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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [American Civil War] >> Gary Grigsby's War Between the States >> How does this game compare to others? Page: [1]
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How does this game compare to others? - 7/10/2008 4:42:11 AM   
Texican

 

Posts: 248
Joined: 10/30/2006
Status: offline 		How does "War Between the States" compare to "Blue and Gray" or "Forge of Freedom"? Any pros/cons?

Thanks.
Post #: 1
RE: How does this game compare to others? - 7/10/2008 6:27:54 AM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		Not really sure about the other games, But if you want a game that is fast and free flowing, get this one. These guys did a great Job. I've said this before, I'm not a big Civil War buff, but for 18 months, I've been sucked in...


Jon


(in reply to Texican)
Post #: 2
RE: How does this game compare to others? - 7/10/2008 6:51:17 AM   
Curious

 

Posts: 172
Joined: 8/22/2003
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		Do a little looking around -- this has definitely been covered in this forum.

CB

(in reply to Texican)
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RE: How does this game compare to others? - 7/10/2008 11:41:31 PM   
tran505

 

Posts: 133
Joined: 11/11/2007
Status: offline

And the award for "best music" in a strategic ACW game goes to....
"Forge of Freedom"

And the award for "best map" by a stragetic ACW game goes to....
"Blue and Gray"

And the award for "best combat resolution" in a strategic ACW game goes to....
"War Between the States"

And the award for "most playable hotseat" in a strategic ACW game goes to...
"War Between the States"

And the award for "coolest introductory sequence" in a strategic ACW game goes to....
"Forge of Freedom"

And the award for "best operatinal feel" in a strategic ACW game goes to...
"Blue and Gray"

And the award for "truest to subject matter" in a strategic ACW game goes to...
A tie, "War Between the Sates" and "Blue and Gray"

And the award for "most fun per hour" in a strategic ACW game goes to....
You pick. Who can argue with what you think is most fun. I would have a hard time picking between WBTS and B&G, but that is just me.


- P

(in reply to Curious)
Post #: 4
RE: How does this game compare to others? - 7/11/2008 12:35:26 AM   
Texican

 

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Joined: 10/30/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tran505



And the award for "best music" in a strategic ACW game goes to....
"Forge of Freedom"

And the award for "best map" by a stragetic ACW game goes to....
"Blue and Gray"

And the award for "best combat resolution" in a strategic ACW game goes to....
"War Between the States"

And the award for "most playable hotseat" in a strategic ACW game goes to...
"War Between the States"

And the award for "coolest introductory sequence" in a strategic ACW game goes to....
"Forge of Freedom"

And the award for "best operatinal feel" in a strategic ACW game goes to...
"Blue and Gray"

And the award for "truest to subject matter" in a strategic ACW game goes to...
A tie, "War Between the Sates" and "Blue and Gray"

And the award for "most fun per hour" in a strategic ACW game goes to....
You pick. Who can argue with what you think is most fun. I would have a hard time picking between WBTS and B&G, but that is just me.


- P


Thanks. Very helpful reply.

(in reply to tran505)
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RE: How does this game compare to others? - 7/11/2008 1:23:29 AM   
tc237

 

Posts: 93
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< Message edited by tc237 -- 11/19/2013 7:00:23 AM >

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RE: How does this game compare to others? - 7/11/2008 3:16:06 AM   
paplan

 

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Joined: 7/23/2004
Status: offline 		Follow up.
Which has the least micro-management?

(in reply to tc237)
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RE: How does this game compare to others? - 7/11/2008 3:46:01 AM   
Pford

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tran505
And the award for "best map" by a stragetic ACW game goes to....
"Blue and Gray"


C'mon that award has to go to AEGOD's game, with that Currier & Ives theme. Of course, it's a question of taste.

Personally, for gameplay, I find WBTS the most engrossing and deeply thought out. There's a lot of Mind here. I'd love to do a PBEM but I'm struggling on Normal settings with the AI.

(in reply to tran505)
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RE: How does this game compare to others? - 7/11/2008 3:57:10 AM   
Bo Rearguard


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From: Basement of the Alamo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pford


quote:

ORIGINAL: tran505
And the award for "best map" by a stragetic ACW game goes to....
"Blue and Gray"


C'mon that award has to go to AEGOD's game, with that Currier & Ives theme. Of course, it's a question of taste.

Personally, for gameplay, I find WBTS the most engrossing and deeply thought out. There's a lot of Mind here. I'd love to do a PBEM but I'm struggling on Normal settings with the AI.



I believe the full grandiose title for AGEOD's game is American Civil War 1861-65; The Blue and the Gray. Most people probably shorten it to Blue and Gray or AACW. So likely they did win best map for their 'Currier & Ives' cartography motif.

What do the award statues look like? Little Oscar-like Robert E. Lees?


< Message edited by Bo Rearguard -- 7/11/2008 4:07:53 AM >

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RE: How does this game compare to others? - 7/11/2008 5:51:27 PM   
Nibelung

 

Posts: 56
Joined: 7/27/2006
Status: offline 		Want a tactical game into your ACW one: WC Forge of Freedom
Want tons of historical details on setups and events: AGEOD ACW
Want abstracted but well designed/nicely flowing game: GG WBS!

