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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [American Civil War] >> Gary Grigsby's War Between the States >> New player questions.

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New player questions. - 6/30/2008 8:21:48 PM

davekinva

Posts: 33
Joined: 3/3/2008
Status: offline

Some specific game mechanic questions (that are probably all addressed in the manual, so please, when necessary call me lazy and refer me to there

.

Supply
1. Supply reportedly helps you achieve initiative. Is this total supply in a region, or only supply in a depot, or a combination of the two? How much supply is needed to achieve a maximum benefit to initiative? Is a depot required only in enemy territory, or also in friendly territory? Is a depot required only for units stacked with army commanders, or do lone units benefit from having supply depots?

2. I've never seen a supply depot depreciate naturally (i.e. not from a cavalry raid). Are supplies in supply depots "used," or are they abstractions?

3. Are cavalry raids effective? For example, if a Union Army has a depot of 100 supply, and a raid captured/eliminates 50 supply, what does that actually *mean* in game terms? Referring back to my question #1, how much supply in a depot does a typical Union Army need to gain an initiative bonus? Does it need all 100? Or just 20? Or 30? Is everything above a certain number wastage and pointless?

4. If a unit/army has no depot present, does it suffer combat penalties, in either defense or attack? Or does supply only affect initiative determination?

Leaders
5. Is there any reason to dismiss a leader other than an Army or Theater commander you don't want any longer?

6. Is there a cost to dismissing a leader? I never saw any, maybe I was missing it. If there is a cost, does it only apply to Army or Theater commanders?

7. Are there any *benefits* to dismissing a leader? (Side note: what a neat mechanic it would be if sacking unpopular losers who always get beaten in battle actually *rewarded* a player with political points).

8. I'm assuming that all things being equal, it is better to have a strong Army Commander vice Theater Commander, i.e. it makes more sense to have Sam Cooper as Theater Commander and Robert E. Lee as an Army Commander than vice versa. True? Are the only benefits of a Theater Commander in improving initiative determination?

9. I admit, I didn't look that closely, but do leader ratings change with rank? I saw that John Bell Hood kept great ratings up through 3 stars, which is historically inaccurate, as he made a much better brigade commander than corps/army commander.

10. What is the value of an Army Commander's ratings? How does the attack/defense ratings impact the lower units and/or combat calculations. How does the total "command rating" come into play? For example, if an Army Commander has a rating of 18, I'm guessing that like a unit commander that means he can have 18 units underneath him. Is that total units (as led by a unit commander)? Does that also get debited by having unassigned brigades within the army?

Units
11. How much value is there in having an experienced brigade? One star? Two star? Is it an attack bonus? A defensive bonus?
(Wishlist request here: can you add the star graphic to the brigade symbol when it is contained *within* a unit? I know that the symbol would have to shrink, but it would enable a player to spot which units had the best brigades without having to take all the brigades out of the unit)

12. Is there any reason to leave units within armies unassigned to a leader? I'm guessing that you should always create leader-led units whenever possible, starting with packing the best leaders to full command and working your way down from there until all brigades are led.

Training units
13. From other postings on this board, if you have a leader with a good training skill (say, Bragg with his ITR of 4), it doesn't matter whether you place brigades under him, under another leader, or leave outside of his unit-- any milita in the region gets his training benefit. Is this true? Is the training benefit in the region cumulative for all leaders in the stack, or only the leader with the best rating? Really, a "walkthrough for stupid people" on how to best train milita the most efficiently way possible would be much appreciated!

Repaired Units
14. I read in the manual that repaired units show up at the nearest factory available, in their home state to start, then their theater, going down the line. Makes sense, but I still see plenty of repaired Virginia and North Carolina units showing up in Texas. That *doesn't* make sense. For chrome purposes I usually end up entraining them over to the theater they should be in, but I'm still curious why this happens. Is it just because they run out of factory space in their home state/theater?

Pocketed Units (ANSWERED)
15. This was a big one. I noticed that units defeated without a retreat hex available are destroyed (captured, in game terms). This happened routinely when I defeated Union seaborne invasions. But what happens if you have an enemy unit completely surrounded, what happens to brigades that are damaged in the pocket? Are those units returned to the repair pool, or are they eliminated from play? Are they "saved" until the pocket is relieved (i.e. the road back for the wounded-- in game terms, damaged units-- is opened back up)? If the pocket is later eliminated, are all the damaged units then rendered destroyed?

