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Still no 1.03 - 7/9/2008 1:24:32 AM

Steely Glint
Matrix Hero

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1.03 still isn't up despite it being announced on 6/17 as having a target date of "next Monday."

Now I like Matrix, and I own and play a lot of Matrix games and I have for a long time, but lately I am thinking that maybe Matrix is Greek for "behind schedule."

If I ran late on delivery dates on my consulting work, let alone on my regular job, then I'd quickly be without customers.

Matrix, you need to put more effort into timeliness. Excuses don't feed the bulldog, and they don't appease the non-fanboy customers. Now I'm sure that the fanboys will rise up and make marvelous excuses for everything being late and/or cancelled and blast me for posting this, but that won't change the facts of the matter: being consistently late just doesn't cut it. I'm not posting this out of meanness or frustration or anger, this is intended purely as constructive criticism, but as a long time customer and an owner of many of your products I'm telling you that you really need to make some improvements here. It's hurting your bottom line more than you think.

_____________________________

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Post #: 1

RE: Still no 1.03 - 7/9/2008 1:52:17 AM

MrRoadrunner
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http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/index.php?module=see&lang=uk&code=ff6d676e202e709d3a16ffe7fd5976f3

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(in reply to Steely Glint)

Post #: 2

RE: Still no 1.03 - 7/9/2008 8:37:53 AM

Huib
Matrix Hero

Posts: 585
Joined: 11/21/2006
From: Nederland
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The solution is simple: Not mention release dates until the actual release.

(in reply to MrRoadrunner)

Post #: 3

RE: Still no 1.03 - 7/9/2008 3:42:10 PM

Erik Rutins
Matrix Games Staff

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Steely Glint
Matrix, you need to put more effort into timeliness. Excuses don't feed the bulldog, and they don't appease the non-fanboy customers. Now I'm sure that the fanboys will rise up and make marvelous excuses for everything being late and/or cancelled and blast me for posting this, but that won't change the facts of the matter: being consistently late just doesn't cut it. I'm not posting this out of meanness or frustration or anger, this is intended purely as constructive criticism, but as a long time customer and an owner of many of your products I'm telling you that you really need to make some improvements here. It's hurting your bottom line more than you think.

Release quality comes before release timeliness in our priority list.

We've found that it's far more detrimental to customer enjoyment and our bottom line to get something out earlier that isn't actually ready. Obviously, its nice to have both but this isn't a perfect world and we do have to make choices and trade-offs when faced with reality.

With that said, the release is already in motion. I'm waiting for the final green light based on the installer we finished on Monday. Only a last minute quality issue would delay it further.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Steely Glint)

Post #: 4

RE: Still no 1.03 - 7/9/2008 3:50:32 PM

Ron Belcher
Matrix Trooper

Posts: 250
Joined: 5/21/2005
From: Clovis, CA USA
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In the meantime, this is giving me an opportunity to get to re-establish myself
as head of household (even though it may be too hot to wear the pants! heh).
I am a patient fellow and when it gets released (I will pop the cork off of a nice
vintage Wine as well! c'est le magnifique!).

After all, c'est le guerre!

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 5

RE: Still no 1.03 - 7/9/2008 4:15:15 PM

1925frank
Matrix Elite Guard

Posts: 1039
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Red Zinfendel, I hope.

(in reply to Ron Belcher)

Post #: 6

RE: Still no 1.03 - 7/9/2008 5:18:31 PM

Steely Glint
Matrix Hero

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
Release quality comes before release timeliness in our priority list.

Erik, you do realize that people get fired and businesses go under for adhering to that philosophy? And that getting a reputation for being consistently late can be a kiss of death in the business world? I like you guys and what you do, and I wish you well, but as a customer a consistent lack of timeliness gets way old way fast.

The outcome here? I gave up on waiting for the patch and bought another game elsewhere. You might think about how many other people do the same thing and never, ever post about it...and what that may be doing to your bottom line.

