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Help with buggy scenario? - 8/9/2008 1:32:40 AM

ssclark

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Joined: 12/2/2002
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I've been playing the Vulcan 607 scenario from the Falklands battleset (#3.0) from the PlayersDB.

I've got several issues. Can anyone help with these? This is a scenario where you fly a Vulcan bomber with a bunch of Victor tankers (lots of refuelings to do) to attack the runway at Port Stanley. I've got so many "bugs" that I wonder if my save file is corrupt.

First, though the orders say to "crater the airstrip" I am unable to attack the runway. I keep getting the "weapon not capable" message on the attack screen. I can have the bomber "intercept" the base, but it attacks peripheral stuff at the base, if it even survives.

Second is a doozy of a bug. Just for practice, I had launched a pair of tankers in a group and flew them to the first refueling point. Once there, I detached each and ordered one to refuel from the other. This has resulted in both planes frozen in place, never moving and never returning to base no matter what I try. Once the one with the least fuel runs out (even after it shows a BINGO message and says "returning to base") the other one can then be ordered to return to base. I even tried sending in a 3rd plane to try to break these other 2 from each other, but then upon trying to refuel it with one of them, it too became a zombie. I can change the altitude, but any attempt to do a course change or return to base does not work.

I have a save game if that helps. I cannot win the scenario b/c I cannot stop that one Victor from crashing, and I cannot attack the runway.

A couple others: every time I load the game now I get a badly distorted tactical map screen. I can fix this by deleting it and doing a new zoom map from the 3.0 Vulcan 607 map.

Also, I've tried a couple of times to load the save file from within the game, but it freezes up. I can load just fine when starting up the game.

< Message edited by ssclark -- 8/9/2008 1:34:24 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: Help with buggy scenario? - 8/9/2008 1:42:34 AM

rsharp@advancedgamin

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Howdy,

The distorted zoom window is a known issue though it sounds like you have a found a easy way to repeat it.

The ATA refueling issue is an odd one. I will definitely take a look. Please send the save game and database to my e-mail address which I will PM to you. Then I can look at the "weapon not capable" issue as well.

Also, which version of the game are you using?

_____________________________

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Advanced Gaming Systems
Home of Computer Harpoon

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Post #: 2

Harpoon 3 scenarios for the PlayersDB - 8/9/2008 4:24:58 AM

hermanhum

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Freek's the author of that scen, but I think that I can provide some clarification, too.

That scenario was written and tested for ANW v3.7.0 At that time, runways could be attacked by the 454kg bombs on the Vulcan which had these flags for eligible targets:

Surface Vessel
Land Structure
Hardened Structure
Soft Target
Hardened Target

However, there was a change in either Patch 3.8 or 3.9 that required a weapon to specifically have the Runway flag in order to attack Runways. We'll make that change for the next release of the PlayersDB scheduled for Sept 1. Thanks for letting us know. Sorry that it wasn't caught earlier.

I haven't seen the re-fueling problem. I look forward to investigating it further. Looks like you've found ssclark's First Bug.

The Map Distortion problem has been around since H2. The quickest way to fix it is to either:

1) Maximize the map, then Minimize it to restore proportions, or
2) Delete it and draw a new one from the Game Map with F10

The inability to load a game while playing another game has previously been noted and was thought to have been fixed in 3.9.3. Looks like this one might be back with us.

Crash on re-load

Crash while attempting to re-load same scenario file previously opened.

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RE: Harpoon 3 scenarios for the PlayersDB - 8/9/2008 9:20:55 AM

FreekS

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When I designed this, I tested in 3.6 and 3.7.0 ANW Vulcan actually ran better in 3.7.0 ANW (especially the mid-air refueling.

I'm very disappointed to hear something has changed in 3.8.0 or 3.9x to reverse that.

I checked the release notes and wiki's for info on the changed flag of the 454 kg bomb and could not find anything to alert me that the DB or scen needed updating. I know AGSI has said several times that backwards integratability to 3.6. was not an objective but this scen was designed for 3.7.0 ANW.

Also a fun harpoon game depends equally on a good GE with nice features, on a regularly updated DB and on well crafted scens. With the very limited number of active DB and Scen designers we should be able to do better and yes, provide backward compatibility within ANW. I cannot retest all 70 scens every update unless I know what to look for

Freek

ssclark: Thanks for reporting this and sorry that this scen did not run as designed

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RE: Harpoon 3 scenarios for the PlayersDB - 8/9/2008 10:03:36 AM

FreekS

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OK I ran a test to check into the refueling

In the original testing I always flew all tankers individually, not in groups. Now I've tested with groups too.

