A strange thing

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A strange thing - 3/29/2002 8:49:21 PM

Gary Tatro

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Joined: 2/1/2002
From: MA, US
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Happened last night while I was playing the Russian Steel campaign. It had to do with my SO Infantry. I would fire on units and then receive return fire, my suppression would increase when ever my units were fired upon but none of my men were killed. But as soon as one my men was killed.

My suppression would actually reduce. I had an instance last night where 3 men were killed in one of my units and had my suppression end up at 0??? This happened without me clicking on the unit and trying to rally it.

Has anyone else noticed this?

I have just recently upgraded to the newest 7.1v

Gary

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Post #: 1

- 3/29/2002 9:20:34 PM

Larry Holt

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From: Atlanta, GA 30068
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This is a known feature of SPWaW. The idea is that in combat sometimes people cower (are supressed) but then decide that they have taken all the %&@# that they are going to take and stand up and start fighting hard. "If I am going to die, I might as well die here and take a few of the enemy with me." For the Soviets, the ability to spontaneously drop all suppression is part of their national characteristics so they do it more often than others. This is documented in the manual I believe.

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Post #: 2

- 3/29/2002 9:37:54 PM

gnoccop

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Joined: 7/26/2001
From: Cento, Italy
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I think this is the "berserk" national carateristic of USSR Army (do you remember Squad Leader?)

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Post #: 3

- 3/29/2002 9:58:19 PM

parusski

Posts: 4804
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From: Jackson Tn
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by gnoccop
[B]I think this is the "berserk" national carateristic of USSR Army (do you remember Squad Leader?) [/B][/QUOTE]

You stole my thunder gnoccop, I wanted to mention "berserk" from Squad Leader. Oh well you were faster.

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Post #: 4

- 3/29/2002 10:15:23 PM

Charles2222

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Gary Tatro: Do a find on "overrun" in the manual. It mentions among other things experience, leadership, size of AFV, MGs, main gun HE, and also overrun victim's satchel charges, flamethrowers (and some other weapon I forget) play a factor.

PZIIIEs are liable to do well because of likely good leadership/experience, but also because of the MGs. I doubt the T28 (or T35) would make up for all the disadvantages it has compared to the PZIIIE, but by virtue of it's size alone, but to all appearances it looks like those are the best tanks for USSR overruns. Given all the factors involved, the T26s, BT7s, and armored cars are probably all but useless in the role, at least until they can get some good experience/leadership. Actually, now that I think about it, the KV2 may be the best overrun AFV for the USSR as it's main gun HE and the size of the unit are about as high as you can get.

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- 3/29/2002 11:23:09 PM

Larry Holt

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From: Atlanta, GA 30068
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Berserk is a feature of melee. What Gary is seeing happens during direct/indirect fires. They are similar but different. Berserk increases melee combat power while the other sponanously removes surpression and returns a unit the ready state.

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Post #: 6

- 3/29/2002 11:33:40 PM

Bing

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"I wanted to mention "berserk" from Squad Leader ..."

Yes. But for the Grand Grognard prize of all time: Where did we find - and who were - the Berserker Giant Killer Penguins?

(Not killers of giants - they were giant penguins who were also killers when they went berserk, which was often.)

The clock is running .......

Bing

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Post #: 7

Batman 2 - 3/29/2002 11:43:55 PM

Gary Tatro

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"Are you going to do something or just stand there and bleed"

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Post #: 8

- 3/30/2002 2:03:09 AM

john g

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bing
[B]"I wanted to mention "berserk" from Squad Leader ..."

Yes. But for the Grand Grognard prize of all time: Where did we find - and who were - the Berserker Giant Killer Penguins?

(Not killers of giants - they were giant penguins who were also killers when they went berserk, which was often.)

The clock is running .......

Bing [/B][/QUOTE]

You almost made me dig into the boxes from the last move to find my copy of SPI collector, but since I am on my way to a wedding this afternoon I can't spend 10-12 hours digging for it.

I remember it as a game from SPI, and there were SS tank units, and something like zepps. For the life of me I can't remember the name, that was one of the few games of theirs that I stayed away from, and I am one of the very few ever to wear out a copy of Scrimmage. That game was a hit in my college dorm for 4 years, by the time I left it was in tatters.
thanks, John.

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Post #: 9

Squad Leader "Berzerk" fest. - 3/30/2002 6:02:10 AM

zaxilon

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From: PHX Arizona
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After reading some of the posts about berzerk status in the Squad Leader game I just had to relate briefly one of my most extraordinary experiences with it while playing Squad Leader.

