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Help!! Can't proceed due to ghost corps!!!

 
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Help!! Can't proceed due to ghost corps!!! - 7/31/2008 4:18:51 AM   
Soapy Frog

 

Posts: 282
Joined: 7/16/2005
Status: offline 		Our game has become stalled again after upgrading to 1.03.

It is Austria's land combat phase. France and Austria had an exchange of battle files for a battle on Paris which seemed to work out alright. There was a 2nd (small) battle in orleans where two weak austrian corps attacked a French corps and got annihilated... however the corps counters would not go away and now the phase cannot end becuase it keeps saying "reinforce or remove" the corps counters in question. Can't do either obviously... so we are stuck.

Marshall I have sent the savegame to you, subject of the email is the same as this thread.

Please any assistance you can give would be great! We are determined to get through this game.
Post #: 1
RE: Help!! Can't proceed due to ghost corps!!! - 7/31/2008 3:47:15 PM   
Soapy Frog

 

Posts: 282
Joined: 7/16/2005
Status: offline 		Also a couple of other bugs with this particular game:

1) A freanch corps that was supposed to be in Paris teleported to Orleans during the French combat phase
2) The Austrian stack is mysteriously able to pay supply form an invalid supply depot in Soissons.
3) During the battle on Paris, cavalry superiority did not seem to be added in for the Austrians.

http://www.soapyfrog.net/eia/battle_of_paris_june_1805.jpg this is the battle after 1 cav has been lost for breaking. You can clearly see during the battle Austria had 18 cav to France's 9, which means Charles should have been rolling with a +1

(in reply to Soapy Frog)
Post #: 2
RE: Help!! Can't proceed due to ghost corps!!! - 7/31/2008 4:52:48 PM   
NeverMan

 

Posts: 1722
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline 		Sorry to post here but I have to say it's insane how pretty and legible those corps markers are, amazing.

(in reply to Soapy Frog)
Post #: 3
RE: Help!! Can't proceed due to ghost corps!!! - 7/31/2008 7:54:25 PM   
RayKinStL

 

Posts: 130
Joined: 7/4/2008
Status: offline 		WHOA! I like those corps counters. How did you do that? When you look at garrisons, does it jsut show numbers on each city?

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Post #: 4
RE: Help!! Can't proceed due to ghost corps!!! - 7/31/2008 7:59:31 PM   
Soapy Frog

 

Posts: 282
Joined: 7/16/2005
Status: offline 		http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1835178

Check em out. No garrison counters do not show numbers unfortunately I don't know of any way to do that.

Also for some reason (not sure why) you cannot tell if a crops is Loaned or not (i.e. it does not change the national symbol to reflect who is controlling the corps).

(in reply to RayKinStL)
Post #: 5
RE: Help!! Can't proceed due to ghost corps!!! - 7/31/2008 9:10:15 PM   
Marshall Ellis


Posts: 5630
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Did you get my Russian naval back? This should be the Russian naval without the teleport.


_____________________________

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Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



(in reply to Soapy Frog)
Post #: 6
RE: Help!! Can't proceed due to ghost corps!!! - 7/31/2008 11:00:11 PM   
Soapy Frog

 

Posts: 282
Joined: 7/16/2005
Status: offline 		Eh what?

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Post #: 7
RE: Help!! Can't proceed due to ghost corps!!! - 8/1/2008 12:44:30 PM   
Marshall Ellis


Posts: 5630
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Woops! Wrong guy!
I'm working another game ... I'm in 2 different worlds here one with handles and one with email IDs ??? :-0

Most definitely the game you sent me has not loaded the results from the battle of Paris.
Do you have that?


< Message edited by Marshall Ellis -- 8/1/2008 1:17:22 PM >

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Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



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Post #: 8
RE: Help!! Can't proceed due to ghost corps!!! - 8/1/2008 1:27:47 PM   
Dancing Bear

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		Additional combat phase errors to report during same combat phase.

As the Austrian counter part in this battle, two other errors occurred in this battle that need to be reported, both serious, incorrect tactical rating modifiers were applied and the river crossing did not work correctly.

