RE: BAD: St. Petersburg problem (and other nasty deviations)

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Empires in Arms the Napoleonic Wars of 1805 - 1815 >> RE: BAD: St. Petersburg problem (and other nasty deviations)

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RE: BAD: St. Petersburg problem (and other nasty deviat... - 7/5/2008 9:49:52 PM

NeverMan

Posts: 1722
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: StCyr
you got so much input during all these years from so many people addicted to this game, ignoring so much of it...

This is my biggest criticism. So much good advice (that they asked for) down the drain and NOT used. They basically did whatever they wanted to (or whatever that EiH guy convinced them was good, damn crackpot!) instead of listening to the people who are going to actually play and buy the game. Too bad really.

(in reply to StCyr)

Post #: 31

RE: BAD: St. Petersburg problem (and other nasty deviat... - 7/6/2008 10:50:36 AM

Ashtar

Posts: 160
Joined: 12/6/2007
Status: offline

quote:

Marshall:
The two capital scenario may force me to make DB structural changes that will OBSOLETE ALL current games! That OK?

Thanks for your reply Marshall!

Just one question: is it really difficult to have an automatic converter, that is a simple code which reads in input the sav files done with the old DB structure and outputs the sav files good for the new DB structure?

I imagine the problem of OBSOLETE games is that you will have to add a few new fields (like second Russian capitals or evasion orders for fleets in the sav fields) in the sav files so that the new code will not be able to read old sav anymore, but I do not see any particular reason for old the sav files not being easily convertible to the new format:
read them in input, and write them in output adding the new fields values (eventually initialized in some arbitrary way)
where needed...

Am I missing something?

(in reply to pzgndr)

Post #: 32

RE: BAD: St. Petersburg problem (and other nasty deviat... - 7/6/2008 3:16:13 PM

gwheelock

Posts: 563
Joined: 12/27/2007
From: Coon Rapids, Minnesota
Status: offline

Another possibility would be to wrap those sections of code in conditional blocks
Either :

IF Exists(newdbfieldname) THEN
<code for processing new field>
ENDIF

If an automatic converter is too messy; create a MANUAL one that is run
on a game to update the files & anyone planning to upgrade runs this
(once) before running the updated code.

or

IF Exists(newdbfieldname) THEN
<code branch for integrating new field with game >
ELSE
<existing code that only handles old field formats >
ENDIF

(in reply to Ashtar)

Post #: 33

RE: BAD: St. Petersburg problem (and other nasty deviat... - 7/6/2008 4:11:36 PM

pzgndr

Posts: 3170
Joined: 3/18/2004
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

This is my biggest criticism. So much good advice (that they asked for) down the drain and NOT used.

Up to now, sure. That's not to say Marshall is not listening now and, as he has indicated, he is willing to resolve issues. I keep looking at the bug tracker list and it seems fairly complete regarding rules deviations and other feature enhancements that everyone keeps asking for. So I wouldn't keep saying it's all down the drain, just not implemented yet.

What else needs to be on the bug list? If anyone has good advice for fixing/improving the game that is not already being tracked for eventual resolution, then add an item for consideration. Yesterday is done and over with. Look ahead, yes?

(in reply to NeverMan)

Post #: 34

RE: BAD: St. Petersburg problem (and other nasty deviat... - 7/6/2008 8:51:39 PM

Marshall Ellis

Posts: 5630
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ashtar

quote:

Marshall:
The two capital scenario may force me to make DB structural changes that will OBSOLETE ALL current games! That OK?

Thanks for your reply Marshall!

Just one question: is it really difficult to have an automatic converter, that is a simple code which reads in input the sav files done with the old DB structure and outputs the sav files good for the new DB structure?

I imagine the problem of OBSOLETE games is that you will have to add a few new fields (like second Russian capitals or evasion orders for fleets in the sav fields) in the sav files so that the new code will not be able to read old sav anymore, but I do not see any particular reason for old the sav files not being easily convertible to the new format:
read them in input, and write them in output adding the new fields values (eventually initialized in some arbitrary way)
where needed...

Am I missing something?

I guess I should qualify by saying not too difficult but time consuming. Anything could be done given enough time. What I am saying is that if I went down this road AND had to maintain game compatibility then it would push the new release out even further.

