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For the 'grog', does this game include.... - 7/25/2008 7:35:10 AM   
GJK


Posts: 554
Joined: 7/17/2004
Status: offline 		1. Multi-hex (combined/coordinated) attacks (as asked in another thread)?
2. Zones of Control or Areas of Influence that affect movement and/or supply of enemy units?
3. For that matter, traceable supply lines with supply sources that can be captured/destroyed?
4. Stacking (multiple units per hex)?
5. Step losses for the units in combat - if so, how is that handled exactly?
6. A CRT that can be seen (perhaps it's in the manual)?
7. How are new builds handled - does the player make purchases (based on...?) or are the units all set on a reinforcement schedule?
8. Terrain effects; does terrain effect movement and combat (this is probably obvious, but still....).

That's all that I can think of at the moment, others may want to add to this list.

Also, I have tinkered around with an early alpha build of this game (that offers the chance to play Case White). Can that be used as a demo for the game or were significant changes made for the final release?

I too am an avid fan of Clash of Steel, still play it (via DOSBox) and even Pbem it (as I posted in another thread here). I'd be interested in an "update" of that game - but it's going to have to support Pbem in some form or another.

Looking forward to the replies - thanks.

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RE: For the 'grog', does this game include.... - 7/25/2008 8:17:55 AM   
comrade

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GJK

1. Multi-hex (combined/coordinated) attacks (as asked in another thread)?


Yes. You can attack from many directions. There's even a 20% penalty for attacking from one direction only.

quote:


2. Zones of Control or Areas of Influence that affect movement and/or supply of enemy units?


Yes, there are ZoCs for both movement and supply. Different types of units suffer different penalties for moving in ZOCs (2 extra Action Points to move in enemy ZOC). Armoured units are less affected by enemy ZOC (1 extra AP) so they can be used for moving through the punched holes and encircle the enemy.

quote:


3. For that matter, traceable supply lines with supply sources that can be captured/destroyed?


Cities serve as a supply sources. Each country has at least one Main Supply Sources which always has max supply, all cities that have land connection with this MSS also have max supply. To supply cities overseas you have to create supply convoys. Units draw supply from nearest (in terms of AP) friendly-controlled city, they have to have a land connection with this city over friendly-controlled hexes. The further the unit is from the city the less supply it will get (and suffer more eff. penalty)

If you completely cut off enemy unit from any friendly-controlled city, this unit is also cut off from supply and will suffer severe penalties. Game draws borders between hexes controlled by different sides, they are re-drawn automatically after each movement so you can easily see the pockets. If you capture MSS - it will hit enemy supply very hard all over the map, as they will have to rely on individual cities supply values which are always lower than maximum value from MSS.

quote:


4. Stacking (multiple units per hex)?


Unfortunately, there's no stacking.

quote:


5. Step losses for the units in combat - if so, how is that handled exactly?


Yes. There's a classical CRT with odds/die roll combination. Losses are a percentage of strength, so if unit takes, say, 25% losses in 3 subsequent attacks it'll survive. There's another CRT for attacker: attacker losses are determined as a percentage of defender's losses (0.5 means the attacking unit(s) took total half of defender losses, 1 means same losses ('exchange'), 2 means twice the defender's losses etc.)

quote:


6. A CRT that can be seen (perhaps it's in the manual)?


I'm not sure if it's in manual but it's in consts.csv file - there are all game variables, CRTs etc. there, there's a description for each variable.

quote:


7. How are new builds handled - does the player make purchases (based on...?) or are the units all set on a reinforcement schedule?


Similar to SC: you purchase units for Production Points and can deploy them immediately.

quote:


8. Terrain effects; does terrain effect movement and combat (this is probably obvious, but still....).


Yes it does. There's an effect of movement and combat. Different types of units (infantry, motorized, armoured) have different movement values for given terrain type.

quote:


Also, I have tinkered around with an early alpha build of this game (that offers the chance to play Case White). Can that be used as a demo for the game or were significant changes made for the final release?