Many years ago when I actively played Squad Leader with my gaming buds we had a game set up in my garage. I took my 6' X 12' ping pong table and used it as a gaming table. We mixed miniatures and Squad Leader on it. Our game was on the east front and my team ran the Soviets. My force was entrenced on a forward facing slope defending against a German assault. In the center of my line a squad blew several moral roles and went berzerk and jumped out of thier entrenchments and assaulted the oncoming overrun attack. This morale fluke instantly spread down both sides of my front line and within a couple turns most of my infantry had jumped out of their entrenchments and was running to attack the oncomming German armor and infantry formation still over 300 yards away.

As the battle progressed this turned out to be one of the biggest bloodbaths I ever played out in Squad Leader. Since a large proportion of our infantry was berzerk and charging forward we were left with a pretty sticky decision. Should we leave them to their fate since we were playing a game and we really didnt want to risk losing our entire force? Or should we stick to what we think may have been the response of the Soviets given the same set of circumstances? After a bit of debate we decided to play the Soviets in national character and commanded an all out assault against the incoming German forces. We literally threw everything we had that could move at them. We called our artillery in on top of the ensueing melee.

It took us several weekends of sessions to complete the battle. The aftermath left us with only a handful of Soviets defending the high ground and a badly mauled German Panzer force in retreat. Both teams agreed that it was at best a tactical victory for the Soviets because they stopped the German assault. Although the price would have prohibited a repeat of this action until that section could be reinforced and left a dangerously weak area in the line that the Germans could quickley exploit with nearby units.

Later,
Zaxilon :D

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Post #: 10

- 3/30/2002 9:57:47 AM

tracer

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I remember opening my first AH game, 'Third Reich', back in the 70's. As I was separating the cardboard 'units' I noticed a small number that were red; a quick check in the manual identified them as berserk Russian formations. I recall being slightly amazed that they ignored or bypassed many of the rules...almost like they took on a life of their own and controlled themselves.

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Post #: 11

- 4/1/2002 5:17:07 PM

badinfo

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Bing, that would be "Swords and Sorcery" no?
Is that the one that had the vortexes as well? Memory is slipping lol. We might have combined more than 1 game.

We had another game about Panzers, was a ziplock game called Panzer Wars? Panzer something at any rate. Had rules for ricochet shots, tanks sliding on the ice, alternate combat resolution (fisticuffs with your opponent) bottles of Coca Cola as victory point items. I recall the order of play was something like:
Player 1 moves
Player 2 fires
Player 2 moves
Player 1 fires
Bathroom Phase (optional)

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Post #: 12

- 4/1/2002 8:41:28 PM

Bing

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Badinfo is very close. The giant killer penguins in this particular game had nothing to do with Batman. Yes, there were also vortexes n the game.

I have not yet decided the prize, but am thinking of a large bag of stale popcorn. something to keep the gamer going on those long, long sessions.

I always loved the SL berserker Russians. Sort of gave a flavor to the game that otherwise wouldn't have been there. There was a memorable scenrio where everything came down to a melee in a single hex, with outcome decided on the last roll of the last turn. Gaming didn't get any better, not that I knew. That was then ... WAW is now and provides a lot for the gamer that simply wasn't possible with cardboard and dice.

Still, if I could find a fellow gamer in this godforsaken part of Michigan ....

Bing

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Post #: 13

- 4/2/2002 9:47:56 AM

badinfo

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From: Asheville NC
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Its not SPI's Swords and Sorcery?!

I dont own any other games with Killer Penguins, Vortex hazards, SS Panzers and Zeppelin units! Waaaaaaah!!!!!

:eek:

Chapter 2, In which we learn that badinfo did not read the whole question ;)

Ok, I know that is the right game, as for who they were, I cant remember more than they invaded the land the game took place in and since my copy is in storage 3 states away I am not gonna find out any time soon lol.

On a related note, I found a copy on Ebay that went for over $100 so maybe I should go dig mine out and sell it lol.

badinfo out

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Post #: 14

elite units - 4/2/2002 10:03:02 AM

mogami

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Hi, I used to notice that highly experianced infantry units would also move on their own when confronted by enemy AFV's. (move into cover during enemy players turn) I have not seen that happen in a long while. It used to make me angry during long campaign games I would move my elite Soviet infantry forward (online charge 'huzzah') only to have the force back up on their own during the next enemy players turn. Sometimes they would also move a few hexes if enemy arty got too close.

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