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RE: Operation Tora, Phase TWO Map

 
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RE: Operation Tora, Phase TWO Map - 7/10/2008 8:14:49 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		This goes without saying but Dan was massively confused as to how the Americans got it handed to them. 

Could I ask that joint readers PLEASE not reveal my secrets for this fight in his AAR or through PM?  Really appreciate it because I will--probably--have to use it again.


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Post #: 901
RE: Operation Tora, Phase TWO Map - 7/10/2008 8:17:43 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		OK.  Sent the turn on to Dan and raised CAP to 60%.  This should provide roughly 300+ fighters for defense of the Fleet.

EVERYTHING else in Japan has CAP ZERO and Bombers ordered to attack!

Let Dec 7th--once again--be a GLORIOUS day for Japan.

Am headed to bed since the boys will be up in 5 hours...

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 7/10/2008 8:20:00 AM >

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Post #: 902
RE: Operation Tora, Phase TWO Map - 7/10/2008 8:34:25 AM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		Ah, I think this is a mistake... He is likely to have a lot of fighters available for CAP ( assume that he had 80% CAP so he should have 480 fighters for fleet defence). You won a victory but not the sort of victory which robs him of the ability to defend himself.

By sending few fighters in you are likely to create a situation where you lose a lot of those fighters to very little gain.

IMO it might have been better to:
a) LRCAP the fleets from Japan ( that should have gotten 200 to 300 planes over the fleet ),
b) set your own CV-based fighters to 10% CAP - which should have gotten you close to 500 escorts.

That way you would have either:
a) brushed through his CAP easily if it was weak or ( and if it was weak the 200 to 300 land-based fighters would have provided more than enough CAP
b) ensured mutual destruction of both your fighters and his if he has 400+ fighters available.

That would be fine since the point is to destroy those fighters so that your LBA has a clear shot at the enemy ships. I fear that your mid-range choice --- ostensibly the safe option - means that you aren't capitalising on your victory and will suffer moderate losses without actually achieving anything decisive. Now is NOT the time for half-measures. You need decisive results and so this is the time that you need to use up your naval air units, even unto destruction, IMO.

Just my opinion obviously. Basically though I would have zeroed the CAP from the CVs and LRCAPed from Japan and relied on the CV fighters to break the enemy CAP. You have done the opposite. If he is weak what you have done will still work. If he is as strong as I fear then what I suggest would have been better. We'll see.

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 903
RE: Operation Tora, Phase TWO Map - 7/10/2008 8:49:59 AM   
bigbaba


Posts: 1238
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: Koblenz, Germany
Status: offline 		damnd nice work, john. you let us totaly forget who yamamoto was.

can you please post us a acreenshot of your top fighter pilots kill numbers? i realy like to see, what amazeing numbers your aces have after this slaughter!

banzai! banzai! banzai!

(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 904
RE: Operation Tora, Phase TWO Map - 7/10/2008 1:48:02 PM   
munited18


Posts: 182
Joined: 9/5/2004
From: Texas
Status: offline 		John,

Just another lurker here. Wanted to say that this AAR has been very enjoyable to read. However, I have learned two very important things while reading. Although I consider myself a decent tactical guy, I realize that playing in a PBEM throws that all out the window. Some of the things you have encountered AND done were so left field to me that I am not sure if I will EVER play a PBEM!!!. Due, of course, to simply no desire to have my a$$ handed to me long distance! Secondly, I am now worried about playing as Japan even against a bumbling AI!!!! That economy is just plain scary and may be beyond the limits of my non-imaginative thinking capacity!
I, too, have discovered WITPtracker and believe that Floyd and Damian are stinking brilliant! Still, I am sure that the Japanese empire would be fighting with sea water and cardboard if I had to be in charge of all that production!

Anyway, good luck on the coming CV free for all and if you keep posting, I'll keep reading

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(in reply to bigbaba)
Post #: 905
RE: Operation Tora, Phase TWO Map - 7/10/2008 3:24:10 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Just got up after 5 hours of sleep and am consoling Dan on his defeat.  He--once again--is thinking about throwing in the towel.  We'll see what he does this morning.