To paraphrase George Patton, a good patch today is better than a perfect patch tomorrow.

_____________________________

“It was a war of snap judgments and binary results—shoot or don’t, live or die.“

Wargamer since 1967. Matrix customer since 2003.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 7

RE: Still no 1.03 - 7/9/2008 5:31:25 PM

eastwindrain
Matrix Trooper

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Come on guys, l've been wargaming with boardgames and figures for almost 40 years before switching over to PC games, these games are terrific value for money and the support is top notch.
Been PBEM WitP and HPS campaigns for the last last 4 years and get between 2 to 4 hours per turn most days, sometimes all day.
Decided to buy this UPGRADED version as the game still has amazing graphics, but more importantly with all the new enhancements were moving forward in the right direction, and with hints of more to come.

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Post #: 8

RE: Still no 1.03 - 7/9/2008 7:33:07 PM

berto
Matrix Legion of Merit

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From: metro Chicago, Illinois, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Steely Glint

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
Release quality comes before release timeliness in our priority list.

...

The outcome here? I gave up on waiting for the patch and bought another game elsewhere. You might think about how many other people do the same thing and never, ever post about it...and what that may be doing to your bottom line.

The flip side of that? Matrix releases a buggy game/patch before it's ready, Matrix is deluged with problem reports, the game looks bad in the forums, and other people decide not to buy it. It's a tradeoff, and Matrix probably knows that patiently waiting and "doing it right" outweighs releasing prematurely to an arbitrary deadline.

(Worse still, what about the games sold in stores to people who don't visit these forums? The general public buys buggy games, decides the company turns out low-quality crapware, and never again buys any Matrix product.)

In short, I suspect Matrix knows what it is doing, and knows that in the end, commitment to QA over meeting deadlines increases sales in the long run.

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(in reply to Steely Glint)

Post #: 9

RE: Still no 1.03 - 7/9/2008 11:10:04 PM

e_barkmann
Matrix Elite Guard

Posts: 1307
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From: Adelaide, Australia
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quote:

a good patch today is better than a perfect patch tomorrow.

Wrong, given that the next patch is years away. Delaying and updating during the delay was the best thing Jason/Matrix could have done. There are other more important things in life to be worrying about than a ...patch.

Anyway, see you later, I hope you enjoy your new game.

cheers

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(in reply to berto)

Post #: 10

RE: Still no 1.03 - 7/9/2008 11:55:06 PM

dgk196
Matrix Trooper

Posts: 248
Joined: 3/21/2006
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Sadly, this is true.....

"The flip side of that? Matrix releases a buggy game/patch before it's ready, Matrix is deluged with problem reports, the game looks bad in the forums, and other people decide not to buy it. It's a tradeoff, and Matrix probably knows that patiently waiting and "doing it right" outweighs releasing prematurely to an arbitrary deadline.

(Worse still, what about the games sold in stores to people who don't visit these forums? The general public buys buggy games, decides the company turns out low-quality crapware, and never again buys any Matrix product.) "

I'm not as 'picky', nothing is perfect, ever! But in more than one instance, this exact sort of 'delay' and release of 'buggy' software has happened to people in the past. I have several 'friends' that I tried to get into JTCS. They won't do it for exactly what is going on with 1.03 right now, and they 'point' it out to me! I like the game, I'm willing to 'accept' whatever 'support' comes. Many are not! And these are not people that just started playing the games.

Dennis

< Message edited by dgk196 -- 7/9/2008 11:56:05 PM >

(in reply to e_barkmann)

Post #: 11

RE: Still no 1.03 - 7/10/2008 3:26:20 AM

Erik Rutins
Matrix Games Staff

Posts: 37503
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From: Vermont, USA
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It's worth keeping in mind that while v1.03 is a fantastic update, it was not for the most part a "required" update. It's largely an update that adds on to the game an addresses many wish list items that never worked or were absent in the final versions of the originals. so it moves the game forward to a level it hasn't been at before and this is part of why it has been a challenging update to finish.