_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games

(in reply to Ashtar)

Post #: 35

RE: BAD: St. Petersburg problem (and other nasty deviat... - 7/7/2008 9:54:35 AM

Ashtar

Posts: 160
Joined: 12/6/2007
Status: offline

quote:

Marshall:
I guess I should qualify by saying not too difficult but time consuming. Anything could be done given enough time. What I am saying is that if I went down this road AND had to maintain game compatibility then it would push the new release out even further.

Personally, I am not worried about quickness, I just would like to have a good EIA and not to throw away my existing pbem games I have been patiently running for months now. So I say yes to the game converter...

I guess 1.03 will soon be out with AI improvement, pp gain/loss for loaned corps and fleets and a series of potentially crashing bugs solved.

My (very personal) suggestion is to follow with a 1.04 containing: naval evasion, St. Petesburg problem solved, 1/2 pp per fleet in combat, naval pursuit, supply chain rules correctly fixed, blockade box combat fixed, the kingdom of Italy added (it has the greatest impact on gameplay of the missing political combinations), a
sav file converter for compatibility and an editor for pp, gold, manpower and victory points (usable by the host only - this could be used to correct a lot of minor
problems which could appear during game).
Ah, when you will touch the database, I could also be sweet to see the single defending corps being able to ask for reinforcement from nearby friendly stacks
and to guard commit (either by a better AI or by adding new fields to the orders list)

In my opinion this will finally make EIA a great game - no crashes, working rules and playable AI, if you can manage it.

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)

Post #: 36

RE: BAD: St. Petersburg problem (and other nasty deviat... - 7/7/2008 10:56:45 PM

baboune

Posts: 121
Joined: 6/1/2003
Status: offline

1.04 must contain some UI fixes like zoom in/out.

(in reply to Ashtar)

Post #: 37

RE: BAD: St. Petersburg problem (and other nasty deviat... - 7/8/2008 8:56:23 AM

jnier

Posts: 402
Joined: 2/18/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: baboune

1.04 must contain some UI fixes like zoom in/out.

No, UI improvements should be lowest on the list. After bug fixes and gameplay enhancement. Lets get the game working properly first.

(in reply to baboune)

Post #: 38

RE: BAD: St. Petersburg problem (and other nasty deviat... - 7/8/2008 8:15:41 PM

baboune

Posts: 121
Joined: 6/1/2003
Status: offline

I disagree.� This is a great game enhancement.�
Being able to see units is important.

I am not even suggesting to adapt to higher screen resolution.

< Message edited by baboune -- 7/8/2008 8:16:07 PM >

(in reply to jnier)

Post #: 39

RE: BAD: St. Petersburg problem (and other nasty deviat... - 7/8/2008 10:20:05 PM

adrianthomson

Posts: 17
Joined: 1/18/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ashtar

Being still in a cooperative mood, I summarize in the following simple way to solve the major problems. I understand you are focused on AI now, and that a commercial product needs an AI to sell, but please try to understand that EIA fans just want a working pbem. I strongly doubt that an AI will ever be a serious challange for an experienced player.

I whole heartedly disagree. I don't give a damn about PBEM players. I want a stand alone game which is what was advertised.

Adrian

(in reply to Ashtar)

Post #: 40

RE: BAD: St. Petersburg problem (and other nasty deviat... - 7/8/2008 10:59:59 PM

Ashtar

Posts: 160
Joined: 12/6/2007
Status: offline

quote:

I whole heartedly disagree. I don't give a damn about PBEM players. I want a stand alone game which is what was advertised.

It is always nice to read a polite objection to your arguments.
Apart from the fact that this game was advertised as both pbem AND stand alone, what is unclear in

quote:

Ashtar:
I guess 1.03 will soon be out with AI improvement, pp gain/loss for loaned corps and fleets and a series of potentially crashing bugs solved. My (very personal) suggestion is to follow with a 1.04 containing (..)
In my opinion this will finally make EIA a great game - no crashes, working rules and playable AI, if you can manage it.

?

Mind, without a completely balanced set of rules - which we do not have now - even the stand-alone game will be unsatisfactory

(in reply to adrianthomson)

Post #: 41

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Empires in Arms the Napoleonic Wars of 1805 - 1815 >> RE: BAD: St. Petersburg problem (and other nasty deviations)

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