I appreciate the advice and I concur with the thinking.  My brain chewed on this during the night I feel that I have made a mistake in ordering everything to attack on the 7th.  We'll have to see what Dan does and what the results bring.

Based on the 7th, I will form a new plan of action to exploit the situation.  Dan wrote and said that his CV TF reacted--without orders to do so--so he cannot replenish from his CVEs.  This has him highly worried and trying to decide what to do.  I've never worked with Allied CVEs so I don't know how that works.  I gave him my opinion as to his two choices and played up my LBA to, perhaps, get him to abandon the Support Ships in his Fleet.

It should be an interesting turn whenever I get it...

I will post a screenshot on my Aces in just a minute.

munited--you made me really laugh when I read your posting!  Welcome to the company of the AAR.  Feel free to jump in whenever you want.


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Post #: 906
Aces - 7/10/2008 3:37:28 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		As per the request:






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 907
RE: Aces - 7/10/2008 4:50:31 PM   
bigbaba


Posts: 1238
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: Koblenz, Germany
Status: offline 		wow, a nate pilot is your best ace. never thought that. put him out of this flying coffin. he alone is more worth then a entire nate squadran.

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Post #: 908
RE: Aces - 7/10/2008 5:21:59 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bigbaba

wow, a nate pilot is your best ace. never thought that. put him out of this flying coffin. he alone is more worth then a entire nate squadran.



Pretty sure the reason why this ace is flying a Nate is because he´s in a daitai that is somewhere flying training runs and the daitai was downgraded from Tojo or Tony to Nates during their training.

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Post #: 909
December 7th all over AGAIN! - 7/10/2008 5:28:50 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Or Dan could choose Option 3---Continue with the Invasion!

Ohhh My Lord...let us see how many dozen ships we can sink. Results for December 7, 1943:

Sunk
CVE Altamaha, Copahee, and Prince William
BB Oklahoma and North Carolina
SS Cisco
1 LCI
3 AK

Damaged
CV Franklin
CVE 5
BB Mississippi
CLAA Juneau
3-4 Dozen AK/AP

Luckily out of 12 Strikes flown only two Strikes hit the American CVs and it cost heavily. In exchange for 105 F6F and damage to CV Franklin (on Fire) and BB Mississippi I lose a total of 208 Zero (M5/M3a), 20 DB, and 49 TB. OUCH!

It is nasty but I took a quick look at some of the Daitai and they are way down on planes but NOT pilots. This was true to 8 Daitai that I glanced at so I'll post pilot losses in a while.

My leading Ace is in a Nate because he is training up his Sentai in China!

I'm late to see my Father so take a look at the screenshot...









Attachment (1)

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Post #: 910
Thoughts prior to another day of excitement... - 7/11/2008 12:23:49 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Dan and I didn't get another turn in today due to two things:

1.  I had a long visit with my Father
2.  It took nearly 3 hours to do the turn!

I just sent it to my opponent and need to take some aspirin for the headache I now have.

I will summarize the moves:
1.  EVERY plane available within a 2,000 mile radius has been pulled into Japan.  I stripped Okinawa, Formosa, China, the Philippines, Marcus, and the Aleutians for tomorrow's attack.  I moved nearly 2,000 planes and that is not a lie!

2.  The Objectives for tomorrow are two:
a.  The invasion force landing at Hakodate will be attacked by everything I have (2,000+ planes).  The goal is to completely wipe out the American Fleet that is presently there.  It will be bloody as all bombers are set at 3,000 Ft and there are numerous TB/DB ready to go.  Each AF in Japan is crammed (but not over the rules limits) from Kyoto to Sapporo.  The Strike Aircraft are set to only attack Hakodate by limiting the range.  No CV attacks for tomorrow from LBA.

b.  The KB will attack the American CVs again.  I have replenished my Zeros and set CAP at 10%.  There should be 500 Zero and about 100 Attack Bombers assaulting the CVs.  The goal is to finish off the American Hellcats so my bombers can freely attack the day after.

