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RE: Round 4 results - 7/13/2008 4:54:24 PM

Mykal

Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/3/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ohcanada

Gentleman,

Here are my suggestions to get this league started.

1) Use season one as a testing ground to determine how functional the game really is
2) Fill in remaining roster spots randomly and ignore salary cap for season one
3) Implement an easy method of setting up lineups (excel works)
4) Get the season started

We will use the first season to work out any bugs and properly prepare for season number two. At that time....

1) Organize the league rules completely
2) Prepare proper draft lists (free agent and college) for upcoming season and a set number of rounds
3) Implement a salary cap and import ratio
4) Structure league where all participating teams are managed

These are my suggestions.

Rick

Sounds good Rick
if you can pull that off, I'd be happy to return for season 2, with all the rules in place and in force
I like to know exactly were I am and I look to rules to help me make my decissions
if the rules are "in the grey area", things just dont work and I quickly lose interest

Feel free to contact me again when all thats in place and I'd be happy to take part.

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Post #: 241

RE: Round 4 results - 7/13/2008 5:30:33 PM

Mykal

Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/3/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mbsports

To me the problem is this game requires so much commish work because it doesn't do things like

1. Easily Facilitate Trades
2.�Easily Facilitate Lineups (Come on, at this point we should be able to have Offensive Tackles/Guards/Centers/Defensive Ends)
3. Facilitate Website Creation

P***ing in the wind asking for those things though.

Yep, I'm with you 100% on all counts
But you can do the wind thing on your own, sounds messy.............

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Post #: 242

VCFL Reorganization - 7/13/2008 6:53:40 PM

VCFL Commish

Posts: 518
Joined: 2/28/2006
Status: offline

Rick Mykal do whatever you think to reorganize the league. I have work away again this week look forward to what you guys comeup with in the VCFL new era.

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Post #: 243

RE: VCFL Reorganization - 7/13/2008 7:59:45 PM

Mykal

Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/3/2008
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Well that'll have to be down to Rick,
I aint onboard at the moment, Rick's idea's sound promising to me
if he gets them into shape, I'd be very intersted, cos that whole CFL feel is what I'm looking for out of this game.

At the moment I'm kinda in the twilight zone,
I've left the VCFL and have applied to join another league but have to wait 4 months for an opening
plus have recieved a request to run someone elses league,
at least for a season to get things rolling but I need a whole load more info before I can even consider it

so I guess it looks like this for me :

who ever gets the job done first, is where the SaberCats will go
I want to take part in a league somewhere
and where ever I go will also get the benefit of my help in any area's that suit my talents.

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Post #: 244

RE: VCFL Reorganization - 7/13/2008 9:23:47 PM

ohcanada

Posts: 68
Joined: 5/27/2008
Status: offline

Gentlemen,

Trevor - I think at this time it would be best to put everything on hold. You've got enough things going on in your life that need attention. The lack of participation from some managers is a concern for me.

I want to spend some time playing around and learning more about this game. As well, we've got an update coming, and I think we should wait for it's release as well.

I picked up Microsoft Access today and will start to play around with that as well.

I want to make sure that we're organized and have everything in place before we start again.

THIS WILL TAKE SOME TIME!!

Mykal - That said, it appears that we will lose you as a member, which is really a huge loss. I wish you luck in your other league(s) and your graphic talents will be missed. I hope if I need a logo or two you'll be so kind to help me out. Any help is always appreciated.

I'm out of this league as well, for now, but will start to assemble all the required information and data to bring the VCFL back in the future.

Rick

(in reply to Mykal)

Post #: 245

RE: VCFL Reorganization - 7/13/2008 9:25:31 PM

ohcanada

Posts: 68
Joined: 5/27/2008
Status: offline

Trevor - Could you send me the most current database you have for the VCFL??

Thanks
Rick

quote:

ORIGINAL: VCFL Commish

Rick Mykal do whatever you think to reorganize the league.� I have work away again this week look forward to what you guys comeup with in the VCFL new era.

(in reply to VCFL Commish)

Post #: 246

RE: VCFL Reorganization - 7/14/2008 1:11:49 AM

Mykal

Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/3/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ohcanada

Mykal - That said, it appears that we will lose you as a member, which is really a huge loss. I wish you luck in your other league(s) and your graphic talents will be missed. I hope if I need a logo or two you'll be so kind to help me out. Any help is always appreciated.