Difficult to say which one is the best, they all have merits.

AS for the scale, it is also a matter of taste. Do you want a quick game (done in less than one week) or a long one (over a month for the campaign?). FOF has 250 regions, WBS 400 and AACW 2800... The rest follows on the same trend.

Anyway, they are all sold by Father Matrix

(in reply to Bo Rearguard)
Post #: 10
RE: How does this game compare to others? - 7/11/2008 6:23:50 PM   
Treefrog


Posts: 702
Joined: 4/7/2004
Status: offline 		Texican,

Your points are fine, but . . . (imagine the campfire scene in Gettysburg where General Pickett and his three brigade commanders are discussing the right to secede with the British Colonel)

. . . but sir, I put it to you this way. Imagine if all these games you mention were pretty women, sir. Now, conjure the image that one had marvelous hair, the next had striking eyes, and the last a beguiling smile. Sir, having kissed the first two, would you forego the chance to kiss the third? Well sir, these game are like those girls. Having experienced the first two, why would you forego the opportunity to savor the third."

Treefrog, happily married to the fourth girl.

_____________________________

"L'audace, l'audace, toujours l'audace."

(in reply to Texican)
Post #: 11
RE: How does this game compare to others? - 7/11/2008 8:31:39 PM   
tran505

 

Posts: 133
Joined: 11/11/2007
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I think treefrog has provided the definitive comparative analysis! We all tremble before your "searing intellect".

P

(in reply to Treefrog)
Post #: 12
RE: How does this game compare to others? - 7/11/2008 9:13:26 PM   
Texican

 

Posts: 248
Joined: 10/30/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Treefrog

Texican,

Your points are fine, but . . . (imagine the campfire scene in Gettysburg where General Pickett and his three brigade commanders are discussing the right to secede with the British Colonel)

. . . but sir, I put it to you this way. Imagine if all these games you mention were pretty women, sir. Now, conjure the image that one had marvelous hair, the next had striking eyes, and the last a beguiling smile. Sir, having kissed the first two, would you forego the chance to kiss the third? Well sir, these game are like those girls. Having experienced the first two, why would you forego the opportunity to savor the third."

Treefrog, happily married to the fourth girl.


Or General Longstreet to Lee: "Sir, I don't believe any 15,000 men every assembled for battle can figure out those game mechanics."

(kidding)

(in reply to Treefrog)
Post #: 13
RE: How does this game compare to others? - 7/11/2008 9:23:13 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Treefrog
Your points are fine, but . . . (imagine the campfire scene in Gettysburg where General Pickett and his three brigade commanders are discussing the right to secede with the British Colonel)

. . . but sir, I put it to you this way. Imagine if all these games you mention were pretty women, sir. Now, conjure the image that one had marvelous hair, the next had striking eyes, and the last a beguiling smile. Sir, having kissed the first two, would you forego the chance to kiss the third? Well sir, these game are like those girls. Having experienced the first two, why would you forego the opportunity to savor the third."


Brilliant, I agree this is the perfect answer.

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(in reply to Treefrog)
Post #: 14
RE: How does this game compare to others? - 7/11/2008 10:31:10 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		Well, lets not share that with our wives. We won't make it to see the sunshine tomarrow. Guess we just have to stick to wargames...lol...


(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 15
RE: How does this game compare to others? - 7/11/2008 11:27:14 PM   
joey


Posts: 1408
Joined: 5/8/2004
From: Johnstown, PA
Status: offline 		I am a great fan of WITP and GG's BOB and BTR. Would I be a fan of this game? I like both a tactical and strategic operatons as well as a lot of micromanaging. If it is controllable, I would like to control it.... So is this a game for me?

(in reply to PyleDriver)
Post #: 16
RE: How does this game compare to others? - 7/12/2008 1:00:47 AM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		What makes this game stand out, is leader apointments. So it does take alot of thought of when and where they go. You don't get to control Tac battles, but who you appoint has everything to do with results. You will never regret getting this game...


Jon

(in reply to joey)
Post #: 17
RE: How does this game compare to others? - 7/12/2008 1:54:48 AM   
heroldje

 

Posts: 95
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline 		i would say people looking for a very in depth experience would be disappointed with this game.  the campaigns can be finished in a few days, and are abstracted to a pretty high level.  theres absolutely nothing wrong with that, but for those who like to have their hands on all the controls, this might not appeal to you.

(in reply to PyleDriver)
Post #: 18
RE: How does this game compare to others? - 7/12/2008 2:02:51 AM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		Herold, do you own this game? I don't have the others so I can't talk about them. This is Gary at his best agian, of course Joel and Keith did there part also.


Jon

(in reply to heroldje)
Post #: 19
RE: How does this game compare to others? - 7/12/2008 3:54:55 AM   
heroldje

 

Posts: 95
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline 		yes i own it, and i enjoy it quite a bit.  in fact, i just beat the union campaign for the first time tonight.  it helped that i captured R.E. Lee in 1862 :)

my point was that this game approaches the civil war from a high level, and does not bog down in details.  people looking for a game like that would be better served wtih AGEOD imo.