Dan has taken the barren rock of Kunashiri just NE of Hokkaido and landed on Etorofu Jima.  Neither of these locations are/were defended.  In an effort to avoid a repeat of Tori Shima (aka Mos Eisley Space Port) I asked Dan to please use Etorofu Jima if he intends to replenish.  I think this is a reasonable request.  EJ has a Sz-3 Port and could be used.  I am thankful that AE corrects this issue for the future.

Since I hit 8 CVE during the Dec 7th turn (sank 3 of them and put Torps into 4 others) I bet he doesn't have that many CVE for replenishment anyway...

That is the plan.  What say you?

PS  I tallied up my fighter pilots losses from Dec 7th and it was marginally OK.  I lost a total of 209 Zero but lost only 169 pilots.  This is bad but better then losing ALL of them.


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Post #: 911
RE: Thoughts prior to another day of excitement... - 7/11/2008 1:42:37 AM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
...Dan has taken the barren rock of Kunashiri just NE of Hokkaido and landed on Etorofu Jima.  Neither of these locations are/were defended.  In an effort to avoid a repeat of Tori Shima (aka Mos Eisley Space Port) I asked Dan to please use Etorofu Jima if he intends to replenish.  I think this is a reasonable request.  EJ has a Sz-3 Port and could be used.  I am thankful that AE corrects this issue for the future.



John...You may be a bit too hard on Dan in this case, Kunashiri is not really a barren rock. It's 50 miles long, heavily forested and has plenty of fresh water. There would be innumerable leeward (???whatever you call the side away from the wind) anchorages and there is a reasonably sheletered anchorage at the Southern end. It would be a much more stable place to offload supplies than the Normandy beaches, for eg. Of course, it would still be a task to reload 16 in. shells.....


< Message edited by Cap Mandrake -- 7/11/2008 1:57:05 AM >

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Post #: 912
RE: Thoughts prior to another day of excitement... - 7/11/2008 2:25:29 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Hey Mandrake!  I am still waiting on Nate's turn so I can send you ours.

I don't have a problem with the image or the potential.  The PROBLEM I have is that either side could replenish their ENTIRE force in less then 24 hours.  That is a load of crap!    If the time was scaled by the Port size then I would be better about this but I hate what can be done.

Dan wrote and said he would think about it.

I am starting a new Thread entitled 'Sleepless Nights' to see what insanity we, as players, have done while waiting for a turn or battle result.



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Post #: 913
RE: Thoughts prior to another day of excitement... - 7/11/2008 2:32:48 AM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		It is kind of weird that I can only load 200 x the size of the port in supplies per day, but I can pull in the whole Allied fleet to a size 1 port and refuel/resupply every ship in 44.
And I still have time to get drunk and stumble back to the ship before it leaves port the next day.  

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Post #: 914
RE: Thoughts prior to another day of excitement... - 7/11/2008 2:36:47 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Thank You Michael---I rest my point!



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Post #: 915
RE: Thoughts prior to another day of excitement... - 7/11/2008 3:43:57 AM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
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From: Southern California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

It is kind of weird that I can only load 200 x the size of the port in supplies per day, but I can pull in the whole Allied fleet to a size 1 port and refuel/resupply every ship in 44.
And I still have time to get drunk and stumble back to the ship before it leaves port the next day.  


And just where do you think you could get drunk on Kunashiri

You could now because the Russians own it.

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Post #: 916
RE: Thoughts prior to another day of excitement... - 7/11/2008 3:52:29 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Wodka!

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Post #: 917
RE: Thoughts prior to another day of excitement... - 7/11/2008 2:58:53 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Running Dan's first turn of the morning...

BANZAI!

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Post #: 918
December 8, 1943 - 7/11/2008 5:12:25 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		I cannot load bombs and Torps fast enough!