The first is that game gave Charles a tactical -1 modifier against Napoleon, when in fact he should have had a zero modifier. Charles was the attacker with 7 corps so would have been a "3" tactical leader instead of his usual "4". The game gets this part right, but a according the look up table in the rules, a "3" leader against a Napoleon’s "5" give Napoleon +1 and Charles a "0", instead the game gave Charles a "-1". In this case, Charles had cavalry superiority, so he still ended up with a "0", but really he should have been at "+1".

The second is the river crossing. A river crossing disadvantage was applied to Charles attacking army, when only part of his army crossed a river. In this case, there should have been no river crossing penalty for Charles.

These are pretty basic rules that the game should get right. Please fix them.

Also, this is the same area, where the Austrian forces that captured Paris were teleported out of the city, allowing the French to annihilate them, despite the corps being given orders to surrender.

Combined these three errors, plus those described by Soapy Frog, had some pretty nasty consequences for Austria in this game.

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)
Post #: 9
RE: Help!! Can't proceed due to ghost corps!!! - 8/1/2008 3:08:55 PM   
Soapy Frog

 

Posts: 282
Joined: 7/16/2005
Status: offline 		Also Marshall I have sent you the last battle file from the exchange, hopefully that will help.

(in reply to Dancing Bear)
Post #: 10
RE: Help!! Can't proceed due to ghost corps!!! - 8/1/2008 3:22:41 PM   
NeverMan

 

Posts: 1722
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline 		Hey Bear and Frog, are you guys using 1.03? I haven't upgraded to it but it sounds like I shouldn't, what do you think?

(in reply to Soapy Frog)
Post #: 11
RE: Help!! Can't proceed due to ghost corps!!! - 8/1/2008 3:42:52 PM   
AresMars

 

Posts: 234
Joined: 12/13/2007
Status: offline 		NeverMan, I can confirm that Bear [As] and Frog [Fr] are playing in the latest patch 1.03.

AresMars [Sp]


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Post #: 12
RE: Help!! Can't proceed due to ghost corps!!! - 8/1/2008 3:43:58 PM   
NeverMan

 

Posts: 1722
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AresMars

NeverMan, I can confirm that Bear [As] and Frog [Fr] are playing in the latest patch 1.03.

AresMars [Sp]




So it seems like 1.03 has introduced more bugs than it's worth, is that an accurate statement? Is this another 1.02i?

Or is it confirmed that these bugs were there before? It's like 2 steps forward and 3 steps back with this game.

(in reply to AresMars)
Post #: 13
RE: Help!! Can't proceed due to ghost corps!!! - 8/1/2008 3:44:36 PM   
Soapy Frog

 

Posts: 282
Joined: 7/16/2005
Status: offline 		We are using patch 1.03, though I do not think that that particularly is the source of our problems.

(in reply to AresMars)
Post #: 14
RE: Help!! Can't proceed due to ghost corps!!! - 8/1/2008 6:28:05 PM   
Marshall Ellis


Posts: 5630
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

quote:

ORIGINAL: AresMars

NeverMan, I can confirm that Bear [As] and Frog [Fr] are playing in the latest patch 1.03.

AresMars [Sp]




So it seems like 1.03 has introduced more bugs than it's worth, is that an accurate statement? Is this another 1.02i?

Or is it confirmed that these bugs were there before? It's like 2 steps forward and 3 steps back with this game.


Wow! Such negativitiy! :-)

FYI just so you know, this looks to be a PBEM problem that has been around a while. I just happen to get a great save from Soapy so that I could see what was really happening while it was happening (Thank you Soapy).

In fact I will have a new 1.03 BETA image with this fix.








_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



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Post #: 15
RE: Help!! Can't proceed due to ghost corps!!! - 8/2/2008 12:21:49 PM   
Dancing Bear

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		Hi Marshall
  while you are fixing up our game, Can you add the following Austrian factors into a French prisoner of war camp: 5inf,2 cav and 3 guard. These factors were annihilated due the garrison bug at Paris,when they should have surrendered.
  Bear.