I'm out of this league as well, for now, but will start to assemble all the required information and data to bring the VCFL back in the future.

Rick

no reason for me to refuse you any graphics request Rick............ of course I'd be happy to help you out whenever I can
in any case, once I've finished the CIS uniforms (which is taking longer than I expected)
I'll be adding a request section to my website,
obviously requests from people I have come to know here,
will get done before those who ask for stuff but never really bother to post in the this forum (cos I've had one or two of those already)
for my money, if your prepared to share your thoughts at least and actively take part in moving this game to a higher place, then I'll gladly give up some of my free time to help you out.

Kinda like this, garysorrell, DONMVP, Local8h, VCFL Commish etc etc.............requests filled soon as is possible
Joe bloggs (who only posted once since joining a year ago).................yer I'll still fill the request, when everyone elses is done.

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Post #: 247

RE: VCFL Reorganization - 7/14/2008 1:34:36 AM

mbsports

Posts: 275
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

hey Mykal... I wonder if we could set up a CIS league using Bowl Bound...

LOL

I kid because I care, and because I have little self control for doing the crazy and should be impossible.

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Post #: 248

RE: VCFL Reorganization - 7/14/2008 2:01:25 AM

Mykal

Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/3/2008
Status: offline

Bowl Bound ???????????

you'll have to fill the blanks for me bro, maybe Im missing the joke being from the UK
having said that I like a joke too.............ya gotta laugh man or you just cry

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Post #: 249

League Database - 7/14/2008 2:29:48 AM

VCFL Commish

Posts: 518
Joined: 2/28/2006
Status: offline

http://ca.geocities.com/football_canadian/VCFLStats/A_GO.html

Red button says League File is where the latest league file is Rick.Anyway off to Sydney this week and probably next week .Have to leave around 7:00am and won`t be back till Friday again.I will try to digest everything and see what next weekend brings.

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Post #: 250

RE: VCFL Reorganization - 7/14/2008 5:08:27 PM

mbsports

Posts: 275
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

Bowl Bound is a College Football Sim made by Grey Dog Software.

It's pretty good, does some nice things. It doesn't know how to play with only 27 teams though, it would want a lot more to be included. That being said I could see a College League with Max FB functioning pretty well if it were built with some of the SQL/PHP stuff in mind.

Basically you'd set it so that players would have their years of eligiblity and would move to retirement after that.

The difficult part would be setting up a good recruiting methodology. What makes a player choose York instead of UBC and things like that would have to be put together and be transparent. But once all that stuff is in and you have a system, it'd be a very nice league.

I shall think on this, but with NCAA, NFL, CFL, and now NBA on my plate I think CIS is something that I would only do via Max FB and I don't know if I could find 26 GMs to do it.

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Post #: 251

RE: VCFL Reorganization - 7/14/2008 5:23:58 PM

ohcanada

Posts: 68
Joined: 5/27/2008
Status: offline

League Files:

I've been playing around with the data base and files that Trevor sent me for the VCFL. Really, I don't know how anyone can keep things straight in their heads.

Matrix is a good football game, but has a way to go before becoming a GREAT game, and I'll be waiting for it!!!

My thoughts now are to blow up the current VCFL and set up something different. Nine or ten teams with original player rosters or perhaps a greatest teams set for each franchise.

I'm not sure if I'm prepared to tackle a online league in the games current format. But, I'll keep trying to see if I can come up with an easy method of doing it.

I don't have hours and hours to spend organizing these days.......

Not giving up yet though!!!

Rick

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Post #: 252

RE: VCFL Reorganization - 7/14/2008 5:52:05 PM

Mykal

Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/3/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mbsports

Bowl Bound is a College Football Sim made by Grey Dog Software.

It's pretty good, does some nice things. It doesn't know how to play with only 27 teams though, it would want a lot more to be included. That being said I could see a College League with Max FB functioning pretty well if it were built with some of the SQL/PHP stuff in mind.

Basically you'd set it so that players would have their years of eligiblity and would move to retirement after that.

The difficult part would be setting up a good recruiting methodology. What makes a player choose York instead of UBC and things like that would have to be put together and be transparent. But once all that stuff is in and you have a system, it'd be a very nice league.

I shall think on this, but with NCAA, NFL, CFL, and now NBA on my plate I think CIS is something that I would only do via Max FB and I don't know if I could find 26 GMs to do it.