- Launched 13 tankers and vulcans (all as individual units, not groups)
- on refuel point 1 refueled 8 tankers plus Vulcan from 5 (which RTB-d); no problem
- grouped 8 remaining tankers in two groups of 4 to go to refuel point 2
- refueled Vulcan from group of 4, then refueled group of four from gourp of four. No problem
(well, a minor one, the Vulcan refueling from the group seems to take fuel equally from all 4 tankers, not from 1, but thats not a big issue)
- group of 4 tankers plus Vulcan onto refuel point 3
- broke up tanker group at point 3, tanked Vulcan from one. ordered Vulcan to intercept a tanker (the tanker then freezes in mid-air waiting for the Vulcan - this is normal). Then ordered the Vulcan to intercept another tanker. Now I had something similar to sssclarks report; the first victor is frozen and will not lesten to orders (RTB for example). However when the Vulcan finished tanking from the second tanker, also the first got released again and I could RTB both.

- Vulcan flew on while all victors RTB.

So in this test I could not repeat the CTD. Herman is testing also and will post his report.

My suggestion would be to retry the scen with all tankers flying as units, not in groups.

Freek

< Message edited by FreekS -- 8/9/2008 10:14:40 AM >

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Harpoon - 8/9/2008 11:21:51 AM

hermanhum

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ssclark

Also, I've tried a couple of times to load the save file from within the game, but it freezes up. I can load just fine when starting up the game.

I can definitely confirm this occurrence. I ran and saved the scenario a few times. After loading up a saved game, I tried to open a different saved game, the game engine locked up.

To replicate the crash, load "2 Planes ordered to re-fuel.SAV" and then use File Open command to try and load, "3 Three planes start.SAV"

Okay, I tested the original scenario with 3.9.3 and the most recent PlayersDB version released Aug 1, 2008. I think that I've actually managed to make the situation worse.

I now have a replicable CTD found while testing.

I started with Vulcan.SCN and saved after every significant point for the following test files.

1 Arrive at first re-fuel pt.SAV
2 Planes ordered to re-fuel.SAV
3 Three planes start.SAV
4 Three planes finish.SAV
5 Last four pairs begin process.SAV

1 Arrive at first re-fuel pt.SAV

All planes launched and arrived at the first rendezvous point for re-fueling. No problems thus far.

2 Planes ordered to re-fuel.SAV

Planes pair off and are ordered to re-fuel.

3 Three planes start.SAV

The pairs/planes start the re-fueling process, but the other 4 do not appear able to start the re-fueling process. I repeatedly re-issue re-fuel orders in hopes of getting them to start the procedure.

4 Three planes finish.SAV

The first three planes finish re-fueling and I plot them away from the rendezvous point. The empty tankers RTB while the replenished planes continue onwards.

5 Last four pairs begin process.SAV

The last planes now begin to re-fuel. As they re-fuel, the game goes CTD. This process has been run 6 times and it hits CTD without fail. Six separate crash logs have been included.

In conclusion, I wasn't able to replicate the problem reported by ssclark, but I think I've found something that may be even worse.

Test files for this problem are posted at:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=1885771
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=1885774
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=1885776

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RE: Help with buggy scenario? - 8/9/2008 5:15:55 PM

ssclark

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Joined: 12/2/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rsharp@advancedgamin

Howdy,

The distorted zoom window is a known issue though it sounds like you have a found a easy way to repeat it.

The ATA refueling issue is an odd one. I will definitely take a look. Please send the save game and database to my e-mail address which I will PM to you. Then I can look at the "weapon not capable" issue as well.

Also, which version of the game are you using?

I've uploaded the files to you. I'm using the latest: 3.9.3.

Thanks very much for looking in to this. It looks like Herman has the "weapon not capable" issue with the bomber figured out.

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RE: Harpoon 3 scenarios for the PlayersDB - 8/9/2008 5:19:40 PM

ssclark

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Joined: 12/2/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FreekS

When I designed this, I tested in 3.6 and 3.7.0 ANW Vulcan actually ran better in 3.7.0 ANW (especially the mid-air refueling.

I'm very disappointed to hear something has changed in 3.8.0 or 3.9x to reverse that.

I checked the release notes and wiki's for info on the changed flag of the 454 kg bomb and could not find anything to alert me that the DB or scen needed updating. I know AGSI has said several times that backwards integratability to 3.6. was not an objective but this scen was designed for 3.7.0 ANW.