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Post #: 16
RE: Help!! Can't proceed due to ghost corps!!! - 8/2/2008 4:02:06 PM   
Marshall Ellis


Posts: 5630
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		I'll see what I can do...


_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



(in reply to Dancing Bear)
Post #: 17
RE: Help!! Can't proceed due to ghost corps!!! - 8/2/2008 7:50:41 PM   
Dancing Bear

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		Thanks  Marshall.

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Post #: 18
RE: Help!! Can't proceed due to ghost corps!!! - 8/3/2008 12:38:49 PM   
Dancing Bear

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		Also Marshall, the same error caused the annilhilation of a Bristish cavalry corps the turn before, so if you can add Austrian's to a french POW camp, can you also add three British Cavalry factors to the same camp?
  Thanks in advance

      Bear.

(in reply to Dancing Bear)
Post #: 19
RE: Help!! Can't proceed due to ghost corps!!! - 8/4/2008 3:22:47 AM   
delatbabel


Posts: 1252
Joined: 7/30/2006
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Soapy Frog

Also a couple of other bugs with this particular game:

1) A freanch corps that was supposed to be in Paris teleported to Orleans during the French combat phase
2) The Austrian stack is mysteriously able to pay supply form an invalid supply depot in Soissons.
3) During the battle on Paris, cavalry superiority did not seem to be added in for the Austrians.

http://www.soapyfrog.net/eia/battle_of_paris_june_1805.jpg this is the battle after 1 cav has been lost for breaking. You can clearly see during the battle Austria had 18 cav to France's 9, which means Charles should have been rolling with a +1


I have almost (but not quite) nailed down a bug where the display of the bonuses gets reset when there is a change in circumstance. That doesn't affect the actual battle.

e.g. in a battle against Massena in a game I'm playing, Mack had 6 cav to 3 and therefore got a +1 bonus. On the 3rd round Napoleon reinforced with extra corps and the French got more cav, Mack's bonus on the previous rounds changed to a zero although the results below those rounds didn't actually change.

So I think this is a display bug and not a game bug, but if you can find a save game before the combat that'd be great.


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Del

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Post #: 20
RE: Help!! Can't proceed due to ghost corps!!! - 8/4/2008 3:26:30 AM   
delatbabel


Posts: 1252
Joined: 7/30/2006
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dancing Bear

The second is the river crossing. A river crossing disadvantage was applied to Charles attacking army, when only part of his army crossed a river. In this case, there should have been no river crossing penalty for Charles.



Not a bug, the game is correct:

7.5.2.7.1 River Crossing Combat Tables: If any of the attacking forces have crossed a river, a crossing arrow and/or disembarked from at sea to enter the combat area then the river sections (found only in the assault, escalated assault, echelon and probe columns on the cordon line) of the OPERATIONAL POSSIBILITIES CHART are used where appropriate for the first day's combat.

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Del

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Post #: 21
RE: Help!! Can't proceed due to ghost corps!!! - 8/4/2008 11:53:31 AM   
Dancing Bear

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		 
Del, I only noticed the lack of a +1 after the battle when looking at the screen shot posted after all was done, so I can not rule out a change in the dispaly status, although there was no reinforcement during the battle, so I'm not sure what could have changed. A retro-active display change after the loser must remove one cavalry perhaps?

HOWEVER, even if there was a display change, the rolls displayed also changed the morale damage to the opponent (shown on the top right of screen as the French final morale). French initial morale was 4.08, and final morale was 1.58. When I re-calculate what his morale should be after the battle, with a +1 applied to Austria, his final morale should have been 0.68, so even it were a dispaly change, the "display" affected the final morale of the opponent.

(in reply to delatbabel)
Post #: 22
RE: Help!! Can't proceed due to ghost corps!!! - 8/4/2008 12:00:14 PM   
Dancing Bear

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		Rule book incorrect for river crossing?

Del, in response to your point about the river crossing, before the battle, I looked up the rules supplied with the game (p71, 11.2.6), and they read "If ALL of the attacking forces crosses a river...."

