"Modern era"

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"Modern era" - 8/16/2008 6:45:10 PM

dgk196

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What is your opinion on this?

Can 'Modern era', say Korea +, be accurately represented?

Given the amount of information, from weapons systems details to 'human' factors being classified, can any 'game' really be much of a sim that 'covers' this era?

Dennis

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RE: "Modern era" - 8/17/2008 12:16:26 PM

Widell

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TOAW and for air and naval Harpoon...

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RE: "Modern era" - 8/17/2008 3:24:49 PM

Grell

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Yep, The Operational Art of War is perfect for that.

Regards,

Greg

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RE: "Modern era" - 8/17/2008 8:23:37 PM

Widell

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Here's a link to a thread with a link (

) in the TOAW forum. The link is to a Korea scenario. I never tried it, but it should probably have decent read me file if you download even before deciding to buy: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1420947&mpage=1

Here's an AAR for this(?) or another scenario. Should give a flavour of what TOAW is capable of when it comes to Korea: http://hi.baidu.com/toaw/blog/item/f03903016f967d021c958327.html (The site is somewhat slow, so be patient for the graphics to load)
EDIT: This looks like the standard Korea scenario that comes with TOAW. Not a bad one, and it's even the tutorial of the whole game IIRC.
EDIT #2: Or maybe not... I must be confused. Anyway, I hope your information regarding TOAW. Maybe someone can pitch in for Harpoon and Korea? That's another great game, but veeeery different from TOAW...

< Message edited by Widell -- 8/17/2008 8:33:11 PM >

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RE: "Modern era" - 8/18/2008 9:24:55 AM

Adam Parker

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In the boardgaing world, Avalon Hill did it with their MBT/IDF, Firepower and Flight Leader games long ago. Plenty of help with DYO in those titles too.

The Middle East and Eastern European theatres have been fielding WW2 vintage armor for decades. MBT/IDF very well depicts the challenges of differing optics between the West and Eastern Blocs too.

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RE: "Modern era" - 8/19/2008 2:06:30 AM

Veldor

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

In the boardgaing world, Avalon Hill did it with their MBT/IDF, Firepower and Flight Leader games long ago. Plenty of help with DYO in those titles too.

The Middle East and Eastern European theatres have been fielding WW2 vintage armor for decades. MBT/IDF very well depicts the challenges of differing optics between the West and Eastern Blocs too.

Yeah I don't think anyone ever questioned much that MBT/IDF was a fine simulation. It certainly boiled with accuracy to me. It never quite had the same zest to play that ASL did but kinda struck me as AH's closest thing to a modern ASL. Big Fan, if only formerly. Obviously more tank focused though.

Firepower might have been?? the first game to ever use an impulse like system like Lock'nLoad and others do now. I thought it was a mess of a game though. In pretty much every aspect. Pretty to look at though. Don't think it ever really caught on then or now.

Flight Leader...went where almost no game had gone then or since... Didn't it get made into a PC Game (or something similar, I think I once owned the PC game).

Certainly owned and played all 3 board games.

But in response to the thread Im not sure ANY game can be sure to be historically accurate. Lets rewind to ancient games. Yeah and exactly how certain can we be about various facts there? As if none of that got rewritten or altered through time. No different than some of the mis-statements or classified nature about some modern weaponry or events. Its simply mostly accurate and more than enough so for gaming purposes.

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RE: "Modern era" - 8/19/2008 6:59:18 AM

BoredStiff

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dgk196

What is your opinion on this?

Can 'Modern era', say Korea +, be accurately represented?

Given the amount of information, from weapons systems details to 'human' factors being classified, can any 'game' really be much of a sim that 'covers' this era?

Dennis

In the first place, I'm under the impression that there's not too much in regard to modern conventional weapons that is classified, at least not too much that would make a big difference in a game.

There may be some ballistics specifications in regard to armor and some performance specifications in regard to aircraft, but off-hand I can't think of much else that would/might have an impact on a game, and even these factors might only have an effect in tactical games, not operational or strategic.

Otoh, the actual performance of various untested weapons presents a much bigger "if" than anything else, it seems to me. But that can also work toward a game developer's benefit, since he does not have to maintain the same degree of accuracy that would be the case in a historical game.

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RE: "Modern era" - 8/20/2008 4:42:09 AM

dgk196

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"In the first place, I'm under the impression that there's not too much in regard to modern conventional weapons that is classified,"

Thats my point, if its classified (and believe me much is still, and should be), how would you know? And if you don't know what, how do you know its effect?

Generally speaking..........

The military does not 'classify' common knowledge information.

The 'systems' used today are 'upgrades' of basic concepts or principals. Its more those than the latest high tech upgrades. They are just a means to an end!

They are not the methods themselves, which is what remains classified.

I was a 'wargamer' before entering the 'service'. I always tried to apply what I was being taught, and eventually 'learned', to 'games'.

I found that little to nothing of the 'important' information existed in any game, especially the 'air' combat games.

For all intents and purposes, you may as well be playing 'chutes and ladders' when it comes to the authenticity and accuracy of 'modern' wargames!

Just my opinion..........

Dennis

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RE: "Modern era" - 8/20/2008 5:58:33 AM

Veldor

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dgk196

I found that little to nothing of the 'important' information existed in any game, especially the 'air' combat games.

That's because the bulk of 'air' technology came from the crashes of UFOs.

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RE: "Modern era" - 8/20/2008 9:10:13 AM

JudgeDredd

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I think I still have MBT....bought it and never played it. Once I took the rules out and started on them, then looked at the terrain modifier tables etc, it went back in the box. I always aspired to play it, but just didn't find the time. Maybe now I've got back into board gaming with Memoir '44 I can get back to it...although they are completely different beasts.

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RE: "Modern era" - 8/20/2008 9:51:16 AM

Adam Parker

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I think I still have MBT....

The original designer Jim Day is working on a non-Hasbro update.

As of July it's "still in the concept stage" per Consimworld. Lot's of chatter going on.

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