Also a fun harpoon game depends equally on a good GE with nice features, on a regularly updated DB and on well crafted scens. With the very limited number of active DB and Scen designers we should be able to do better and yes, provide backward compatibility within ANW. I cannot retest all 70 scens every update unless I know what to look for

Freek

ssclark: Thanks for reporting this and sorry that this scen did not run as designed

Hey, no need to apologize! I'm happy to find any possible bugs out there. It might very well turn out that I'm missing something or doing something wrong with regards to the bomber not hitting the airstrip rather than the other installations at the base.

Actually, all the other refuelings I did in the scenario went fine. Just that one with the two tankers that got, apparently, stuck trying to meet up and would not move or change course afterwards (until one crashed, then I was able to get the 2nd to return to base).

< Message edited by ssclark -- 8/9/2008 5:35:34 PM >

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RE: Harpoon 3 scenarios for the PlayersDB - 8/9/2008 5:32:56 PM

ssclark

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Joined: 12/2/2002
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I uploaded the save to the 3 of you!

To the best of my memory, here is what I did: launched 1 bomber by itself and then 10 tankers in a group. At the first refueling area, I broke up the tanker group into units and did refuelings. All went well. I got the bomber and 6 tankers off to the next area. From here all refueling along the way went well. I got bomber and 3 off at the next area and then bomber and 1, then just the bomber for its attack run.

However, for "fun" and to try things out, I launched a tanker group of 2. At the first area, I detached each into units. Then, I ordered one to refuel from the other. That's when they got stuck. They never did link up and do the refueling. I tried various methods through 3 or 4 reloads of the save. At times the units might say "returning to base" or I'd draw a plotted course, but they never moved. Once the unit with the least fuel showed the BINGO message, but still never moved. I could order the units to change altitude. Once the first tanker went down after running out of fuel, I could then return it to base.

The victory conditions for the Brits include not losing a single plane, so this bug kills that.

I think I may have also launched a couple of other tankers during the scenario, too.

I hope this helps!

< Message edited by ssclark -- 8/9/2008 5:41:36 PM >

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RE: Harpoon 3 scenarios for the PlayersDB - 8/9/2008 10:24:15 PM

rsharp@advancedgamin

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So replenishment, ATA refueling and UnRep, have the source unit or tanker idle while the receiving unit intercepts. Ordering two tankers to replenish each other leads to a deadlock where the refueling process orders both idle, continually overriding other orders. I've made the following changes to break that deadlock:

Ordering aircraft to refuel from a tanker will clear any refueling orders the tanker has. You will no longer be able to order two tankers to refuel each other simultaneously.
Unassign (u key) will now stop UnRep and ATA refueling but you must unassign both units. In the case that you get in this deadlock or any other, you can clear it.

These changes will be released in 3.9.4 after the beta testers have gone over it.

I've yet to have a crash after opening the scenarios repeatedly throughout the debugging. I'll try Herman's saves now.

Off-topic: Herman, the PDB installer script should probably not require the user to have Admin rights. This becomes a bigger issue with Vista.

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Advanced Gaming Systems
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Harpoon - 8/9/2008 11:24:40 PM

hermanhum

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rsharp@advancedgamin

So replenishment, ATA refueling and UnRep, have the source unit or tanker idle while the receiving unit intercepts.

Emphasis added by HH

This does not happen in 3.9.3

When a ship is ordered to replenish from another, the target tanker/logistics ship does not sit idle while the intercepting unit moves in. I certainly hope that this will not change in 3.9.4 because it would be erroneous, IMO. UnRep is Underway Replenishment and the current behaviour with the vessels remaining in motion is generally accurate.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rsharp@advancedgamin

I've yet to have a crash after opening the scenarios repeatedly throughout the debugging. I'll try Herman's saves now.

Off-topic: Herman, the PDB installer script should probably not require the user to have Admin rights. This becomes a bigger issue with Vista.

I think that the game going CTD during an air-to-air re-fueling procedure is probably more dire than the crash while re-loading. When the game crashes during the re-opening process, a player can always re-boot the game. The same cannot be said if the game goes CTD during re-fueling.

I'd be happy to not require a user to need Admin rights to execute the installer. If someone would be kind enough to tell me how to do this, I'll make it happen. I don't use Vista and know very little about the InnoSetup program code.