Naval Units
16a. (ANSWERED) As the Confederacy, is there a point with bothering? I built a few raiders, but they don't seem cost effective (20 supplies to build, but they usually only seem to get 1-2 supplies a turn-- but rarely survive the year-- although I guess the cost in Union political points has some value). I assume that it makes no sense at all to build a cruiser (it's an on-board naval unit that can't survive againt the Union naval superiority).

16b. Ironclads seemed like a similar waste of money given how many ships the Union builds and so quickly (by mid-war I was routinely dealing with 9 ship ironclad/cruiser Union fleets hitting ports).

As for the river war, as I mentioned in my observation thread, heavy artillery appears to be useless, and Rebel gunships are quickly outnumbered to the point of irrelevancy. The best I've been able to do is secure the waters around Vicksburg, but anything better escapes me (even playing on "Easy").

----

Anyway, those are my first questions of many. I like the game and will keep on playing it, but I'd like to understand how it *works*.

Thanks for any help!
Dave

< Message edited by davekinva -- 6/30/2008 9:26:06 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: New player questions. - 6/30/2008 8:27:51 PM

WarHunter

Posts: 1207
Joined: 3/21/2004
Status: offline

Greetings, Davekinva, Hope the following helps some. There is alot there so ill take 2. and check back later.
�
15. Pocketed Units, They are shown as "Destroyed" in the combat results.
�
16. Naval units, raider Cost is 30 supply and a naval leader. This is one of those choices in the game you have to justifiy to yourself. If you build them, The Union has to build Cruisers to defeat them. If you don't, The Union builds less Cruisers.
�
good for now

�
�

< Message edited by WarHunter -- 6/30/2008 8:29:29 PM >

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Post #: 2

RE: New player questions. - 6/30/2008 9:24:45 PM

davekinva

Posts: 33
Joined: 3/3/2008
Status: offline

Thanks WarHunter-- I didn't look closely enough at the combat results to notice that my question for #15 was already answered (had a great game Saturday where I pocketed Grant at Jackson, with Bragg to his south and Johnston cutting off his lines from Decatur to Corinth-- after his defeat, the 1864 election swung my way).

And, you're right-- 30 points for raiders. Sheesh, I should never write these emails at work, away from the rulebook, eh? Guess that makes 'em even less cost-effective, though.

(in reply to WarHunter)

Post #: 3

RE: New player questions. - 7/1/2008 12:01:54 AM

hgilmer

Posts: 184
Joined: 6/2/2007
From: Birmingham, Alabama
Status: offline

Some answers from someone who has not been playing long.

12. Unassigned militia/infantry units can't be used for attacking - I think Calvary can raid but you have to have a general to actually take a region/province. They don't get "initiative". This can be very frustrating if you didn't attach them the turn before and now your general has initiative. The main reason for leaving them unattached, imo, is for training. This I think is training for unattached units in a region - The highest ITR general with command points (he has slots he could fiull with units but they are empty) so say a general with 18 available slots for units has nobody attached to him and an ITR of 4 - he would attempt to train your unattached militia. I think how it was described in the tutorial is for the union, you could put McClellan and Scott in DC (They start as an Ac and TC respectively) and then throw in a bunch of militia. Mac is a 16 I think and Scott is a 18, so they have a chance to train 34 units.

8. An AC and a TC are two different animals by a long shot!! I hope you get a good explanation of those, because what makes a great AC does not necessarily make a great TC. that's not an answer, but the best I can make out is you want a TC with high ratings in a few different areas and not necessarily combat areas. I know political is huge - try to get a 4. I think Admin is in there as well. I'm sorry I am not very knowledgable yet.

< Message edited by hgilmer -- 7/1/2008 12:02:57 AM >

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RE: New player questions. - 7/1/2008 5:05:32 AM

heroldje

Posts: 95
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline

1.
Supply only helps you get initiative if you build a depot, which gives a +5 bonus to the initiative roll for all units in that region. Useful for building wherever your army commanders are. You can build elsewhere if you like.

2. Just abstractions.

3. Supply is used for many things, including training militia and supplying troops. Its a global value that is applied to any units in the "supply grid", that is, traceable to a depot or rail network. Raiding subtracts from this global value, and is very useful.