Right, never heard of bowl bound before, we dont get alot of football titles over here in the UK
so most have to be found online and then you've gotta know what your looking for in advance obviously.

Sounds a very interesting Idea and yes I think it would be a struggle to find 27 GM's
although I'd certainly be interested

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Post #: 253

RE: VCFL Reorganization - 7/14/2008 6:05:09 PM

Mykal

Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/3/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ohcanada

League Files:

I've been playing around with the data base and files that Trevor sent me for the VCFL. Really, I don't know how anyone can keep things straight in their heads.

Matrix is a good football game, but has a way to go before becoming a GREAT game, and I'll be waiting for it!!!

My thoughts now are to blow up the current VCFL and set up something different. Nine or ten teams with original player rosters or perhaps a greatest teams set for each franchise.

I'm not sure if I'm prepared to tackle a online league in the games current format. But, I'll keep trying to see if I can come up with an easy method of doing it.

I don't have hours and hours to spend organizing these days.......

Not giving up yet though!!!

Rick

Hahahahahahaha, So you found out............

its a mess in there thats for sure and they way the game spits out the spread sheets and info is total hash (in my opinion)
not quite but almost unuseable data
and it will take hours and hours of work bro trust me,
Whilst I was assisting Trevor I often was sat up working on things till around 5 AM
of course being across the other side of the world doesnt help, not when your trying to talk on messenger anyway.

Personally I'd try keep the VCFL in its basics, totally changing it to something else would be a real shame and would be far more work
I'd just simplify things a little and try to implement so much,
Trevor has some good idea's but I found he jumps from one idea to the next before having completed the first task
which really confuses things and all you end up with is a load of half finished projects.

Not having a go at Trevor, just my observation of how he rolls, the guys kewl and his idea's are sometimes fantastic

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Post #: 254

RE: VCFL Reorganization - 7/14/2008 11:52:33 PM

garysorrell

Posts: 2176
Joined: 1/29/2005
Status: offline

Just curious what you guys are thinking of specifically, as far as the games output. Are you talking about output of stats and rosters? The kind of stuff that the Sundby utilities did so well for FBpro?
I agree this isnt a strong point of the game. In its early release version, hitting Export actually spit out a csv file....but David changed it to HTML because of many user requests. I dont remember what all was contained in it, but now that I have some familiarity with access, I would almost prefer that. Although I was probably one of those that asked for the HTML.

I know JD had talked about his editor doing this sort of thing at some point. That would make a commissioners life simple.

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Post #: 255

RE: VCFL Reorganization - 7/15/2008 12:47:04 AM

mbsports

Posts: 275
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

Gary,

Basically what I've done is go thru all of the messy statistics that Max FB outputs and I've imported them into a SQL DB on my website. I'm using Madcat so not everything comes in nice and neat yet because my SQL/PHP skills are just getitng started, but they're still hella better then the nonsense that outputs from MaxFb

I call it nonsense because it is - this is my #1 pet peeve because it's not a difficult solution, but it does require some initial effort on the developer's part to make it happen.

I've typically pulled out of the Html brought it into access and then outputted it back out again to format it.

One thing that would help is if stat values weren't saved in this format 1:0/2:0/3:0/4:0/5:0/6:0/7:0/8:0/9:0/10:0/11:0/12:0/13:0/14:0/15:0/16:0/17:0/18:0/19:0/20:0/21:0/22:0/23:0/24:0/25:0/26:0/27:0/28:0/29:0/30:0/

I've gotten pretty good and turning that into usable data but honestly it's a bear to keep writing more and more elaborate access dbs. Something useful from MaxFb would be a godsend.

Also knowing JD's skills yikes, any sort of stats output would be very very much welcome!

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Post #: 256

RE: VCFL Reorganization - 7/15/2008 1:56:17 AM

Mykal

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Joined: 4/3/2008
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well you can already output from JD's editor, only the roster files though I think
and its in csv

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Post #: 257

RE: VCFL Reorganization - 7/15/2008 2:08:38 AM

mbsports

Posts: 275
Joined: 1/7/2007
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Yup, you can actually get the roster thru access with the ratings in a somewhat orderly manner. It's just the stats that are in a format that is fairly difficult to work with.

as an example every player has that stat layout several times for each of the stats. A much more commond sense approach would be to give each value it's own column I would think... I'm working on ways of delineation that work automagically, but I'll tell ya' what this is one of the most curious ways I've seen of making data difficult to pull out of a database.

