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Fish Kill-ChickenOfTheSea gets canned (EBO vs El Cid)-E... - 7/5/2008 7:07:24 PM

ChickenOfTheSea

Posts: 579
Joined: 6/7/2008
From: Virginia
Status: offline

I will try to start a complementary thread to El Cid's AAR. The last few weeks were very busy so I am several war0days behind.

First of all, you are probably wondering how I got involved in this in the first place. I was an early player of WITP, but got frustrated with all the bugs, patches, and restarts and went on to other things. When I got a new computer a few months ago I was checking on old software to install and decided to check out WITP again. I was really amazed at how much better things were after the patching and the user-created mods that I got re-enthused. I knew that AE was going to be coming out that would greatly enhance the standard WITP, but I was intrigued by the enhanced Japanese mods, namely El Cid's RHS-EOS family and Nemo's Empires Ablaze. First I tried the RHSMAIO to get a feel for things then I started some head-to-head solitaire EBO to get more familiar with the details, especially Japanese production. I had been feeding El Cid info on errata in EBO for some time and I talked a friend into a PBEM EOS game which we are going to restart with the new version. When El Cid looked for test games for EBO in RHS 7.91, I jumped at the chance. I have always felt that the best way to get better at anything is to eat your humble pie and learn from those who know what they are doing, so who better to learn from than the scenario designer? I was also frustrated that El Cid was not getting the sort of test games he wanted to see how things worked in this scenario. I told him that my playing style matched what he was looking for, but I might be lacking the experience and skill to pull off the active defense. I'm going to give it a try anyway.

The game is RHS-EBO 7.91. This has the new ASW model developed after JWE informed the forum about some of the details of the code. I hope he will continue to do that for AE as it is very helpful for potential modders. The house rules are pure El Cid. Other than sea lanes there are no formal rules other than what was physically, militarily, and politically possible. When playing the allies realistically, the latter point is very important and you really have to stay disciplined in this area. Yes, I have read El Cid's old AAR's and I know exactly what I am getting into. I prefer a more limited opening turn, but this is El Cid's test and I am perfectly willing to play it his way (with respect to rules that is).

This is my first AAR. While I am a professional number cruncher, I am graphically challenged. Advice on AAR's is encouraged and welcomed. This board has been extremely useful in re-learning this game, but I have much more learning to do. Advice and suggestions are also welcome, but please respect the confidentiality of El Cid's AAR's with respect to anything of intelligence value to me. All the series 10 test games use the same start so I am staying out of all of them until El Cid gives the OK. El Cid has been very generous with advice by email, letting me know strategic concerns I need to keep in mind in this mod.

One of my main intentions in this AAR is to give the viewpoint of a less experienced player up against an old sea dog including mistakes made and lessons learned. In this regard, perhaps, we are simulating the situation of the Allied and Japanese sides at the opening of the war. At least I already know that I am up against a stronger force and better player before we even start.

< Message edited by ChickenOfTheSea -- 7/12/2008 1:44:51 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Fish Kill - ChickenOfTheSea gets canned (EBO vs El ... - 7/5/2008 8:25:36 PM

ChickenOfTheSea

Posts: 579
Joined: 6/7/2008
From: Virginia
Status: offline

Pre-War thinking

The Japanese start this scenario extremely strong. They already have Me-109's and Ju-88's and more A6M2's. They have the 6 carrier KB and a 5 CVL secondary force and several CVE's. Battleships have 16.1" guns that can easily handle anything that I throw at them. They are stronger, more experienced, and at a higher technological level than the Allies in every way. As El Cid will point out, though, this force is fragile and they cannot afford heavy losses. My grand strategy, therefore, is to make this a war of attrition wherever possible. Every battle that becomes a battle of attrition is an Allied strategic victory even if the battle itself is lost. El Cid, of course, knows this and will try to prevent that from happening wherever he can. I suspect he will try to outmaneuver me to cut LOC's.