There'd been lots of significant changes. Fog Of War, HQ units, generals' experience, many balance tweaks, and bugfixes and more... :)

quote:


I too am an avid fan of Clash of Steel, still play it (via DOSBox) and even Pbem it (as I posted in another thread here). I'd be interested in an "update" of that game - but it's going to have to support Pbem in some form or another.

Looking forward to the replies - thanks.


Thanks for all questions and comments. I'm also a big fan of CoS and always wanted to play a similar but better game. There hadn't been any so I started writing my own and here it is :)

(in reply to GJK)
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RE: For the 'grog', does this game include.... - 7/25/2008 9:14:20 AM   
GJK


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Joined: 7/17/2004
Status: offline 		This sounds good (would like to have stacking but that's not a deal breaker - and at this scale, stacking may not be appropriate anyway).

Another question; is there "initiative" or does the Axis player always go first? If there is "initiative", what determines that?

Other questions:

Is there naval shore bombardments?

Aircraft carriers?

Commerce raiders?

Lend-Lease/Murmansk convoys (that can be raided)?

Strategic movement?

Strategic bombing?

German blitzkrieg (armor assault/attack bonus when combined with air strikes)?

Research and Development (weapons/tactics)?

Alliance restrictions/penalties (British forces coordinating attacks with French units for example)?

I think many of these answers are in the documentation that comes with this old alpha demo, but for others interest, I ask the questions here (and that may be out of date as well).

(in reply to GJK)
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RE: For the 'grog', does this game include.... - 7/25/2008 9:28:38 AM   
comrade

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GJK

This sounds good (would like to have stacking but that's not a deal breaker - and at this scale, stacking may not be appropriate anyway).

Another question; is there "initiative" or does the Axis player always go first? If there is "initiative", what determines that?


Axis always goes first, then allies then comintern then neutrals. Each country has the Political Strength attribute which determines the order within the alliance.

quote:


Is there naval shore bombardments?


Yes. All you need is a one or more battleship in adjacent sea zone.

quote:


Aircraft carriers?


Yes. You can build carriers, they are most powerful naval units and have special attacks that allows them damage or destroy enemy unit in the same sea zone without taking damage themselves.

quote:


Commerce raiders?


Submarine units. You can organize them in fleets and set formation mode to "Raiders Group" which means that they will avoid decisive battle and hunt for enemy convoys.

quote:


Lend-Lease/Murmansk convoys (that can be raided)?


Unfortunately not. But Lend-Lease event may be added in one of the next patches.

quote:


Strategic movement?


Yup. Different cost depending on unit type and size.

quote:


Strategic bombing?


You can hamper production in enemy cities with strategic bombers. You can also research and use nukes

quote:


German blitzkrieg (armor assault/attack bonus when combined with air strikes)?


There is no direct combination of air and land attacks, because these types of attacks are executed independently, however the classical force concentration doctrine seems to work very nicely in the game: bombard enemy from air, hit the weak spot and use your armor (less affected by enemy ZOC) to penetrate and cut them off.

quote:


Research and Development (weapons/tactics)?


There are a few key fields: artillery, tanks, aircraft, submarines etc. in which you can reach up to 5 levels, each giving certain bonuses or allowing building/upgrading to higher level units. Research is quite simple and intuitive, and does not require micro-management.

quote:


Alliance restrictions/penalties (British forces coordinating attacks with French units for example)?


It's not possible to use units owned by different countries in the same attack. Each country moves and attacks on its own.

(in reply to GJK)
Post #: 4
RE: For the 'grog', does this game include.... - 7/26/2008 6:49:20 PM   
winky51

 

Posts: 164
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Status: offline 		Just found all my answers. I LIKE IT!

