Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Are diesel subs actually a useful asset?

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [Modern] >> Larry Bond's Harpoon - Commander's Edition >> Are diesel subs actually a useful asset? Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Are diesel subs actually a useful asset? - 8/20/2008 3:36:49 PM   
Unzen


Posts: 32
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline 		I've tended to ignore them for the most part on any scenario. Preferring to use them as a creeping set of underwater ears than anything more useful. Have I not come across the right type if diesel sub yet, to make an error in this judgement!? :)

I've always assumed that they are too slow and too noisy to be of much use in Harpoon's waters?

_____________________________

Rusty 'ol Harpoon player - circa 1989
Post #: 1
RE: Are diesel subs actually a useful asset? - 8/20/2008 3:47:23 PM   
Stalintc


Posts: 291
Joined: 8/2/2006
From: Bristol UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Unzen

I've tended to ignore them for the most part on any scenario. Preferring to use them as a creeping set of underwater ears than anything more useful. Have I not come across the right type if diesel sub yet, to make an error in this judgement!? :)

I've always assumed that they are too slow and too noisy to be of much use in Harpoon's waters?



Actually the Kilo diesel submarine can be very useful in sneaking up to SAGs and other battlegroups for a torpedo salvo. They are actually as quiet as if not quieter than your average nuclear submarine when they are submerged and running on batteries, provided of course you can get close enough for a good battery run to close on the surface group..

Usually running ahead of the group you wish to attack using the diesel engines and then lying in their path requires little correctional manuvering can be the best way to get at your target while using the least battery power, making them come to you rather than going to them.

It is not the sub its how you use them

_____________________________

HCE Beta Tester
HCE Icon Mod available here
HCE Sound Mod available here

(in reply to Unzen)
Post #: 2
RE: Are diesel subs actually a useful asset? - 8/20/2008 3:48:57 PM   
CV32


Posts: 1046
Joined: 5/15/2006
From: The Rock, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Unzen
I've tended to ignore them for the most part on any scenario. Preferring to use them as a creeping set of underwater ears than anything more useful. Have I not come across the right type if diesel sub yet, to make an error in this judgement!? :) I've always assumed that they are too slow and too noisy to be of much use in Harpoon's waters?


Diesel subs are difficult to operate effectively in open ocean, 'bluewater' environments. They lack the speed and endurance to be able to be deployed far from home in a useful period of time (for most scenarios), and that same lack of speed and endurance makes it hard for them to 'catch' surface ships.

In the littoral, 'brown water' environment, however, or along coastlines or in maritime chokepoints such as straits (e.g. Gibraltar, Hormuz, Malacca, etc), the diesel sub is deadly. In these situations, naval traffic must pass through a narrow body of water. If a diesel sub can lurk quietly and patiently here, potential targets must come to the sub rather than the sub having to chase them. Because of this, the diesel sub is sometimes referred to as the "moving minefield".

I would not want to underestimate the threat posed by a modern, quiet diesel electric or AIP submarine in this kind of environment, nor would I dismiss such an asset if it were available to me.

_____________________________

Brad Leyte
HC3 development group member for HCE
Author of HCDB official database for HCE
Harpgamer.com Co-Owner

(in reply to Unzen)
Post #: 3
RE: Are diesel subs actually a useful asset? - 8/20/2008 4:34:21 PM   
Unzen


Posts: 32
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline 		Ah, maybe I've been slating them too early then! I think a little more diesel-subbing is called for - noise, or no noise!

_____________________________

Rusty 'ol Harpoon player - circa 1989

(in reply to CV32)
Post #: 4
RE: Are diesel subs actually a useful asset? - 8/21/2008 2:16:23 PM   
CV32


Posts: 1046
Joined: 5/15/2006
From: The Rock, Canada
Status: offline 		I should add that, for the diesel sub crew, life is pretty tough. if you're detected, and your enemy has any sort of decent ASW gear, your life is also probably going to be pretty short. You don't have the speed and endurance to run away or dive to safer depths, and since you're probably already operating in restricted waters, there aren't many places you could run anyway.

Lt. Werner: "I asked for it. 'To be heading into the inexorable...where no mother will care for us...no woman crosses our path...where only reality reigns...with cruelty and grandeur.' I was drunk with those words. Well, this is reality."

Great fun.

_____________________________

Brad Leyte
HC3 development group member for HCE
Author of HCDB official database for HCE
Harpgamer.com Co-Owner

(in reply to Unzen)
Post #: 5
RE: Are diesel subs actually a useful asset? - 8/24/2008 9:43:15 PM   
SireChaos

 

Posts: 710
Joined: 8/14/2006
From: Frankfurt, Germany
Status: offline 		Essentially, you should use them like an intelligent, self-redeploying minefield. Put them in the enemy´s way, then wait for him to come to them. And then - KABOOM!

What CV32 said goes for all subs, I guess, against a capable opponent. A single submarine against a surface task force is a forlorn hope - but a reasonably capable submarine, handled with reasonable competence, can do dreadful damage before it is sunk.

(in reply to CV32)
Post #: 6
RE: Are diesel subs actually a useful asset? - 8/25/2008 12:23:01 AM   
Warhorse64

 

Posts: 154
Joined: 12/9/2007
Status: offline 		Actually, unless the AI side is very well set up (rare) or gets unreasonably lucky (also rare), a properly handled modern SSN has an excellent chance of laying waste to a surface group and then slipping away untouched. Probably the biggest danger is fields of active sonobuoys. 

(in reply to SireChaos)
Post #: 7
RE: Are diesel subs actually a useful asset? - 8/25/2008 12:30:39 AM   
CV32


Posts: 1046
Joined: 5/15/2006
From: The Rock, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Warhorse64
... a properly handled modern SSN has an excellent chance of laying waste to a surface group and then slipping away untouched.


Prime example:
Date: 2 May 1982
Location: South Atlantic
SSN: HMS Conqueror.
Target: ARA General Belgrano steaming with Task Force 79.3.
Result:



_____________________________

Brad Leyte
HC3 development group member for HCE
Author of HCDB official database for HCE
Harpgamer.com Co-Owner

(in reply to Warhorse64)
Post #: 8
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [Modern] >> Larry Bond's Harpoon - Commander's Edition >> Are diesel subs actually a useful asset? Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.688