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Victory points for ships. - 7/24/2008 2:51:28 AM   
ltfightr


Posts: 537
Joined: 6/16/2002
From: Little Rock AR
Status: offline 		Has there been any thought about changing the victory point cost of ships vs planes guns ect? I have always thought that ships were undervalued in the game. I just dont get that an AP might be worth 15 points or less. How many artillery pieces could be made with the steel of even a small sized ship? Only 15? I think both sides would be less likley to do crazy things in an ahistoric manner if the VP's for ships were multiplied by a large factor maybe even 10. Having said that I have alway said that the Number one problem for this game is the fact that we have no cure for hindsight. But I still love WITP and think its the best try ever for a computer WWII game.

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RE: Victory points for ships. - 7/24/2008 1:15:36 PM   
wild_Willie2


Posts: 2934
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Arnhem (holland) yes a bridge to far...
Status: offline 		The VP value per ship is directly linked to it's durability. It would be simple to increase the durabiity of the ships and thus to increase it's VP....

Problem would be that it would take FOREVER to sink just such an Super AK, let alone a Yamato with 10X it's durability.....  

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Post #: 2
RE: Victory points for ships. - 7/24/2008 1:33:11 PM   
herwin

 

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2

The VP value per ship is directly linked to it's durability. It would be simple to increase the durabiity of the ships and thus to increase it's VP....

Problem would be that it would take FOREVER to sink just such an Super AK, let alone a Yamato with 10X it's durability.....  


Should be a simple data value change in a table of constants somewhere. The VP value of a ship should be at least the value of its crew. The crew of a capital ship was about the size of a regiment and more highly trained. The cost of building a ship was much greater than the cost of equipping a regiment. The Yamato, for example, had as much high quality steel as 3000 tanks. Add the two together.

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(in reply to wild_Willie2)
Post #: 3
RE: Victory points for ships. - 7/24/2008 1:44:33 PM   
John Lansford

 

Posts: 2662
Joined: 4/29/2002
Status: offline 		Ship victory points=durability x (variable)

Where the variable is a number based on the ship's class.  Major warships could get a higher variable, while common merchant ships could perhaps get a 2.  It seems kind of simple a procedure to me; by writing the definition this way, the durability remains as is for every other calculation that needs that value.

(in reply to herwin)
Post #: 4
RE: Victory points for ships. - 7/27/2008 6:07:23 PM   
esteban


Posts: 618
Joined: 7/21/2004
Status: offline 		Versus WitP, I would be very much in favor of reducing the VPs for destroyed aircraft or increasing the VPs for sunk shipping.

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Post #: 5
RE: Victory points for ships. - 7/27/2008 8:46:45 PM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8183
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

Ship victory points=durability x (variable)

Where the variable is a number based on the ship's class.  Major warships could get a higher variable, while common merchant ships could perhaps get a 2.  It seems kind of simple a procedure to me; by writing the definition this way, the durability remains as is for every other calculation that needs that value.


Yes, but.

There are other factors involved that help determine the value of a ship. Tonnage, capacity (aircraft for some, troops for others, cargo or liquid..).

If we were to determine a proper "value" for a ship, should it not be related to the loss of it's capability?




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Post #: 6
RE: Victory points for ships. - 7/28/2008 10:31:42 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: esteban

Versus WitP, I would be very much in favor of reducing the VPs for destroyed aircraft or increasing the VPs for sunk shipping.


Amen! Destroying 8 Idas on the ground shouldn't be the same as sinking a Destroyer. AE will model increased OPS Losses, which is great, except that we're likely to see the OPS LOSSES category alone equal as many points by 1944 as sinking 6 CVs.

(in reply to esteban)
Post #: 7
RE: Victory points for ships. - 11/14/2008 12:50:54 PM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		Hi guys! So, have the VP values been tweaked up for shipping and maybe multiengined aircraft?

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Post #: 8
RE: Victory points for ships. - 11/15/2008 2:55:13 AM   
Gem35


Posts: 3420
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Hi guys! So, have the VP values been tweaked up for shipping and maybe multiengined aircraft?

Who are you???

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Post #: 9
RE: Victory points for ships. - 11/15/2008 3:49:43 AM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		Sir Ronald the Sour Ache (er) of PetieOh.

Ron was a member of the original WITP Beta Team (IIRC).

Ron was a founding agitator of the CHS Team.

Ron is the founding member of the WITP Griper Fan Boi Club.