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 919
December 9, 1943 - 7/11/2008 10:32:22 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		The wild American Offensive continues with the Americans desperately landing EVERYWHERE! The most important element is that the Americans haven't grabbed a single major Port/AF yet. Each day allows me to hammer the American Fleet and inflict what can only be described as grevious losses.

Today's totals are listed on the screenshot but I should note that there were 3 afternoon Japanese strikes of nearly 400 bombers that didn't connect due to only a single crippled ship absorbing the attack.

Tomorrow will feature more of the same but I expect to lose Sapporo unless my 200+ Transports can fly in enough troops to hold it against the American Landing. It does have Lvl-7 Forts. If I hold it then things will move along rapidly. If not, I will consolidate Hakodate and then move north.

Additonally, I have been able to rest my Fighters at Nagoya and Osaka for 4 days now and they will be ready to fight an Allied Fighter threat once a real AF does fall.

My first reinforcing Inf Div will land in 2 days with another a day behind that. This will give me 4 Inf Div at Hakodate to advance with.

The KB flew strikes again but is low on sorties so I will 'retire' towards Ominato which allows me to continue attacking AND replenish at a REAL port (Sz-6). Once it does replenish then it will seek out and engage the American CVs cowering about Sakalin Island!

BANZAI!








Attachment (1)

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Post #: 920
RE: December 9, 1943 - 7/12/2008 6:50:06 AM   
bigbaba


Posts: 1238
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: Koblenz, Germany
Status: offline 		nearly 80! AP/AK sunk/damaged in ONE day!

if you show this excellent preformance few days more, the yanks have to swim back to PH.

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Post #: 921
RE: December 9, 1943 - 7/12/2008 9:01:08 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Thanks bigbaba!  I found that I couldn't read my own writing and need to change the sinking totals from the above screenshot:  27 AK, 5 AP, 1 AO, 1 MSW, 3 LST, 3 LCI, and 1 DE.  The damaged numbers stay about the same.

Few other thoughts:
1.  I kept the KB in the fight for one more day before replenishing at Wakkanai.  Current loadout for the KB is 569 Zero, 135 Dive Bomber, and 91 Torpedo Bomber. 
2.  I strip away the heavy guns from the KB for some serious surface action.  Three STF are created:
a.  3 BB and 6 DD head for Wakkanai to protect it from landings.
b.  1 BC, 3 CA, 1 CL, and 7 DD to Sapporo to cause trouble.
c.  3 CA, 1 CL, and 6 DD to the same for the same purpose.
3.  There were several ships repairing when this insanity started and they will arrive to help the STF defending Hakodate.  1 BB, 1 CL, and 3 DD will add to the 2 CA, 2 CL, 5 DD currently holding the location.

That small TF managed to sink--by itself--on the 9th a total of 15 AK and 2 AP at Hakodate!  They sank a convoy carrying the entire 54th Aviation Regiment.  The losses were pegged at 5,600 troops.  They sank ships in another convoy for a further 1,600 casualties. 

Dan is landing but these troops are disrupted, arriving with little supply, and are ripe for the picking once things settle down...

The Americans also landed at Adak in the Aleutians.  They flew into a storm of bombers from Amchitka but still got troops ashore.  Expect to lose that island (AF-1 Pt-1) tomorrow.  To add to the casualties I moved another 36 Betty up there raising the total to nearly 90 flying from that base.

Nearly 200 transport planes are now lifting the 18th Inf Div to Sapporo to TRY and hold it.  The 3rd Marine Division is landing there so I doubt whether I can keep it for more then a day or two.  The Port has Lvl-7 Forts so some Infantry might be able to hold out.  Additionally there is the very real possiblity that the 3rd Marines weren't prepped for this target so they are a mess as well...


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Post #: 922
RE: December 9, 1943 - 7/12/2008 11:27:27 PM   
Andvari

 

Posts: 91
Joined: 9/7/2006
Status: offline 		John,

I started reading your AAR a couple of weeks ago when you replied to some related threads about CV battles. Pretty damned exciting! I'm more into your game than I am my own right now.