I suspect the rule you quoted is from the original board game rules, and could well be correct, but the Matrix rule book says otherwise.

The original EIA make more sense to me, and clearly the game interprets the rules that way. Marshall, can Matrix change their rule book to say "any" instead of "all".

(in reply to Dancing Bear)
Post #: 23
RE: Help!! Can't proceed due to ghost corps!!! - 8/4/2008 12:56:36 PM   
Marshall Ellis


Posts: 5630
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Actually, it should be all. That makes more sense to me. There would only be the penalty of the river assault tables if ALL forces crossed the river.

_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



(in reply to Dancing Bear)
Post #: 24
RE: Help!! Can't proceed due to ghost corps!!! - 8/4/2008 2:00:23 PM   
eske

 

Posts: 258
Joined: 1/2/2008
Status: offline 		Sorry to disagree with you here, Marshall. It makes perfect sense to me, that if any part of an army entering a battle needs to cross a river, the defender gets an advantage.

But the relevance of rivers will be reduced significantly. It is not hard to avoid river bonus in battle using the EiA rule. Don't make rivers even less relevant. And it is easier to change the rulebook, right

/eske


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Alea iacta est

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Post #: 25
RE: Help!! Can't proceed due to ghost corps!!! - 8/4/2008 7:35:41 PM   
Marshall Ellis


Posts: 5630
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eske

Sorry to disagree with you here, Marshall. It makes perfect sense to me, that if any part of an army entering a battle needs to cross a river, the defender gets an advantage.

But the relevance of rivers will be reduced significantly. It is not hard to avoid river bonus in battle using the EiA rule. Don't make rivers even less relevant. And it is easier to change the rulebook, right

/eske



Sorry? That's not necessary to simply disagree with me :-) This could absolutely go either way. My thoughts are that it is much less of a defensive bonus if only part of the army comes across a river. Less of bonus that strategically might equal no bonus. If the entire army must land / or cross a river then that sounds way more like a defensive bonus to me.

I'm open here so you guys chime in...






_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



(in reply to eske)
Post #: 26
RE: Help!! Can't proceed due to ghost corps!!! - 8/4/2008 9:10:11 PM   
Dancing Bear

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		From our own groups internal discussion, I think you will find that most will want the rules to read if ANY corps cross the river then use the cross river tables.

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)
Post #: 27
RE: Help!! Can't proceed due to ghost corps!!! - 8/4/2008 9:47:25 PM   
AresMars

 

Posts: 234
Joined: 12/13/2007
Status: offline 		As concentration of force is an important requirement in war, a river (and river crossings, and naval landings) should make that more of a challenge for a commanding General to win battles.

Also, I am an EIA Purists (  ) and like the EiA wording....

7.5.2.7.1 River Crossing Combat Tables: If any of the attacking forces have crossed a river, a crossing arrow and/or disembarked from at sea to enter the combat area then the river sections (found only in the assault, escalated assault, echelon and probe columns on the cordon line) of the OPERATIONAL POSSIBILITIES CHART are used where appropriate for the first day's combat.

(source: http://eia.xnetz.com/rules/eiarules.html) Thanks delatbabel

Sorry Dancing Bear! 


(in reply to Dancing Bear)
Post #: 28
RE: Help!! Can't proceed due to ghost corps!!! - 8/5/2008 12:03:06 AM   
NeverMan

 

Posts: 1722
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline 		I prefer to play Classic EiA, so whatever the rules are of Empires in Arms, I would like Empires in Arms (the PC version) to follow those rules. I know that sounds crazy to a lot here though, for EiA to be like EiA.

(in reply to AresMars)
Post #: 29
RE: Help!! Can't proceed due to ghost corps!!! - 8/5/2008 12:05:51 AM   
Dancing Bear

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		I'm good with the original rules, but the rule book that came with the Matrix game says the river crossing applies if "ALL" the forces cross the river, not "any". That's what caused my screw up in our game.

(in reply to NeverMan)
Post #: 30
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