(in reply to PyleDriver)
Post #: 20
RE: How does this game compare to others? - 7/12/2008 11:09:51 AM   
Widell


Posts: 913
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: Trollhättan, Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: paplan
Which has the least micro-management?


Without having tried (only read the AAR's) War Between the States, but only FoF and AGEOD:ACW, I'd say FOF if you choose to not play detailed battles, and with the most simplistic settings.

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Post #: 21
RE: How does this game compare to others? - 7/12/2008 2:38:21 PM   
Titanwarrior89


Posts: 3283
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline 		Their all very good in their on right.  But for me I can't seem to get enough of WbtS.  It seems to have the right mix.  

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"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

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RE: How does this game compare to others? - 7/14/2008 6:34:12 AM   
Berkut

 

Posts: 757
Joined: 5/16/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pford


quote:

ORIGINAL: tran505
And the award for "best map" by a stragetic ACW game goes to....
"Blue and Gray"


C'mon that award has to go to AEGOD's game, with that Currier & Ives theme. Of course, it's a question of taste.

Personally, for gameplay, I find WBTS the most engrossing and deeply thought out. There's a lot of Mind here. I'd love to do a PBEM but I'm struggling on Normal settings with the AI.



Play the South, and you will do fine :P

(in reply to Pford)
Post #: 23
RE: How does this game compare to others? - 7/31/2008 4:01:54 AM   
madgamer2

 

Posts: 1235
Joined: 11/24/2004
Status: offline 		Why is it you equate depth of play=game length? AACW has the much longer and max micromanaging required and if that is what you want then so be it, but just because WbtS is a shorter game does not make it a less deep game experience.
I am not against long games as the many hours I spent (and will spend with AE) playing WitP attest to. I have yet to really get a grasp on that game but I love it and one day I may try to play against a person. As others have said each of the three games has it good points but each is designed from a different point of view.
I have some real problems with AACW in trying to deal with a map that has 2800 regions. Now some of you just adore the "period" style map but my eyes and brain do not 3 hours and I get a headache. I find the map hard to figure out because the region and state borders make it hard to see the regions. I also have a problem with all the click,click,click that is required for each turn. I find the constant changes in the game play with all the patch's makes it hard for me to get through the learning curve. I am unable to deal with the supply rules as they are in 1.10c (not tried 1.1od) because I run out of war supplies or money to the point of not having many replacements. I feel that the poor way all the game information is presented makes it hard for players to use let alone understand. I will still play it but wish that they would stop tinkering with the system and improve the User interface and clean up the map a bit.
Of the three games Gary's WbtS is by far the best designed game. If Micro management and a long game in PBEM format are for you then play AACW but don't put WbtS down because it is a shorter game.
I won't even comment on FoF due to limited space and my own reasons for not favoring it.

Madgamer

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RE: How does this game compare to others? - 7/31/2008 11:46:49 AM   
Widell


Posts: 913
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From: Trollhättan, Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: madgamer
Why is it you equate depth of play=game length? AACW has the much longer and max micromanaging required and if that is what you want then so be it, but just because WbtS is a shorter game does not make it a less deep game experience.


I didn't interpret any of the comments as either equating depth with length or with the quality of the game experience, and just as you say, there is no reason to do so either. On the contrary, it's a huge benefit for Matrix to have three such different implementations of the ACW. Hopefully, everyone will find any or more of them being of their taste. I will most likely end up with all three of them...

quote:

ORIGINAL: madgamer
...each of the three games has it good points but each is designed from a different point of view.


Yes! And that's why I believe it's best to simply provide statements outlining the differences in the design and game philosophies, rather than talking about why "I" like/don't like or prefer/don't prefer the one game over the other. All three are obviously good quality games with a solid customer/player base. Patches and mods are available to improve the gaming experience for all three.

quote:

ORIGINAL: madgamer
I have some real problems with AACW...


I sure hope you tried to get through to the AACW community at AGEOD with your feedback. Unfortunately, with my limited knowledge of the code behind AACW, much of your issues seems to be related to the engine itself and the design philosophy of AGEDO. Most of their games have a similar look and feel to them. But, let's not hijack this thread which is about WbtS rather than the GUI and usability of AACW

quote:

ORIGINAL: madgamer
Of the three games Gary's WbtS is by far the best designed game.


It would be interesting to know more about this firm statement? Since I am only days away from buying WbtS, and already enjoy the other two titles mentioned, I am very interested in what leads to this conclusion, specially since at least AACW and FOF are completely different in their approach, while WbtS seems closer to AACW? Can you perhaps clarify?

quote:

ORIGINAL: madgamer
If Micro management and a long game in PBEM format are for you then play AACW but don't put WbtS down because it is a shorter game.


Again, I didn't see anyone putting any game down in the previous comments, and I don't think that was the intention of the thread either.

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