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Night fighters? - 5/28/2008 9:03:57 PM   
Owl

 

Posts: 179
Joined: 8/4/2000
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		Will this game deal with the night attacks during the BOB and bombing of Germany or "just" day combat?

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RE: Night fighters? - 5/28/2008 10:10:32 PM   
daft

 

Posts: 406
Joined: 5/18/2002
Status: offline 		Good question. If it is in, how detailed is the modelling of the various night fighting technologies? Schräge Musik, airborne radar, etc, etc. After playing a bit of Defending the Reich, I've really started to long for a more detailed simulation of the night fighting/night bombing part of the air war. Is this game it?

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RE: Night fighters? - 5/29/2008 1:00:59 AM   
von Shagmeister


Posts: 1273
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: Dromahane, Ireland
Status: offline 		Night aspects of the war are modelled in both BoB and BTR.

The night campaign is obviously more complicated for BTR with various sensors being modelled (FuG 202, FuG 212, FuG 220, FuG 227 (Flensburg), FuG 350 (Naxos), AI Mk. IV, AI Mk.VIII etc, etc). As well as primary AIRs and passive sensors for the nightfigthers there's H2S, Gee, Monica etc for the bombers as well as ELINT and RCM (Mandrel, Jostle) on specialist a/c.

You even get creep back when bombing a target.

< Message edited by von Shagmeister -- 5/29/2008 10:14:13 AM >

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RE: Night fighters? - 5/29/2008 2:55:56 AM   
Owl

 

Posts: 179
Joined: 8/4/2000
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		kewl, I need to go check the aircraft list again, I don't remember the mosquito or He-219 but then again I have been accused of being half blind before with things I'm looking for right in front of my nose!

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RE: Night fighters? - 5/29/2008 8:27:13 AM   
daft

 

Posts: 406
Joined: 5/18/2002
Status: offline 		Thanks v. Shagmeister, much appreciated and just the answer I was hoping for. :)

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RE: Night fighters? - 5/29/2008 2:11:17 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		Owl, I am not sure which list you were looking at, I think the last one i posted was for BoB, so both of those planes would not be on it, the plane set for 43-44 is much larger then it is in 40-41

:)


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RE: Night fighters? - 6/24/2008 6:01:53 AM   
kaybayray

 

Posts: 424
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline 		Shagmeister,

Can you give my any advice on using some of the night fighters and RCM aircraft of the Allies in BTR? I am trying to figure out how to best apply Bomber Command assets. I have read a bit about some of the RCM aircraft missions during the war but not quite sure what different ways I can use them in the game.

From what little I have read they were used for Radio Counter Measures (RCM). Most of the accounts I have found deal with jamming of German flight controllers vectoring Night Interceptors toward Bomber Streams. Havn't found much about jamming Radar or anything else yet. Curious if anybody can explain some of their "in game" capabilities.

Mostly right now I am fumbling around with them trying to figure out how to use them. I would appreciate any help you or anybody else can give me.

Later,
KayBay

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RE: Night fighters? - 6/24/2008 12:38:03 PM   
macbeth

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 5/27/2007
Status: offline 		Will German nightfighters be able to follow BC back to base rather than stop at the channel as they do in present game.

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RE: Night fighters? - 6/24/2008 10:24:57 PM   
von Shagmeister


Posts: 1273
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: Dromahane, Ireland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kaybayray

Shagmeister,

Can you give my any advice on using some of the night fighters and RCM aircraft of the Allies in BTR? I am trying to figure out how to best apply Bomber Command assets. I have read a bit about some of the RCM aircraft missions during the war but not quite sure what different ways I can use them in the game.

From what little I have read they were used for Radio Counter Measures (RCM). Most of the accounts I have found deal with jamming of German flight controllers vectoring Night Interceptors toward Bomber Streams. Havn't found much about jamming Radar or anything else yet. Curious if anybody can explain some of their "in game" capabilities.

Mostly right now I am fumbling around with them trying to figure out how to use them. I would appreciate any help you or anybody else can give me.

Later,
KayBay


Hi kaybayray,

I'm the wrong person to ask about the most effective use of Allied a/c in the game (BTR) as I'm almost exclusively an Axis player.

However from an Axis point of view Allied nightfighters in the bomber stream are largely ineffectual thought they do engage Lw nightfighters more than in the old version of the game (off course much will depend on the avionics fit, more advanced AIR should be more effective). On the other hand Allied intruders over Axis A/Fs are deadly if they catch a/c trying to land. They are more effective than in real life as a/c always return to their home A/F and don't have the option of diverting to a nearby A/F when they know there is intruder activity over their home base.

With regards to RCM in real life Mandrel was used to jam Lw early warning radars (Freya, Jagdschloss, Wassermann etc), the effect in the game is to reduce the maximum detection range of the radars. Whilst testing the late war scenarios Lw radar is severely degraded during BC raids (along the course of the bomber stream), presumably due to 100 Group's activities. Jostle was used to jam Lw R/T (comms) transmissions (as you mention in your post above). Again whilst testing late war scenarios some Lw nightfighters that I assigned to intercept incoming raids failed to follow orders, again I put this down to 100 Group's interference.

The RCM/RCCM aspects of the night bomber campaign were facinating, the advantage switching from one side to the other as new devices were introduced and then countered. In the older version of the game many of them didn't work as they should but appear to be working much better now.

Hope you find the above of use.

Best Regards


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RE: Night fighters? - 6/24/2008 10:33:26 PM   
von Shagmeister


Posts: 1273
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: Dromahane, Ireland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: macbeth

Will German nightfighters be able to follow BC back to base rather than stop at the channel as they do in present game.


Whilst it would be nice to be able to follow BC back to Britain, a means would be required to allow the Allied player the ability of intercepting Lw intruders (ie an Allied reaction phase). This would require a major reworking of the game.

Many Allied nightfigher Sqns aren't included in the game OoB (until later) as they were engaged in air defense duties over the UK during the BTR period, this being represented by not being available for ops over occupied Europe.

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RE: Night fighters? - 6/25/2008 12:12:56 PM   
macbeth

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 5/27/2007
Status: offline 		Thanks for your answer,though it happened in real life i appreciate the constrictions on the game.Iread somewhere that german high command had banned it but soma squadrons ignored it.

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RE: Night fighters? - 6/25/2008 4:40:16 PM   
von Shagmeister


Posts: 1273
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: Dromahane, Ireland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: macbeth

Thanks for your answer,though it happened in real life i appreciate the constrictions on the game.Iread somewhere that german high command had banned it but soma squadrons ignored it.


Early in the war NJG 2 had great success over the UK but like you say Lw nightfighters were later prohibited from operating over the UK (or sea) so that any kills occured over "friendly" territory so that successes were visible to the local populace. Quite a short sighted decision (like so many made by the German hierarchy).

There were a few ops by intruders over the UK, notably V./KG 2 with Me 410s from mid 43 and during Mar45 Lw nightfighters were let of the leash to operate over the UK but the air defense network was so efficient that little of real worth was achieved.


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