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RE: Harpoon - 8/10/2008 1:31:51 AM

rsharp@advancedgamin

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Just checked and I was incorrect about UnRep and there is no change. The destination ship will intercept the moving source unit as before.

I've tried to replicate both crashes, save game load and during ATA replenishment. I've failed to replicate either. I may be missing a step and the crash during ATA replenishment might have come from a broken case created from the bug.

File Load:
What files did you load? I tried the #2 and #3 save games in that order but did not get a crash. Did you let the save games run for any length of time? Are you using single player?

ATA Replenishment:
What TC are you using? How far into the save game does it crash?

Thanks for the input and playing.

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Advanced Gaming Systems
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RE: Harpoon - 8/10/2008 3:19:18 AM

ssclark

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I loaded my save of the scenario, let it play for a couple of minutes, then tried to load it again from within the game. It froze again, and does every time.

As Herm said, not a huge issue as I just go to the task bar and close the game out. Then rerun the game. I play in a big window rather than full screen. I guess this might be a bigger issue for a tester...

I am running Vista, if that makes any difference.

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Harpoon - 8/10/2008 3:40:14 AM

hermanhum

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rsharp@advancedgamin

File Load:
What files did you load? I tried the #2 and #3 save games in that order but did not get a crash. Did you let the save games run for any length of time? Are you using single player?

Freek and I both replicated the "Crash on Load" problem. We encounter it most often after loading #2 and then trying to load #3. Neither of us ran the saved game. All we did was attempt to load one file and then another.

We both used the 3.9.3 Game Engine for solitaire play and Windows XP home edition. Freek has service Pack 2, I have service pack 3. In general, both our computers are 2.4gHz dual core systems with 2mB RAM. I do not know what ssclark used, but I suspect something similar.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rsharp@advancedgamin

ATA Replenishment:
What TC are you using? How far into the save game does it crash?

I used 1:1 time compression and saved game #5. It crashes exactly 60 seconds after the saved game is loaded and run.

Attachment (1)

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Harpoon - 8/10/2008 5:59:35 AM

hermanhum

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A new edition of the PlayersDB and scenarios has been released that fixes the bomb problem. Feel free to update your files and give it a try. Thanks again for taking the time to let us know the problem.

Harpoon ANW users can get the
Complete Harpoon ANW Library

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RE: Harpoon - 8/10/2008 7:50:28 AM

FreekS

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rsharp@advancedgamin

File Load:
What files did you load? I tried the #2 and #3 save games in that order but did not get a crash. Did you let the save games run for any length of time? Are you using single player?

Freek and I both replicated the "Crash on Load" problem. We encounter it most often after loading #2 and then trying to load #3. Neither of us ran the saved game. All we did was attempt to load one file and then another.

We both used the 3.9.3 Game Engine for solitaire play and Windows XP home edition. Freek has service Pack 2, I have service pack 3. In general, both our computers are 2.4gHz dual core systems with 2mB RAM. I do not know what ssclark used, but I suspect something similar.

In my testing it seemed to freeze up on the Third different file I tried to load. It freezes right on opening saved game, I did not let any of the files run. I agree with Herman its not a real big issue but I replicated it 4 or 5 times. Freek

< Message edited by FreekS -- 8/10/2008 7:52:49 AM >

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Harpoon - 8/10/2008 9:03:20 AM

hermanhum

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FreekS

I agree with Herman its not a real big issue but I replicated it 4 or 5 times.

Emphasis by HH

Sorry, I never said that it wasn't a big issue. I simply said that when compared to a CTD occurring while the game ran, it was a lesser issue. IMO, it is a serious major issue (especially for someone running tests over and over).

At least the proposed new Unassign capability will (hopefully) solve:

Cannot rescind re-fuel order

It is not possible to rescind air-to-air re-fueling order once it is issued.

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RE: Harpoon - 8/10/2008 7:42:24 PM

ssclark

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hermanhum

A new edition of the PlayersDB and scenarios has been released that fixes the bomb problem. Feel free to update your files and give it a try. Thanks again for taking the time to let us know the problem.

Harpoon ANW users can get the
Complete Harpoon ANW Library

Cool! At least now I can crater the runway, if not keep one of my refueling planes from falling into the ocean...

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RE: Harpoon - 8/10/2008 8:01:11 PM

ssclark

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I successfully played the 4th scenario in the Falklands set, where you command the British SSN and take out the cruiser General Belgrano. Ran it twice with no problems.

Last night I started up the May Day scenario (#5 in the set) and saved the game. I tried reloading this scenario from within the game several times, and had no problem doing so.