I know you're in the middle of major operations on and around Hokkaido, but when you get a chance post a situational map of China. You asked a few days ago where all the troops were coming from in the Burma theatre. It could be China.

If the Nanning/Canton corridor is lightly held, an offensive in this area could help you in the long run. You might be able to free up some troops to use around Hanoi for defense later.

Anyway, good luck in the Home Islands!

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Post #: 923
RE: December 9, 1943 - 7/12/2008 11:36:34 PM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline 		John, this is great stuff, as always!  Both the game and your AAR are very fun and exciting!  Keep it up! 

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to Andvari)
Post #: 924
RE: December 9, 1943 - 7/13/2008 12:06:10 AM   
EUBanana


Posts: 4552
Joined: 9/30/2003
From: Little England
Status: offline 		I think its looking bad for Canoerebel here to be honest.  Sure, he's got his lodgment and all, and in the short term he seems to be at least giving as good as he gets, but in the medium term, he's surely going to have serious problems supplying and reinforcing Hokkaido, while the Japs will be in Stalingrad mode, sending out the tanks and aircraft from the factory straight into battle...

But it'll be fun to see play out. 


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Post #: 925
RE: December 9, 1943 - 7/13/2008 1:04:01 AM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		It'll all come down to logistics, as always and what will determine the enemy's ability to push supplies through to his newly captured bases  is his posession of carriers.

So, it all comes down to destroying the USN CVs ASAP. That has to be the ultimate priority here - although, obviously, IJA bomber raids and IJN bombardment runs to keep the enemy airbases at Sakhalin etc closed

(in reply to EUBanana)
Post #: 926
December 10, 1943 - 7/13/2008 8:24:03 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Thanks for all the comments guys. I have never been in a situation like this before. The turns take hours to crank out! We only got one in today due to it being our local home town "La Salle Day" with parade, park fun and games, BBQ, and fireworks.

I grow more confident by the turn in the destruction of a massive number of American troops. On Hakkaido alone there might be upwards of 100,000+ prisoners possible. My troops begin unloading tomorrow and I will have nearly 100,000 fresh soldiers at Hakodate by December 15th. His troops are in pieces, poorly supplied, and cutoff by my command of the sea through Surface TF and LBA.

Got some CV damage inflicted today with Franklin heavily damaged as well as CVL Bataan. Will make another crack at his forces (maximum effort) tomorrow. My planes are fragmented, tired, and excited to be doing the Emporer's bidding!

Banzai!

Current Screenshot with information:



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Post #: 927
December 10, 1943 - 7/13/2008 8:26:18 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Forgot to attach the Screenshot!






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 928
December 11-12, 1943: Game, Set, Match - 7/14/2008 10:25:53 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		The war is over my readers. Read the screenshot notes!



I cannot stop the ENTIRE American Army, Marine Corps, and Navy. Dan has literally put everything into this one basket and, despite all the horrific losses and logic, has managed to land and take Sakhalin Island and many points to the east. This was not planned on because his forces attacked with hardly any strength but they took what wasn't defended and drove out what was.

Hey we should commend those LASER-EYED 4EB for their ability to do what couldn't be done for two years of war. SINK my CVs! I hate those damned planes...

Hokkaido will be retaken--that is fact--but I can do nothing else and the aerial bombardment of the Home Islands starts very soon...



Rather down-in-the-dumps at the moment. Dan has been taking about ending the campaign due to it taking up too much time, emotion, and energy. I disagreed with him until the last couple of days where it has taken hours to give orders for one turn, then waiting, and finally watching it play out. Feel mentally eghausted...



Here is the Screenshot:





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 7/14/2008 10:27:23 PM >

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Post #: 929
RE: December 11-12, 1943: Game, Set, Match - 7/14/2008 10:50:42 PM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		Did you not bombard the airfields in Sakhalin the instant they fell? Bombardment + IJA bomber runs was always going to be your only defence against masses of 4E being based there.

Any chance of seeing the combat replay?

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 930
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