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RE: For the 'grog', does this game include.... - 8/6/2008 3:05:45 AM   
jeffreysutro@jeffreysutro.com

 

Posts: 137
Joined: 2/27/2004
Status: offline 		A further question is whether the game includes a flexible move / fight sequence.  Does it allow you to move first, or fight first, or any combination you choose to use as long as you have remaining movement points (or "action points", or whatever name the designers use).  This is especially important in games that don't have stacking since it can allow (to some degree) concentration of forces, and exploitation of breakthroughs, and adds to historicity.  In my opinion, this could go a long way toward making up for the lack of stacking.   

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RE: For the 'grog', does this game include.... - 8/6/2008 4:31:46 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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From: Vermont, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffreys
A further question is whether the game includes a flexible move / fight sequence.  Does it allow you to move first, or fight first, or any combination you choose to use as long as you have remaining movement points (or "action points", or whatever name the designers use).  This is especially important in games that don't have stacking since it can allow (to some degree) concentration of forces, and exploitation of breakthroughs, and adds to historicity.  In my opinion, this could go a long way toward making up for the lack of stacking.   


Yes, it does, as long as you have action points remaining you can move and attack. The only limitation is only one coordinated (multi-directional) attack per unit per turn.

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RE: For the 'grog', does this game include.... - 8/8/2008 11:36:34 PM   
jeffreysutro@jeffreysutro.com

 

Posts: 137
Joined: 2/27/2004
Status: offline 		Another question occurs to me.  Does the game "nerf" Soviet and American production, reducing them well below historical levels, as some games do (e.g. Strategic Command and Strategic Command 2).  Presumably this is to allow Germany to "win" the game by completely conquering Russia, which may be satisfying for the person playing the Germans, but was historically quite unlikely.  In my "grognard-like" opinion just surviving until the end of 1946 should be be grounds for awarding the Axis a decisive victory. 

Also a realistic European campaign gives the player a chance to both attack and defend, which makes it an excellent test of skill, and (in my opinion) a lot more fun.  There's a lot of challenge and enjoyment to trying to judge when the tide will (or has) turned and how to prepare for it.

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RE: For the 'grog', does this game include.... - 8/9/2008 1:47:57 AM   
SeaMonkey

 

Posts: 804
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline 		 I like your "grognard-like" opinion jeffreys for victory and I'll give you the German advantage in SC1, but to include that as covering SC2, especially WaW.....well...your "green" is showing.

Then again, your "judgement" and extraction of "fun" by identifying the turning point lends credence to your veteran status.

Buy the game, I'd be interested in your perspective.
Post #: 9
RE: For the 'grog', does this game include.... - 8/12/2008 3:07:01 AM   
jeffreysutro@jeffreysutro.com

 

Posts: 137
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Status: offline 		SeaMonkey:

I think Strategic Command and Strategic Command 2: Weapons & Warfare are excellent games.  I have limited playing experience with Weapons & Warfare, so my opinion was mostly based on the AARs I read on the Battlefront forum, which usually seemed to result in German conquests of Russia.  I could easily be wrong about the play balance.  In fact my few games playing Germany against the AI have resulted in pretty historical outcomes in Russia, but I thought it was just due to my inexperience (and the fact that I wasted time and resources in unhistorical conquests of England).

I am very excited about WW2:Road to Victory.  For a while I've been hoping for a medium complexity strategic level World War 2 game with some accurate operational elements.  Something between the high level, not very detailed games like World at War, or Strategic Command, and the very detailed "monster games" like War in the Pacific or World in Flames (if it ever gets finished).  Right now I'm trying to decide whether to buy WW2: Road to Victory, or SSG's Kharkov: Disaster on the Donets, or just continue to play some of the other great games I got in the past year or so e.g. Advanced Tactics, Napoleon in Italy, or Battlefront.  Perhaps I can get my wife to buy me one of the new ones for our anniversary in September (as you can see, I'm quite the romantic). 



< Message edited by jeffreys -- 8/12/2008 9:26:51 PM >

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RE: For the 'grog', does this game include.... - 8/12/2008 9:38:32 PM   
jeffreysutro@jeffreysutro.com

 

Posts: 137
Joined: 2/27/2004
Status: offline 		In reading through the AARs I thought of another, rather nit-picking, question.  The AARs and screen shots show the units as little figures on bases, while I prefer flat unit counters with the "Nato style" symbols.  Is it possible to switch the display to that type of unit counter?  This won't affect my decision to buy the game (I'm not quite that much of a grognard), but I am curious.  Thank you for any information you can give me.