Ron is an x-bar-keep from Canada.

Ron is a current resident-visitor in the Ionian Islands!

(what have I left out?)



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Post #: 10
RE: Victory points for ships. - 11/15/2008 3:55:36 AM   
Gem35


Posts: 3420
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Sir Ronald the Sour Ache (er) of PetieOh.

Ron was a member of the original WITP Beta Team (IIRC).

Ron was a founding agitator of the CHS Team.

Ron is the founding member of the WITP Griper Fan Boi Club.

Ron is an x-bar-keep from Canada.

Ron is a current resident-visitor in the Ionian Islands!

(what have I left out?)



"gasp" how about his love for how submarines are portrayed in this fine game?

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It doesn't make any sense, Admiral. Were we better than the Japanese or just luckier?


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Post #: 11
RE: Victory points for ships. - 11/15/2008 4:45:45 AM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		Ron is King of ASW warfare gripping.

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Post #: 12
RE: Victory points for ships. - 11/15/2008 6:58:19 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		Apparently Greece has been too fun. We certainly don't see Ron here with the regularity that we did before the move... no more cold Canadian winters keeping him at the computer!

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fair winds,
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Post #: 13
RE: Victory points for ships. - 11/15/2008 6:51:09 PM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		Actually, I just got cable internet at my pad in Argassi so when I go back in a few months to open my beach bar in April I can haunt this forum and hopefully play PBEM AE...assuming it comes out fairly soon.

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Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 14
RE: Victory points for ships. - 11/15/2008 6:53:09 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker
Hi guys! So, have the VP values been tweaked up for shipping and maybe multiengined aircraft?

You already owe us all a bottle of Retsina for making the sub shils 'full hull'. So what more do you want ?

Shipping becomes toast, production grinds to a screeching halt, it takes motors to build multimotor airplanes, which the factories can't do, and you want VPs to boot ?? You are a hard man dude.

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Post #: 15
RE: Victory points for ships. - 11/15/2008 6:57:15 PM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker
Hi guys! So, have the VP values been tweaked up for shipping and maybe multiengined aircraft?

You already owe us all a bottle of Retsina for making the sub shils 'full hull'. So what more do you want ?

Shipping becomes toast, production grinds to a screeching halt, it takes motors to build multimotor airplanes, which the factories can't do, and you want VPs to boot ?? You are a hard man dude.


Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeyyyyyyyyyyy.....I've softened up alot John. I don't gripe much anymore anyway. Unfortunately, if ship crews were added the VPs would go up accordingly for ship damage and losses....hmmm...sounds like a mild gripe there.


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Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 16
RE: Victory points for ships. - 11/15/2008 7:28:37 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker
Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeyyyyyyyyyyy.....I've softened up alot John. I don't gripe much anymore anyway. Unfortunately, if ship crews were added the VPs would go up accordingly for ship damage and losses....hmmm...sounds like a mild gripe there.

All you want big boy, c'mmon git some.

I got a brother in law from the Greek Islands, Jim Moutzalias, his family is still there (close on the Turkish side). You wanna go visiting, shoot me a email. Ciao Bro.

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Post #: 17
RE: Victory points for ships. - 11/16/2008 8:01:20 AM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker
Hi guys! So, have the VP values been tweaked up for shipping and maybe multiengined aircraft?

You already owe us all a bottle of Retsina for making the sub shils 'full hull'. So what more do you want ?

Shipping becomes toast, production grinds to a screeching halt, it takes motors to build multimotor airplanes, which the factories can't do, and you want VPs to boot ?? You are a hard man dude.


Retsina is dire $hit, IMHO ...ask for ouzo !!

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(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 18
RE: Victory points for ships. - 11/16/2008 12:59:19 PM   
buzzz123

 

Posts: 78
Joined: 9/14/2006
From: ile Maurice
Status: offline 		Welcome back Ron!

I've missed your cheerful banter on the forum!!!!

(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 19
RE: Victory points for ships. - 11/16/2008 3:52:59 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Actually, I just got cable internet at my pad in Argassi so when I go back in a few months to open my beach bar in April I can haunt this forum and hopefully play PBEM AE...assuming it comes out fairly soon.


Hide the women folk!

Welcome back, Ron!

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)
Post #: 20
RE: Victory points for ships. - 11/16/2008 4:47:56 PM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8183
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: buzzz123

I've missed your cheerful banter on the forum!!!!



I thought it was beerful chatter.




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Post #: 21
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