But, I did notice one oddity. Before saving I had left open a formation window for the British CVBG, but when reloading the game, the ships are no longer in it. Either just an empty one or, more often, one showing an AAW arc. No ships. So, I delete it and do another one. No big deal, but a mild nuisance, I suppose, to have to redo it after previously setting it up, resizing it, etc. to keep an eye on the ships in that group.

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RE: Harpoon - 8/10/2008 8:12:11 PM

ssclark

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I just updated the PlayersDB, but now I cannot load the old save files to test out the bomber hitting the airstrip.

I'm guessing my only solution is to restart that scenario?

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Harpoon - 8/10/2008 8:36:57 PM

hermanhum

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ssclark

I just updated the PlayersDB, but now I cannot load the old save files to test out the bomber hitting the airstrip.

I'm guessing my only solution is to restart that scenario?

Yup. Welcome to our world

Read about this silly function:

Signature function

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RE: Harpoon - 8/10/2008 8:54:02 PM

FreekS

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ssclark

I successfully played the 4th scenario in the Falklands set, where you command the British SSN and take out the cruiser General Belgrano. Ran it twice with no problems.

Last night I started up the May Day scenario (#5 in the set) and saved the game. I tried reloading this scenario from within the game several times, and had no problem doing so.

But, I did notice one oddity. Before saving I had left open a formation window for the British CVBG, but when reloading the game, the ships are no longer in it. Either just an empty one or, more often, one showing an AAW arc. No ships. So, I delete it and do another one. No big deal, but a mild nuisance, I suppose, to have to redo it after previously setting it up, resizing it, etc. to keep an eye on the ships in that group.

The May Day, San Carlos, Bluff Cove, and Sea King to Chile-scens are the tough ones with all sorts of combat happening at the same time; ASW, ASuW, AAW; and ground strikes! Congrats on moving into the more difficult part of the Battleset!

The oddity you describe I believe can be fixed by defining your own preferred composition of the windows. I've not done this myself and I just do what you did; close the window and mae a new one!

Freek

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Harpoon - 8/10/2008 9:04:23 PM

hermanhum

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ssclark

But, I did notice one oddity. Before saving I had left open a formation window for the British CVBG, but when reloading the game, the ships are no longer in it. Either just an empty one or, more often, one showing an AAW arc. No ships. So, I delete it and do another one. No big deal, but a mild nuisance, I suppose, to have to redo it after previously setting it up, resizing it, etc. to keep an eye on the ships in that group.

I'll confirm your bug and raise you, one bug.

Formation Editor appears empty

Formation Editor distorted

< Message edited by hermanhum -- 8/10/2008 9:08:38 PM >

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RE: Harpoon - 8/12/2008 10:47:53 PM

ssclark

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Okay, after installing the new updated PlayersDB, I reran scenario #3.

I was able to bomb the airstrip!!

Also, I was able to duplicate the bugs. I had 2 planes try to refuel each other and get stuck.

After saving the game a few times, I tried to load the save from within the game and got the freeze-up again.

Also, I got another stuck refueling plane. This time just 1 by itself suddenly stopped moving and eventually drops into the ocean. This one did NOT do this while trying to refuel or link up with another. Instead, this was one of several planes that had already completed some refueling and was simply trying to go home from the 2nd refueling area. I've got a save showing this, if anyone wants to see it.

So, still some issues with refueling planes. I know how to avoid the first issue -- don't order planes to try to refuel each other...they will get stuck. Just order ONE to refuel from another that is doing nothing. But, I can't explain the other, new instance...

< Message edited by ssclark -- 8/12/2008 10:48:21 PM >

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Problem - 8/13/2008 12:31:27 AM

hermanhum

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ssclark

Also, I got another stuck refueling plane. This time just 1 by itself suddenly stopped moving and eventually drops into the ocean. This one did NOT do this while trying to refuel or link up with another. Instead, this was one of several planes that had already completed some refueling and was simply trying to go home from the 2nd refueling area. I've got a save showing this, if anyone wants to see it.

AGSI claims that a fix has been implemented for the first refueling problem so it might also fix this one, but there's no way to know since it isn't a public process. You can only test to confirm it once the next patch is released.

IMO, it's a waste of time to look at this new problem because it could be covered by the fix for the other problem you previously reported. I would suggest that you just make a note of it to yourself on how to re-create the situation and then re-test for the problem when 3.9.4 is released (whenever that may be).

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