4. Being out of supply effects combat, but depots themselves do not.

Leaders
5. I dismiss leaders that have very poor values later on in the war, because i know I won't use them, and they clutter the map.

6. There is a cost for dismissing Army commanders and Theater commanders equal to their Political Points. Other commanders : No.

7. No benefits for sacking leaders.

8. If by better, you mean higher attack and defense ratings, absolutely. I tend to make TC's good unit trainers.

9. No, although they may change with successes/defeats.

10. Too complex.. read the manual, it covers this very thoroughly.

Units
11. Not sure offhand...

12. Leave militia unassigned with leaders that have a high ITR (training rating) The leaders must have unassigned command points to train them.

Training units
13. To train units, put a good training commander in a region. Say McClellan in Washington. I usually make him the TC. Then stack all your eastern militia in his region, unassigned to anyone. McClellan will then use his CP's to train those units.

Repaired Units
14. Is there home region captured?

16b. Ironclads are very effective at bombarding fortifications

(in reply to davekinva)

Post #: 5

RE: New player questions. - 7/1/2008 5:46:48 AM

JAMiAM

Posts: 6165
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: davekinva

(Wishlist request here: can you add the star graphic to the brigade symbol when it is contained *within* a unit? I know that the symbol would have to shrink, but it would enable a player to spot which units had the best brigades without having to take all the brigades out of the unit)

If you click on the box for the leader, it will display the leader and all the individual units/subcommanders that he has attached. This allows you to see all of the experience levels (stars), entrenchment levels, etc., of the attached subunits. Also, you can mouse over the attached subcommanders and get their full stats, as well.

The experience levels of the units add to their attack and defense.

< Message edited by JAMiAM -- 7/1/2008 5:50:04 AM >

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Post #: 6

RE: New player questions. - 7/1/2008 3:14:09 PM

davekinva

Posts: 33
Joined: 3/3/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

quote:

ORIGINAL: davekinva

(Wishlist request here: can you add the star graphic to the brigade symbol when it is contained *within* a unit? I know that the symbol would have to shrink, but it would enable a player to spot which units had the best brigades without having to take all the brigades out of the unit)

If you click on the box for the leader, it will display the leader and all the individual units/subcommanders that he has attached. This allows you to see all of the experience levels (stars), entrenchment levels, etc., of the attached subunits. Also, you can mouse over the attached subcommanders and get their full stats, as well.

The experience levels of the units add to their attack and defense.

Yup, started figuring that out last night, thanks!

(in reply to JAMiAM)

Post #: 7

RE: New player questions. - 7/1/2008 6:21:29 PM

Pford

Posts: 235
Joined: 11/10/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

This allows you to see all of the experience levels (stars), entrenchment levels, etc., of the attached subunits. Also, you can mouse over the attached subcommanders and get their full stats, as well.

DO you mean it shows the entrenchment level after 1864, right?

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Post #: 8

RE: New player questions. - 7/1/2008 9:23:33 PM

Poliorcetes

Posts: 140
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline

Check out the Newbie thread in the War Room Folder, a lot of your questions will be answered (though not in the order you asked them :)

Some general responses:
Cavalry raids can be quite devastating, depending on your leadership, amount of MP's available, defensive troop levels, and presence of supplies. A large raid can captur 5-20 supply and destroy >100 supply (plus the cost of rail road repair). Isolated Artillary units are also very vulnerable to being destroyed by raids.
Seaborne Raiders - Its a strategic choice. It costs 3 units worth of supply and they tend to die within a year or so, on the other hand if you have 3 going its 3 PP a turn plus supply you are capturing plus the Union has to divert resources to catch you (possibly saving your ports).