Again I come back to this - running a league with MaxFB is extremely challenging due to the output limitations.

You can work around trades, you can work around the lack of positions, you can pretty much get around everything. But you can't escape the fact in the end that the output is just plain bad.

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Post #: 258

RE: VCFL Reorganization - 7/15/2008 4:48:00 AM

garysorrell

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Joined: 1/29/2005
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Ok, thats what I was thinking. Yes, the stats are stored weird. I was just getting comfy with access when I tried to pull stats out of the DB. Talk about getting B@#$% Slapped and sent home whimpering

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Post #: 259

RE: VCFL Reorganization - 7/15/2008 1:29:42 PM

Mykal

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Well I have to agree with MB

most of what get from the output, is NOT QUITE but ALMOST unusable
some attention has to be given to this area at some point

There's no wonder online leagues struggle,
a commish's job is a thousand times harder than it needs to be with all this crappy output.

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Post #: 260

RE: VCFL Reorganization - 7/15/2008 3:43:44 PM

ohcanada

Posts: 68
Joined: 5/27/2008
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The only way I've been able to extract stats is by using excel.

I copy and paste the HTML output and then I can manipulate it in excel.

It takes a bit of time to set up, but once its done, it is very easy to use.

If I could figure out how to post an attachment I could show you an example.

Rick

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Post #: 261

RE: VCFL Reorganization - 7/15/2008 4:07:20 PM

Mykal

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Joined: 4/3/2008
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like this Rick

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 262

RE: VCFL Reorganization - 7/15/2008 4:52:06 PM

mbsports

Posts: 275
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

Yeah I do the same thing, you grab the html file, copy it into excel and then it's somewhat usable.

What I do then is that I bring it back into access to create some additional things. The SQL/PHP I'm using also does some of that - here's an example of a player page. http://www.mbsportsnet.com/cfl_player.php?id=4794&skin=default

I bring it into Access then kick it back out into an excel sheet with the sql query built in so that I can use MySQL to import the data. This worked pretty good in the off-season I was able to do it in a day, but when I try to do it every week I would love to have a single source instead of having to go thru a 20 step process.

I also need to figure out how to bump the ratings over so that they lineup properly, I've been playing with that for a few days.

The other thing is just the lack of stats that are pumped out such as yards after catch, drops, blocked kicks, kickoff yardage, touchbacks, and any sort of blocking whatsoever.

The stats output is a total mess right now - what we need is a way to convert this
1:0/2:0/3:0/4:0/5:0/6:0/7:0/8:0/9:0/10:0/11:0/12:0/
into columns where you'd have 1 in the first column 0 in the second 2 and 0 and 3 and 0 etc. etc.

Thinking about it in a CSV world you'd want the : and / to both become deliminators and then put it all in it's own columns. Once that would be completed it would be a ton easier to make custom consistent reports and output.

I have to admit my Macro writing in Access is awful right now, but I don't see anything coming from MaxFB any time soon to address this so I guess I'll have to start on it. I'm going to move this part of the conversation over to the 3rd Party Developers Section and will see if we can get some takers on working on this issue.

(in reply to Mykal)

Post #: 263

RE: VCFL Reorganization - 7/16/2008 2:53:36 PM

VCFL Commish

Posts: 518
Joined: 2/28/2006
Status: offline

quote:

Trevor - I think at this time it would be best to put everything on hold. You've got enough things going on in your life that need attention. The lack of participation from some managers is a concern for me.

Rick the league has been around since 2001.We have had 1 18 team tournament.We then went down to a 8 team league.If anything in all this time I have learned about this game is that there will be change.You could wait another 2 years and there would still be some new update thats going to make it better.So no I don`t want to hold off on another season part of the problem has been these stops while new updates.

quote:

1) Use season one as a testing ground to determine how functional the game really is

This is the third competition every competition is a test.

quote:

2) Fill in remaining roster spots randomly and ignore salary cap for season one

There is one more round in the entry draft with rosters to be filled in.Salary cap will be in effect.
http://ca.geocities.com/football_canadian/VCFL2007/VCFL_ATL.html
This is a sample of the roster html a little easier to view.

quote:

3) Implement an easy method of setting up lineups (excel works)

For this season the games system will have to do.

quote:

4) Get the season started

Season will start on the 21st of July 2008.Your draft choice has to be in Friday.With roster cut down on the 20th.

quote:

1) Organize the league rules completely

http://ca.geocities.com/football_canadian/VCFL2007/VCFLRegulations.htm
http://ca.geocities.com/football_canadian/VCFL2007/VCFLSalaryRules.htm
http://ca.geocities.com/football_canadian/VCFL2007/VCFLCharter.htm

quote:

2) Prepare proper draft lists (free agent and college) for upcoming season and a set number of rounds

As with the roster page that will be done.

quote:

3) Implement a salary cap and import ratio

Salary cap 3,800,00 / 20 imports 42 man roster.

quote:

4) Structure league where all participating teams are managed

That would be in a perfect world.Were always goung to have open teams its the nature of the online leagues turnover is always there.2007 season will be a set up to 2008.Well thats the best I can do play if you want because you are more then welcome.

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Post #: 264

RE: VCFL Reorganization - 7/16/2008 4:03:50 PM

Mykal

Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/3/2008
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Well Thank Jah for that

Like I said previously, I would hate to see the VCFL disappear
at last some order established.

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Post #: 265

RE: VCFL Reorganization - 7/16/2008 4:15:31 PM

Mykal

Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/3/2008
Status: offline

quote:

There is one more round in the entry draft with rosters to be filled in.Salary cap will be in effect.
http://ca.geocities.com/football_canadian/VCFL2007/VCFL_ATL.html
This is a sample of the roster html a little easier to view.

Now thats alot crisper, excellent

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Post #: 266

RE: VCFL Reorganization - 7/16/2008 6:19:35 PM

Brodie

Posts: 145
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline

Looks good how did you do the roster pages?

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Post #: 267

RE: VCFL Reorganization - 7/16/2008 11:00:54 PM

ohcanada

Posts: 68
Joined: 5/27/2008
Status: offline

Hey Trevor,

This is your league and I'm only trying to help or suggest.

Right off the bat you mention about drafting one more round. Now, some rosters will not meet minimum roster requirements. I assume that you will manually fill all remaining vacant spots??

Also check your PM. Five players listed on the free agent list and draft list are already on teams.....

I'll send in my draft pick and then you let me know what needs to be done next.

If you want to do this right I would not rush the season. However, I'm ready to go as is, since this is your wish..

Rick

quote:

ORIGINAL: VCFL Commish

quote:

Trevor - I think at this time it would be best to put everything on hold. You've got enough things going on in your life that need attention. The lack of participation from some managers is a concern for me.

Rick the league has been around since 2001.We have had 1 18 team tournament.We then went down to a 8 team league.If anything in all this time I have learned about this game is that there will be change.You could wait another 2 years and there would still be some new update thats going to make it better.So no I don`t want to hold off on another season part of the problem has been these stops while new updates.

quote:

1) Use season one as a testing ground to determine how functional the game really is

This is the third competition every competition is a test.

quote:

2) Fill in remaining roster spots randomly and ignore salary cap for season one

There is one more round in the entry draft with rosters to be filled in.Salary cap will be in effect.
http://ca.geocities.com/football_canadian/VCFL2007/VCFL_ATL.html
This is a sample of the roster html a little easier to view.

quote:

3) Implement an easy method of setting up lineups (excel works)

For this season the games system will have to do.

quote:

4) Get the season started

Season will start on the 21st of July 2008.Your draft choice has to be in Friday.With roster cut down on the 20th.

quote:

1) Organize the league rules completely

http://ca.geocities.com/football_canadian/VCFL2007/VCFLRegulations.htm
http://ca.geocities.com/football_canadian/VCFL2007/VCFLSalaryRules.htm
http://ca.geocities.com/football_canadian/VCFL2007/VCFLCharter.htm

quote:

2) Prepare proper draft lists (free agent and college) for upcoming season and a set number of rounds

As with the roster page that will be done.

quote:

3) Implement a salary cap and import ratio

Salary cap 3,800,00 / 20 imports 42 man roster.

quote:

4) Structure league where all participating teams are managed

That would be in a perfect world.Were always goung to have open teams its the nature of the online leagues turnover is always there.2007 season will be a set up to 2008.Well thats the best I can do play if you want because you are more then welcome.