It has certainly taken some time, but we feel that the point of updating these re-releases is to give you better versions of them for the long haul. The goal is that this will be the Campaign Series compilation you can still play 10 years from now. I realize the delays are making some of you unhappy - I'm not sure why playing v1.02 isn't allright for you, but we are going as fast as we can while still maintaining quality.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to dgk196)

Post #: 12

RE: Still no 1.03 - 7/10/2008 3:54:02 AM

cpdeyoung
Matrix Legion of Merit

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Eric and Jason and all participants in this process,

I have been playing the new version, from the members area, quite a bit, and having a ball. Just enough change to see a new unit in a generated scenario, once in awhile. I have liked this game from my first taste, Talonsoft, and am delighted it is getting the support provided. This is a game I have played for years, and, yes, I think I will be playing it ten years from now.

Thanks to all, for V1.03, and for the great forums, and your patience with us.

Chuck

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 13

RE: Still no 1.03 - 7/10/2008 4:06:24 AM

osiris_slith
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Steely Glint

Im sure you will be complaining once the patch is out anyway..you remind me of one of those customers that can never be made happy...A patch fixes a glitch in a game....this is an upgrade so its like getting EF 3, WF 3 and RS 3 for free! Why dont u take a nice walk in a forest and count some trees while you wait, your negative attitude is not needed nor welcome..As far as Im concerned matrix can take another 6 weeks to release the upgrade and I would be fine.

Have a nice day

Osiris

(in reply to cpdeyoung)

Post #: 14

RE: Still no 1.03 - 7/10/2008 4:15:05 AM

Steely Glint
Matrix Hero

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Joined: 9/23/2003
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quote:

ORIGINAL: osiris

Steely Glint

Im sure you will be complaining once the patch is out anyway..you remind me of one of those customers that can never be made happy...A patch fixes a glitch in a game....this is an upgrade so its like getting EF 3, WF 3 and RS 3 for free! Why dont u take a nice walk in a forest and count some trees while you wait, your negative attitude is not needed nor welcome..As far as Im concerned matrix can take another 6 weeks to release the upgrade and I would be fine.

Have a nice day

Osiris

Typical fanboy response. You should be ashamed of yourself.

_____________________________

“It was a war of snap judgments and binary results—shoot or don’t, live or die.“

Wargamer since 1967. Matrix customer since 2003.

(in reply to osiris_slith)

Post #: 15

RE: Still no 1.03 - 7/10/2008 5:12:18 AM

osiris_slith
Matrix Trooper

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Joined: 1/5/2007
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HI

Yes I am a fan of CS..hardcore not quite..but I will plead guilty that I wanted matrix to delay the patch so that the graphics update could be completed rather than waiting for 2 years and I wasnt the only one. I agree with Erik..quality is better. Theres absolutely nothing wrong with the 1.02 version

Osiris

(in reply to Steely Glint)

Post #: 16

RE: Still no 1.03 - 7/10/2008 5:19:13 AM

e_barkmann
Matrix Elite Guard

Posts: 1307
Joined: 4/18/2000
From: Adelaide, Australia
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quote:

Typical fanboy response. You should be ashamed of yourself.

you still here? Does your new game have bugs?

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Post #: 17

RE: Still no 1.03 - 7/10/2008 5:27:54 AM

R.E.LEE
Matrix Veteran

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is it true v1.04 comes with a free pizza and beer coupon?thats what i heard anyway.

(in reply to e_barkmann)

Post #: 18

RE: Still no 1.03 - 7/10/2008 1:04:59 PM

borsook79
Matrix Veteran

Posts: 477
Joined: 6/29/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Steely Glint

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
Release quality comes before release timeliness in our priority list.

Erik, you do realize that people get fired and businesses go under for adhering to that philosophy? And that getting a reputation for being consistently late can be a kiss of death in the business world?