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RE: For the 'grog', does this game include.... - 8/12/2008 9:52:50 PM   
JMass


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From: Italy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffreys

The AARs and screen shots show the units as little figures on bases, while I prefer flat unit counters with the "Nato style" symbols.  Is it possible to switch the display to that type of unit counter?


Yes, it is possible and you can also opt to use a mod



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RE: For the 'grog', does this game include.... - 8/12/2008 10:17:05 PM   
jeffreysutro@jeffreysutro.com

 

Posts: 137
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Status: offline 		JMass:
 
Those are really nice!  The more I ask questions, the more I find myself liking this game.

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RE: For the 'grog', does this game include.... - 8/12/2008 11:02:18 PM   
sullafelix

 

Posts: 1520
Joined: 1/11/2005
Status: offline 		 I have never experienced the sweeping power of a tank corps in any other computer wargame. TOAW had some scenarios that were close but still not as good as this one. Imagine Third reich with a huge map. Sure it has some quirks and needs some polishing here and there but to their credit the developers have said that from the day of release. They are also working on it as we speak. These are not " bug " fixing patches ( although they may have caught some ) these are enhancement patches. I detest any company that uses it's purchasers as beta testers, there is no reason whatsoever for a game to have to be patched on day one for it to work on the people who purchased it machines.

I would like it to be more " grog " than it is at the moment, but it looks that they are working on an editor etc. to add some more features that you can use or not. 
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RE: For the 'grog', does this game include.... - 8/12/2008 11:04:25 PM   
Titanwarrior89


Posts: 3283
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From: arkansas
Status: offline 		Do I understand that Malta is not represented in the game?    I want to buy but I am not sure if its worth it.  The items in this thread are pushing me that way but Malta missing............

Also, how is the AI in north africa?

< Message edited by Titanwarrior89 -- 8/12/2008 11:25:34 PM >

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RE: For the 'grog', does this game include.... - 8/12/2008 11:16:33 PM   
Hertston


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From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline 		Another one on the fence regarding this game.  How does it handle the Battle of the Atlantic, if at all?

(in reply to Titanwarrior89)
Post #: 16
RE: For the 'grog', does this game include.... - 8/12/2008 11:26:01 PM   
JMass


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From: Italy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89

Do I understand that Malta is not represented in the game? 


Malta was added in the beta patch 1.20 and to add ports and cities editing cvs files is very easy.


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RE: For the 'grog', does this game include.... - 8/13/2008 1:34:44 AM   
Titanwarrior89


Posts: 3283
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From: arkansas
Status: offline 		One last question.  Do the units have their historcial unit ID or are  they generic?

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"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

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RE: For the 'grog', does this game include.... - 8/13/2008 7:40:41 AM   
comrade

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston

Another one on the fence regarding this game. How does it handle the Battle of the Atlantic, if at all?


Naval combat is bit simplified but still plays important part. From 1.20 there are Lend-lease convoys with resources to UK and USSR passing through Atlantic, these convoys can be intercepted by naval units. You can set your fleets in either of two modes: raider or regular fleet, the former hunts for convoys and avoids battles with enemy, the latter seeks decisive battle with other fleets and hunts for raiders.

What's missing is raiders effectivity report (only convoy owners see the losses inflicted by enemy raiders at the moment), but this will be fixed in next patch.

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RE: For the 'grog', does this game include.... - 8/13/2008 7:52:05 AM   
doomtrader


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89

One last question.  Do the units have their historcial unit ID or are  they generic?



First of all, the game does not have historical OOB as its at the corps and divisions scale, but we are preparing small suprice for next patch.
Of course you can change the unit name whenever you wish if you think it does not fit history

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