He announced in his request for opponents that he would open with a Central Pacific Offensive so I expect his Hawaiian invasion. Expecting the usual PH attack I have dispersed my fighters and search planes around Hawaii. Molokai is a marine air base now with Wildcats and Dauntlesses. I hope they can do something to make the opening interesting. Dispersing the planes is relatively safe as he can land anywhere on the first day, but not attack. A naval bombardment might be unpleasant, however. The Pacific fleet has three choices 1) stay in port 2) try to engage at possible landing sites and 3) flee. Fleeing is not my playing style and I consider it politically imthinkable and I have found that engagement here usually comes out badly if he is expecting it (they must endure naval air attacks before they can bother anything(, so we will stay in port and hope he undercommits to PH and wants to hit fleeing ships instead. The flak is nasty in this mod and El Cid dislikes the heavy losses to flak at PH. My carrier forces will be moving toward Midway in hopes of ambushing any invasion force headed that way. Johnston island will be overwhelmed on the first day and he will have Betty's up and operating with torpedoes almost immediately. Any movement in that direction is potentially disastrous. The SAG at Johnston island will flee southeast.

In the Philippines, my subs will sail immediately to mine as many landing sites as possible, then they will patrol. My S-boats will go on patrol immediately. PG's and PT's will try to defend landing sites and everything else will flee. I will try to extricated my naval and air HQ and some key airbase units. I will try to form a main defense line from Lingayen to Baguio with blocking forces at Mauban and Lucena. Fighters are dispersed out of Clark Field. Clark B17's moved to Manila.

In Malaya, I will keep 1 brigade forward each at Alor Star and Kota Bharu while delevoping a second line in the vicinity of Kuala Lampur. As the northern outposts fall, the survivors will fall back through the Kuala Lamput line to Singapore if all goes as planned (I'm sure it won't). Force Z, the CA Exeter and supporting ships from Singapore, and two CL's from Palembang will join up off Singkawang. American SAG's will try to join up at Balikpapan.

In China, the Chinese can be tough on defense but are horrible in the attack. El Cid will try to open his LOC's and try to destroy the armies near Shanghai. I will try to sit on his LOC's wherever I can and make him kick me out. We will try to get as much out of the pocket near Shanghai as we can. Elsewhere we are developing defensive bastions and trying to find anyplace to use airpower.

The Soviet Union is active, but the Soviets and Japan have a non-aggression pact and clearly neither wants war at this point. An attack by the Soviets at this point is politically unreasonable. I will try to do some defensive repositioning. I am open to suggestions here.

I have not been good at defending Burma in the past. The AVG is in Rangoon and Mandalay and I am paranoid of airborne assaults in this area. Suggestions?

In India I will moving forces to defensive positions and moving shipping back out of range of Japanese airpower.

The Dutch subs are strong from the start and I plan to use them both in aggressive patrols and mining. The Dutch naval force will take a few days to assemble at Soerabaja.

< Message edited by ChickenOfTheSea -- 7/12/2008 1:34:00 PM >

(in reply to ChickenOfTheSea)

Post #: 2

RE: Fish Kill - ChickenOfTheSea gets canned (EBO vs El ... - 7/10/2008 11:50:50 AM

ChickenOfTheSea

Posts: 579
Joined: 6/7/2008
From: Virginia
Status: offline

Unfortunately, we lost animations for the first turn. I had created a fresh folder for my game against El Cid that was corrupted. I reinstalled after the first turn and everything works fine now.

Dec. 7

There were many surprises this turn. In Hawaii, there were Japanese landings at Lahaina and Kona, but no coordinated air attack on PH.

There was a flight of 25 Kates that flew unescorted to bomb the airfield and port and 22 were destroyed by air-to-air and flak. A carrier group escorted by Zekes did attack the PG Sonoma trying to escape from Kona and I had heavy fighter losses in this engagement. Most of my P40B's were dispersed to other bases, however. More on this later. My Dauntlesses from Molokai attacked the invasion fleet at Lahaina and damaged a couple of transports.

