside the CD case and the second outside. I estimate that each of these will be about 250 numbered pages.

As things progress on writing and assembling the text for the Player's Manual we'll decide what goes into which of the two parts, but most likely one will contain the appendices, describing all the optional rules, and holding all the different charts etc.. The other will describe how to load the game and the player's interface. This division means that you read the "How to Load & Play" part when you get the game, and the "Charts & Details" after you have mastered the basics.

5 x 7 is pretty small for material like this. I have a couple of similarly sized manuals for other Matrix games and I hate them (the manuals). I realize this is probably hard for Matrix to change because they're wed to a box size, but this might be the exception that justifies the rule.

I doubt that Erik is going to change his mind. He certainly has heard numerous arguments for different sizes for the player's manual. And while I personally prefer a larger size, I can always print out the PDF version if my passion runs that deep.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to wfzimmerman)

Post #: 10

RE: I expect the MWIF Player’s manual …. 8 ½ by 11 ….7 ... - 6/18/2008 1:55:40 PM

Øystein

Posts: 10
Joined: 12/5/2007
Status: offline

Please supply the manual carved on stone tablet, using norse runes with a 2 inch font size.

Kthx.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 11

RE: I expect the MWIF Player’s manual …. 8 ½ by 11 ….7 ... - 6/18/2008 8:35:08 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Øystein

Please supply the manual carved on stone tablet, using norse runes with a 2 inch font size.

Kthx.

Making edits would be a challenge.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Øystein)

Post #: 12

RE: I expect the MWIF Player’s manual …. 8 ½ by 11 ….7 ... - 6/18/2008 8:53:13 PM

SamuraiProgrmmr

Posts: 353
Joined: 10/17/2004
From: Paducah, Kentucky
Status: offline

Yes, but at least the rules would be carved in stone.

(Run, Duck, and Cover)

_____________________________

Bridge is the best wargame going .. Where else can you find a tournament every weekend?

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 13

RE: I expect the MWIF Player’s manual …. 8 ½ by 11 ….7 ... - 6/19/2008 7:58:14 AM

Klingon

Posts: 52
Joined: 5/18/2006
Status: offline

I'd even be so bold as to suggest the manual not be printed and shipped with the box, but included as a .pdf, with the option to buy the printed manual at an extra nominal fee (say $10?), to reduce the cost of the final product. Not sure what savings that would actually be, though (saving $5 on an $80 product, for example, would clearly not be worthwhile, but saving $10 on a $50 product would. Say, 10% as a guideline?)

(in reply to SamuraiProgrmmr)

Post #: 14

RE: I expect the MWIF Player’s manual …. 8 ½ by 11 ….7 ... - 6/19/2008 8:19:57 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Klingon

I'd even be so bold as to suggest the manual not be printed and shipped with the box, but included as a .pdf, with the option to buy the printed manual at an extra nominal fee (say $10?), to reduce the cost of the final product. Not sure what savings that would actually be, though (saving $5 on an $80 product, for example, would clearly not be worthwhile, but saving $10 on a $50 product would. Say, 10% as a guideline?)

The game will be available as a download, in which case the buyer will get a cost savings. The primary advantage of buying the boxed version is the Player's Manual - unless the purchaser wants to keep an unopened copy for some reason