RayKinStL
Posts: 130
Joined: 7/4/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gwheelock
quote:
ORIGINAL: RayKinStL
quote:
ORIGINAL: gwheelock
No; what Jimmer & I are saying is that the programming difficulty of a game
is proportional to the number of options in the game (rules, counter types, etc).
Each one of those rules has to be incorporated into the code. (Rules ARE
code - its just code for humans instead of machines) & to create
an AI that can handle all of those options is also proportional.
And I DO believe that to MASTER (at the level equivalent to a chess
grand-master) EIA IS more difficult than Chess or GO - its just that
we don't HAVE an "EIA Grand-Master" level of player
While I agree the AI is harder to program in EiA, this is stictly because of the brute force approach computers can take to chess. Even then however, you clearly have no understanding of the YEARS it took programmers from huge companies like IBM to get computers to understand simple things like piece value, positional weaknesses, and how to attack with a plan. On a technical level, most AI for chess prgrams are dumb. They just have a simple calculation of piece value and utulize the massive processing power available nowadays to play a competent game until a human player makes a mistake.
That said, if you HONESTLY believe that mastering EiA would be harder than mastering chess, you are dillusional and have obviously never tried to play chess at a high level. While the "simple rules" make it easier for an AI to be coded and take advantage of brute force, it is also these simple rules and the number of possible moves that make chess FAR FAR FAR more complex than EiA. As both a chess player and an EiA player, I can assure you that while it took a game for me to get to a respectable level of play as far as EiA is concerned, it took YEARS before I really saw vast improvements in my chess game. Further, I sit here now, having played chess for 14 years almost, and I am still a simple class B player. While I really do respect everyone's opinions on these forums, the notion that EiA is harder to master or more complex than chess is simply ludicrous.
You say that you learned EIA in 1 game; fine. You can also "learn" chess in 1 or 2 games. What I am saying is that
to TOTALLY MASTER EIA to a level equivalent to a chess master or grandmaster would also take many years. By defintion;
a grandmaster can ALWAYS beat EVERYONE of a lesser rank - ALWAYS. We don't have anyone of that rank in EIA - AT ALL
(not one will ALWAYS be able to beat their opponants). You would be better off for comparison purposes to compare how
long it takes for someone to learn CASUAL chess - not expert ... because that is what most current EIAers are.
First of all, no most people don't learn how to play chess in 1 game. They may learn HOW the pieces move, but to even play the game at a beginner level takes numerous games. Second of all, that is not how ratings work at all. Often times, grandmasters lose to International Masters, Masters, or even Experts. There are no absolutes in chess. The reason we have no one like that in EiA is very simple to understand and I can explain it with one word...DICE! The fact that this game involves a die, and thus luck and chance, means that it will never be even close to on the same level as the game of chess. In chess, when you drop a piece againt a competen opponent, that is almost guaranteed to be the end. But in EiA, you can select Cordon as a defense against an Outflank, and the die rolls can still see you lose, even though you are in a favorable position. I love EiA, but the fact is that if someone called it a glorified version of Risk, I could not argue against that. Yes the rules are more intricate and there are different gameplay elements implemented to reduce chance and reward strategic thinking, but at the end of the turn, it still comes down to who rolls the better numbers on the die, and such is the same case in a game like Risk. It is absurd to even compare EiA to chess, and the fake that you even attempt to shows me how you know little to probably nothing about the game of chess. Please just stop arguing such a stupid point because it really is not even close to valid.
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