Wake and Johnston were both invaded in force and fell the first turn. My surface group fleeing Johnston got hit by Kates from the 5 CVL force guarding the Johnston invasion and the DMS Dorsey was hit. Both will have Betty's and/or Nell's immediately and it looked like Johnston was captured virtually undamaged. Another invasion force hit Nauru and it was captured by a force of 509 men and 25 guns. The supply sink here didn't provide much opposition although he only got 2-1.

Farther west there were landings at Guam, Kavieng and Rabaul and Buna (airborne? captured). There were also landings at Hollandia, Kendari, Sorong(airborne? captured), and Amboina(snuffed). The force at Amboina evaporated, but the invasion of Kendari seems substantial and is cause for alarm.

In the Philippines, there were landings at Aparri, Legaspi, Naga, Jolo, and Cagayan(small, snuffed). Clark field was really hammered, but the only aircraft present were those unable to fly. The rest were dispersed. My subs are heading out to lay mines, but I think he is already ashore at most of the places he wants to be. The early fall of Jolo will make the evacuation of merchant shipping problematic. I forgot to reset the course for PG Isabel and it got pounded in Malnila Bay by Kates from CVE's.

In northern Borneo, the Japanese have landed at both Brunei and Kuching. The Japanese are landing at river bases in Thailand and Tavoy was captured in a surprise attack(airborne?). There were no attacks in Malaya and my search planes are picking up nothing. I suspect he will be landing to the north and coming overland. There were, however, heavy air raids on the northern Malayan bases and for some reason, my flak units are just sitting on their thumbs. They must have come in at tea time.

China saw attacks at Hong Kong, Wuchang/Wuhan, and Sinyang. Hong Kong is reduced to level 5 but holding. Chinese forces investing Sinyang are driven off, but the Japanese attack on Wuchang/Wuhan is stopped cold. I reinforced here and should be able to hold until he can get his LOC cleared and can return in force. The Changsha-Hengchow area is my most hold spot. I am moving supplies by river to my forces outside Ichang in hopes of a limited offensive here.

The lack of a meaningful air attack on PH has me very suspicious. My carriers and search planes are finding nothing approaching Midway. I see a battleship force nearing Lahaina with the KB camped out in that area. I think he hoped I would sail the Pacific fleet where it could be pounded by the KB away from the flak protection of PH and where they would sink before reaching a repair facility. Perhaps this Hawaiian invasion is only a feint to draw out my battlefleet. The PH airfield is undamaged and my dispersed fighters can return to PH intact and ready. If he goes for a big port attack now, his losses will be heavy. The fleet will stay at PH for now until I am convinced the invasion is real or the KB is sufficiently weakened due to air attrition.

< Message edited by ChickenOfTheSea -- 7/12/2008 1:10:43 PM >

(in reply to ChickenOfTheSea)

Post #: 3

RE: Fish Kill - ChickenOfTheSea gets canned (EBO vs El ... - 7/12/2008 1:31:36 PM

ChickenOfTheSea

Posts: 579
Joined: 6/7/2008
From: Virginia
Status: offline

My Kuching debacle (Dec 8 Hawaii time - Dec 9 local).

As I described previously, my plan was to have 3 small British fleets meet up near Singkawang (1 hex out), then join up to have a potent force to contend with his invasions. The fleets were Force Z (BB, BC, 2 DD), the Exeter group from Singapore (CA, CL, 2 DD), and a CL group from Palembang (2 CL). Once formed up we would have a considerable threat (BB, BC. CA. 3 CL. 4 DD). I set all groups to have Batavia as their home base as a reaction range in hopes of reacting to any potential operations aimed at northern Java or southern Sumatra. This is where it all went wrong. As they reached their assembly point during the night phase of this turn Kuching was now within their reaction range (I think this is why this happened). As a result, Force Z and the CA Exeter group charged into Kuching (where the Japanese were invading), but as separate groups. The BC Repulse was hit by a torpedo from a Betty. As a result Force Z split up and failed to engage the enemy in surface combat. An enemy cruiser force engaged the Exeter group and mauled it. Only the Exeter survived, but is so badly damaged it is unlikely to reach port.