There are no universal laws, in the gaming industry I'd say it's more damaging for a company to release a patch that adds new bugs than to be late with a patch. I'm afraid that this criticism will enforce the rule made up by Johan from Paradox Interactive - not giving a release date at all and not allowing people to ask about a release date...

(in reply to Steely Glint)

Post #: 19

RE: Still no 1.03 - 7/10/2008 2:55:16 PM

Erik Rutins
Matrix Games Staff

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

Folks, please do not pile on Steely Glint. I've been on the other side of game updates many times and I understand the impatience.

Borsook - yes, that's probably the real lesson but between us and our developers, we can never quite keep quiet so I doubt this will realistically happen. We're just too excited to share what we're working on.

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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(in reply to borsook79)

Post #: 20

RE: Still no 1.03 - 7/10/2008 3:15:44 PM

1925frank
Matrix Elite Guard

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After the patch issues, maybe one of us can pop a friendly e-mail to Steely Glint to let him know. I don't think he was the only person who was ready to pull out his hair (or someone else's) over the delays.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 21

RE: Still no 1.03 - 7/10/2008 3:16:53 PM

paulsalayko
Matrix Recruit

Posts: 47
Joined: 3/7/2007
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GOOD MORNING ALL. While i do not agree with all the comments made by Steely Glint, I can Certinally feel his pain and frustration. He, like I, and like all on this forum has a passion for this game. I exclusivly play EF DCG german and Russian campaigns on the Barborossa side of the house. Now i understand there is a multitude of other things to play on this game, and i have tried them all since the games inseption during the Talonsoft years, however, i always make my way back to the EF DCG's. Having said that (and i do have a point here) the DCG's have been bugged since 1996, and still do not work after a certain day in 1943. Shortly after the Panther upgrade comes in 1943, the game starts to bug up bad and soon after freezes and all progress is lost. This bug has persisted from 1996 right up till the 102b patch, tecnicaly making the game for me virtually unplayable. Now, while i do see in the forums what Glint calls the FAN Boy blindly follow without critisism or harsh word, It is trying at times that for the past 12 years, i have not been able to simply sit down and play from soup to nuts the portion of the game that I want to play. I know Extensive work has been spent on the 103 to finally kill this DCG bug, and i hope to the gaming gods that it has finally been fixed. Because at this time, i must say, after all these years if the bug still remains i really need to just cut my losses and move on. Sorrry for such a long rant, but i just wanted to express what was on my mind. SEMPER FI

(in reply to borsook79)

Post #: 22

RE: Still no 1.03 - 7/10/2008 3:25:26 PM

Jason Petho
Moderator

Posts: 15009
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From: Terrace, BC, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulsalayko

GOOD MORNING ALL. While i do not agree with all the comments made by Steely Glint, I can Certinally feel his pain and frustration. He, like I, and like all on this forum has a passion for this game. I exclusivly play EF DCG german and Russian campaigns on the Barborossa side of the house. Now i understand there is a multitude of other things to play on this game, and i have tried them all since the games inseption during the Talonsoft years, however, i always make my way back to the EF DCG's. Having said that (and i do have a point here) the DCG's have been bugged since 1996, and still do not work after a certain day in 1943. Shortly after the Panther upgrade comes in 1943, the game starts to bug up bad and soon after freezes and all progress is lost. This bug has persisted from 1996 right up till the 102b patch, tecnicaly making the game for me virtually unplayable. Now, while i do see in the forums what Glint calls the FAN Boy blindly follow without critisism or harsh word, It is trying at times that for the past 12 years, i have not been able to simply sit down and play from soup to nuts the portion of the game that I want to play. I know Extensive work has been spent on the 103 to finally kill this DCG bug, and i hope to the gaming gods that it has finally been fixed. Because at this time, i must say, after all these years if the bug still remains i really need to just cut my losses and move on. Sorrry for such a long rant, but i just wanted to express what was on my mind. SEMPER FI

It is fixed, and I think you'll be happy with the new selection of core units available to play with in East Front.