AC and TC have totally differnt functions (and the attributes they use are different). TC's should be sitting at population centers with high factory levels to maximize Initiative to surrounding AC's. AC's need to be with your large army groups, giving attack/defensive bonus's for the assaults. A good AC can negate the effect of a Fort/crossing river/terrain bonus.
Plus you get PP's every turn based on the AC and TC's political value (a must if you are the Union to balance your automatic erosion each turn)

Always have troops assigned to a leader. Leaderless troops cannot move very far, can't participate in Reaction phase movement, and get less training chances (troops automatically train twice when assigned, if unassigned it takes Command points so its much less efficient)

Poliorcetes

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RE: New player questions. - 7/1/2008 9:31:55 PM

davekinva

Posts: 33
Joined: 3/3/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Poliorcetes

Always have troops assigned to a leader.� Leaderless troops cannot move very far, can't participate in Reaction phase movement, and get less training chances (troops automatically train twice when assigned, if unassigned it takes Command points so its much less efficient)

Poliorcetes

Hmmm. . . I've read a few posts here that seem to contradict that. Perhaps I read it wrong, but the consensus for, say, the Union is to load up a region with a strong TC or AC with unassigned militia, and those militia will train quickly. For example, all the unassigned milita in Washington D.C. with Scott as TC and McClellan as AC will get their training benefits from both those leaders, even if the milita isn't in a unit.

Are you saying that even in that situation, you should always insert all milita into a unit?

BTW, that leads me to a second (dumb) question that I'm sure I wouldn't ask if I had the manual in front of me right now-- what does an *Army Commander's* command points mean in game terms? If an AC has CP of 16, what does that mean in game terms? 16 units can be commanded? Or does it affect initiative rolls? How does it relate to training? I'm assuming higher CP ratings are better, but why?

Thanks for helping. . .

(in reply to Poliorcetes)

Post #: 10

RE: New player questions. - 7/1/2008 10:21:20 PM

alaric318

Posts: 366
Joined: 10/7/2003
Status: offline

well, i am only at novice level with this game but maybe can help somewhat or to some point about training...

here goes...

As Far As I Know, only one leader qualifies for training in one area, with the better stats, and to unassigned units, better, as i does most of the time is to have no one, but around 3/4 "training centers" with USA side, a command rating of 16 (McLeland) makes that he will try to training up to 16 units each "sub-training" phase, leaders have too IT rating, infantry training and/or CT... cavalry training, having two good training generals for unassigned troops makes no sense, as only one of them will do the job, so, better, have, in example, Mcleland at washington with 16/20 militias and on second line second better infantry general with troops equals to his command points (+1/3 militias), same for cavalry, two cavalry generals stacked with two mounted troops makes that only one general will be training for cavalry, if command points is 1, only one mounted troop will be trained, meanwhile, placing 1 general, command points 1 with one mounted troop and on other region the other general, command points 1 with another mounted troops you have double training with two active training centers, as generals with inf/cav training 3/4 rating can have some success, and being in fact that each turn have two phases, makes sense to stack to them more militia than his command points, so, you have more dice training rolls on second phase, semi random and random generals optional rules makes change to this, as slighty changes on general's stats makes greater difference overall for all the game,

hope it helps a little, for me is the system that is working just fine, thanks for read,

with best regards,

murat30.

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RE: New player questions. - 7/1/2008 10:32:22 PM

alaric318

Posts: 366
Joined: 10/7/2003
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: davekinva

BTW, that leads me to a second (dumb) question that I'm sure I wouldn't ask if I had the manual in front of me right now-- what does an *Army Commander's* command points mean in game terms? If an AC has CP of 16, what does that mean in game terms? 16 units can be commanded? Or does it affect initiative rolls? How does it relate to training? I'm assuming higher CP ratings are better, but why?

Thanks for helping. . .

more CP means you can attach more units and if sub-commanders is active more sub-commanders to the leader with attached troops to themselves, this makes great difference as you, from 1862/January (1861/December For CSA) can make "corps structure" stacks, these stacks move as a single unit and once you attack them have greater chance of being commited that if they move one after other to the battle, is a good idea to have some extra sub-commanders without troops attached to the Corps Commander, as these extra generals will make better the command modifier (you can see it mouse-ing over the Corps commander or army commander) extra generals without troops do not cost command points but helps quite a bit to the overall command structure (a -2 corps commander can be -1 or +-0 with some extra "aides du camp", i want mean "high command corps staff", the change is noticeable just trough the time you assign the extra "free" commander on the corps commander ratings, so you can see how it affect overall corps command, this can make a big difference when the battle arises for the corps and his units, again, As Far As I Know, i am only learning with this game, still i are not an expert player but maybe these advice can help a bit,

with best regards,

murat30.

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There is no plan of battle that survives the contact with the enemy.

(in reply to davekinva)

Post #: 12