Now the British surface threat is shattered in this sector and must withdraw and regroup. I am assembng a Dutch battlefleet at Soerabaja and an American one at Balikpapan.

(in reply to ChickenOfTheSea)

Post #: 4

RE: Fish Kill - ChickenOfTheSea gets canned (EBO vs El ... - 7/12/2008 1:58:33 PM

ChickenOfTheSea

Posts: 579
Joined: 6/7/2008
From: Virginia
Status: offline

It appears that this game has ended due to game-killing bugs. See the scenario design section for details. I will continue to provide some lowlights and highlights from my end (I am several days behind El Cid in my AAR). I am also opening this up to El Cid in case he wishes to comment.

(in reply to ChickenOfTheSea)

Post #: 5

RE: Fish Kill - ChickenOfTheSea gets canned (EBO vs El ... - 7/12/2008 4:17:53 PM

ChickenOfTheSea

Posts: 579
Joined: 6/7/2008
From: Virginia
Status: offline

More events of Dec. 8.

A Japanese fleet with 4 battleships bombarded Lahaina. This surprised me as I assumed this was a surface action group covering the invasion. I hope the AF and port were damaged as I am about to be overwhelmed here. Once again there was no major attack on PH. We launched a raid on the KB from PH, but they were chewed up by the Zeke's on CAP. A few bombers got through but hit nothing. I was thrilled when the SS Pollack launched torpedoes on the BB Yamashiro.

That is until I got the inevitable "torpedoes fail to detonate" message. Arggh!

Both Lahaina and Kona fall. The Lahaina base force retreats to Molokai. I am moving planes back to PH from threatened areas.

My CV's are still seeing nothing approaching Midway. I am picking up a lot of radio chatter west of Wake I. My new intelligence assessment is that this is a real invasion. He controls Wake and Johnston where he can place Betty's. I think he wants to bring the follow-up forces via Wake and Johnston and my CV's are too valuable to risk an attack in that sector.
I think he his willing to play a waiting game in Hawaii while he brings up the rest of his force. There seems to be a lot of tankers at Lahaina to give him all the fuel he needs. We will need to try a pre-emptive strike to disrupt his plans. Tomorrow.

Farther west, Guam, Kavieng, Rabaul all fall. An airborne force takes Kappa Kappa (is that a sorority?) The approaches to NE Australia are opening up nicely for him and I don't have much to fight with yet. Ground forces are moving north to defend Queensland.

In the Philippines, Appari, Naga, Legaspi, and Jolo all fall. The attack at Legaspi reveals two infantry divisions each supported by an armored rgt. Whoops! My major defensive line runs from Lingayen to Baguio. I am caught out of position and will need to shift southward. Lucena is clear terrain and has no forts, not a good place to defend from, but I must keep him out of Manila as long as possible. The capture of Jolo will make it easy for him to destroy my shipping fleeing the Philippines. I am busy laying mines to slow him down, but we are in real trouble here.

After the naval debacle at Kuching he captures the base. Brunei is holding, but not for long. Kendari is holding against an infantry brigade, but also is unlikely to hold long. I expect to lose a lot of fleeing shipping.

Naval units have fled Hong Kong with some being destroyed. I sent a small tanker with oil and what looks like a large inner tube with resources up the Pearl River to Wuchow. Those ships are doomed and just trying to keep things out of Japanese hands. After submitting the turn, however, I wasn't sure if it was militarily possible to sail past Canton even though we are playing with the open river pwhex file making it possible in game terms. I will have to check with El Cid about this.