Very exciting, really!

Jason Petho

PS: I should clarify. The original Talonsoft OOB's have not been fixed (they were reincluded with 1.03 due to popular demand), just the new ones (MCS) have been recreated and are fully functional.

< Message edited by Jason Petho -- 7/10/2008 3:29:28 PM >

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Post #: 23

RE: Still no 1.03 - 7/10/2008 3:39:28 PM

1925frank
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I apologize for being slow, but if I were to play an EF DCG, how would I know if I were playing with the original Talonsoft OOBs that will crash or with the MCS OOBs that won't crash. I'd want to play the one that didn't crash.

Congratulations on removing that bug. I could tell from other posts that that was one of the big ones. The EF DCGs must be really good, because, notwithstanding that bug, everyone seemed to continue to play them.

(in reply to Jason Petho)

Post #: 24

RE: Still no 1.03 - 7/10/2008 3:45:42 PM

Jason Petho
Moderator

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From: Terrace, BC, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 1925frank
I apologize for being slow, but if I were to play an EF DCG, how would I know if I were playing with the original Talonsoft OOBs that will crash or with the MCS OOBs that won't crash. I'd want to play the one that didn't crash.

Congratulations on removing that bug. I could tell from other posts that that was one of the big ones. The EF DCGs must be really good, because, notwithstanding that bug, everyone seemed to continue to play them.

I'm not a fan of them, but I realize that many people still are. Hence the hours and hours spent on trying to get the bug fixed and offering some variation to those that play them.

There are literally years worth of gaming just in the EF DCG's alone if one was to use each the various core units now available.

Jason Petho

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Post #: 25

RE: Still no 1.03 - 7/10/2008 3:55:21 PM

borsook79
Matrix Veteran

Posts: 477
Joined: 6/29/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Folks, please do not pile on Steely Glint. I've been on the other side of game updates many times and I understand the impatience.

Steely Glint does have a point, generally speaking gamers are way too tolerant towards the game producers, who often put out buggy software and make people wait a year to issue a patch that fixes only 50% of reported bugs (if anyway cares - have a look at CA). But it so happens that Matrix is rather an exception, while not being perfect, it does provide a level of support that is way above the average. SG may say that I'm being cynical, and this may be true, but I believe that until the "matrix level" becomes the standard support one should praise them instead of attacking. :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Borsook - yes, that's probably the real lesson but between us and our developers, we can never quite keep quiet so I doubt this will realistically happen. We're just too excited to share what we're working on.

That's great, maybe I just like gossiping, but it's always nice to know what's going on :)

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 26

RE: Still no 1.03 - 7/10/2008 4:58:09 PM

paulsalayko
Matrix Recruit

Posts: 47
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline

That is GREAT news... I am really looking forward to sittting back and powering up my favorite game in the world, knowing that after all this time it is going to let me go all the way to april/may 1945. Thank you to Jason and the Beta guys... I may even have to go out and pick up a few cold adult beverages

I am from what i can understand picking one of the new organizations in the Barborossa campaign, and leave the ones that have been there since the onset because they still are bugged correct?

P.S. has anyone had a chance to play the EF DCG's since the 103 came out. And if so, Has everything been running groovy?

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Jason Petho)

Post #: 27

RE: Still no 1.03 - 7/10/2008 5:03:43 PM

Jason Petho
Moderator

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From: Terrace, BC, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulsalayko

I am from what i can understand picking one of the new organizations in the Barborossa campaign, and leave the ones that have been there since the onset because they still are bugged correct?

That is precisely correct, yes!

Jason Petho

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Post #: 28

RE: Still no 1.03 - 7/10/2008 5:11:41 PM

borsook79
Matrix Veteran

Posts: 477
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Petho

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulsalayko

I am from what i can understand picking one of the new organizations in the Barborossa campaign, and leave the ones that have been there since the onset because they still are bugged correct?

That is precisely correct, yes!

Jason Petho