My northern bases in Malaya continue to get pounded and there is no flak. I thought maybe this was a bug, but when I looked, his initial attacks had pretty well wiped out my anti-air capability. I decided to move the Victoria Pt. base to Port Blair to support air unit withdrawal from Malaya if needed.

El Cid is aggressively moving his subs right into my ports. So far ASW units are completely ineffective even with what seems to be good detection levels. (This eventually turned out to be one of the game-killing bugs). I have started putting almost all aircraft not otherwise employed on ASW to drive him out of my ports and I am starting to get some hits,

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RE: Fish Kill - ChickenOfTheSea gets canned (EBO vs El ... - 7/13/2008 4:38:24 PM

ChickenOfTheSea

Posts: 579
Joined: 6/7/2008
From: Virginia
Status: offline

Dec. 9 - Operation "Do Something Before It's Too Late"

Yesterday, Adm Kimmel changed his mind and decided that the Hawaiian Invasion was more than a feint, especially since there are a large number of tankers set to unload fuel at Lahaina. If he is allowed to repair and build up the airfield he will be able to close down PH airfield without risking losses to the KB attack planes. The fuel with allow extensive long term carrier operations from the area.

Therefore I decided to do two things. A multiple group attack on shipping at Lahaina and reinforcing Molokai with am infantry regiment (from the 24th Div). Lahaina will be at night hit by two battlefleets. Each will have 3 BB, CA, 2 CL, and 6 DD. There will also be 2 PT groups of 6 boats each, and a couple of subs to go after the wounded. A smaller fleet of 2 BB, 2 CL, and several DD will cover the landing at Molokai if contested by a surface fleet. Any bombers that can still fly from PH will be range-limited to cover the Molokai operations. If all comes off as planned, one battlefleet will engage his main battleship force and hopefully allow the other to penetrate to engage the KB or the transport fleet. All that survive with sufficient speed will be back at Pearl for the expected KB counterstrike. Meanwhile since PH is still undamaged, we will be flying several groups of B17's in from the mainland. These will contest Hawaii for awhile before heading off to Australia.

Of course, nothing goes as planned. One battlefleet engaged the Japanese BB's as intended. The other balked (apparently at the presence of the KB even though it was supposed to be a night attack only) leaving my bold commander at Lahaina hung out to dry. There was an initial engagement at Lahaina with only a few shots fired. The two fleets re-engaged for a more serious fight. I had forgotten that in this mod the Japanese BB's start with 16.1" guns and they were used very effectively. The Tennessee and the Maryland got hit pretty hard, but my flagship the West Virginia aquitted itself well. Two of the 4 Japanese BB's got hit with 16" shells and were set afire. The Tennessee was sufficiently crippled that she would be sunk by aircraft before returning to PH. One PT group hit the transports and put 2 torpedoes into an AP. The other PT group engaged the BB's and used their MG's to severely scratch their paint. The reinforcement of Molokai was successful but the Pennsylvania and California both took significant damage. In the non-sailing group, the Arizona was hit by 3 torpedoes from Kates. The commander who failed to sail was put in a canoe and told to join the infantry defending Molokai.

Before the attack was over I suffered 1 BB sunk and 4 seriously damaged along with some damage to CA's and CL's. The Molokai operation was successful and since it is mountainous, he will probably need a full division to take the place. I do still have 3 undamaged BB's with enough striking power to keep him wary. He had 2 BB's damaged enough that they will need to be withdrawn for repairs. However, the transport fleet was barely scratched and his buildup of Lahaina will continue. In a few days, I will try to do something about that with by incoming B17's. I sure wish my pilots were better.

I think a better coordinated attack, however, might have done some serious damage. Against a player better than myself, failure to knock out PH early may come back to haunt you.

(in reply to ChickenOfTheSea)

Post #: 7