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Screenshot - 4/10/2002 5:08:32 AM   
ratster

 

Posts: 166
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: PA
Status: offline 		Nice screenshot of the whole pacific theatre for WITP, on the main page;

http://www.matrixgames.com/insidemg/devshots_inside.php

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" If it be now, tis not to come: if it be not to come, it will be now; if it be not now, yet it will come: the readiness is all"

Clan [GOAT]
Post #: 1
- 4/10/2002 8:55:22 AM   
stretch

 

Posts: 636
Joined: 12/17/2001
Status: offline 		wow. I count 40ish hexes from Pearl to San Francisco. This is compared to PacWar being about 25? (that’s a guess without looking based on range 5 planes being able to rebase west coast to Hawaii but not range 4)

For some reason I imagined it even larger than that... I must have been on drugs.

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Post #: 2
- 4/10/2002 9:18:58 AM   
ratster

 

Posts: 166
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: PA
Status: offline 		Yeah, PacWar hexes are 100 miles across, these are supposed to be either 50 or 60 miles across (originally it was 60, but I think it has changed to 50). Its one big honkin map... :D

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" If it be now, tis not to come: if it be not to come, it will be now; if it be not now, yet it will come: the readiness is all"

Clan [GOAT]

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Post #: 3
- 4/10/2002 11:10:32 AM   
IChristie

 

Posts: 673
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Its one big honkin map... [/QUOTE]

Brother, you can say that again :rolleyes:

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Iain Christie
-----------------
"If patience is a virtue then persistence is it's part.
It's better to light a candle than stand and curse the dark"

- James Keelaghan

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Post #: 4
Nice Screenshot but.... - 4/10/2002 11:16:40 AM   
gus

 

Posts: 237
Joined: 3/16/2002
From: Corvallis, OR
Status: offline 		does anyone know if the apparent land bridge between Java and Sumatra in this image is intentional or a graphical "smudge"?

Cheers

Gus

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Post #: 5
- 4/10/2002 11:57:23 AM   
ratster

 

Posts: 166
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: PA
Status: offline 		Doesn't appear to be a smudge, but it's definitely geographically incorrect.

_____________________________

" If it be now, tis not to come: if it be not to come, it will be now; if it be not now, yet it will come: the readiness is all"

Clan [GOAT]

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Post #: 6
- 4/10/2002 12:33:53 PM   
IChristie

 

Posts: 673
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		Clearly the map artist was either drunk, delusional or sleep deprived. He should be paraded in front of the forum and soundly flamed...:o

Or he could just promise to fix the map. Whadya think?

_____________________________

Iain Christie
-----------------
"If patience is a virtue then persistence is it's part.
It's better to light a candle than stand and curse the dark"

- James Keelaghan

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Post #: 7
- 4/10/2002 12:52:16 PM   
gus

 

Posts: 237
Joined: 3/16/2002
From: Corvallis, OR
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by IChristie
[B]Clearly the map artist was either drunk, delusional or sleep deprived. He should be paraded in front of the forum and soundly flamed...:o

Or he could just promise to fix the map. Whadya think? [/B][/QUOTE]

Can we do both :)

-g

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Post #: 8
- 4/10/2002 12:59:36 PM   
IChristie

 

Posts: 673
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		Well, I know we can do the latter.

The former is entirely up to you.

Seriously, though, good catch guys. Thanks for the input.

_____________________________

Iain Christie
-----------------
"If patience is a virtue then persistence is it's part.
It's better to light a candle than stand and curse the dark"

- James Keelaghan

(in reply to ratster)
Post #: 9
- 4/10/2002 9:40:31 PM   
Paul Vebber


Posts: 11430
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Portsmouth RI
Status: offline 		I think there are a couple other tweaks - note that this is the "alpha" map it will be given another coat of polish when it is updated to the standard of the current UV final maps...

Thanks!

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Post #: 10
- 4/11/2002 1:11:26 AM   
byron13


Posts: 1589
Joined: 7/27/2001
Status: offline 		And Australia is, well . . . green. I guess that means there is no desert hex type.

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Post #: 11
map - 4/11/2002 10:25:08 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Sigh......The future of wargaming is secure. I am going to learn C++ so I can be a war game programer when I grow up.

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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

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Post #: 12
- 4/11/2002 10:28:46 AM   
stretch

 

Posts: 636
Joined: 12/17/2001
Status: offline 		Bill wants you to learn C#. Resistance is futile.

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Post #: 13
- 4/12/2002 3:46:30 AM   
Ranger-75


Posts: 610
Joined: 6/29/2001
From: Giant sand box
Status: offline 		Actually Jsva and Sumatra were once one long island. But that was prior to 535AD when the largest volcano explosion ever occurred. It was the original Krakatoa eruption. It was heard as far away as China and it caused a global famine.:eek:

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Post #: 14
Re: Nice Screenshot but.... - 4/13/2002 2:55:33 PM   
HMSWarspite

 

Posts: 1401
Joined: 4/13/2002
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by gus
[B]does anyone know if the apparent land bridge between Java and Sumatra in this image is intentional or a graphical "smudge"?

Cheers

Gus [/B][/QUOTE]
Looks to be the same problem between India and Ceylon. I know they get close (there is that sort of ripped off look at the northern tip of Ceylon), but I don't think they meet!;)
[speelin browt to u bye 15th century spel chequers ink]

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Post #: 15
- 4/14/2002 2:10:02 AM   
ratster

 

Posts: 166
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: PA
Status: offline 		Yeah, there's actaully quite a bit of land joined together that shouldn't be, Hokkaido and Shikoku are attached to Honshu in the screenshot, but not in reality. I'm sure there's more, and I'm sure it'll be fixed. :)

_____________________________

" If it be now, tis not to come: if it be not to come, it will be now; if it be not now, yet it will come: the readiness is all"

Clan [GOAT]

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Post #: 16
- 4/15/2002 8:52:53 AM   
akbrown


Posts: 43
Joined: 9/6/2000
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		I also noticed that Australia seems to have huge areas of forest on this map, in areas where they don't belong. Nearly all of central and north-west Australia should be arid/desert type terrain. Also, the placement of mountains in Australia seems to be a bit odd.

Is the 'green' Australia going to be corrected?

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Post #: 17
- 4/16/2002 12:15:03 AM   
corbulo

 

Posts: 213
Joined: 2/28/2002
From: rigel 5
Status: offline 		Australia seems too big. I know it is larger than India, but in this map it seems larger than the rest of asia. Is this a Mercator projection map?

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Post #: 18
- 4/16/2002 1:01:26 AM   
IChristie

 

Posts: 673
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		If anyone can point me to a good site for composite satellite imagery or something similar that would show the colour and texture of terrain in these areas that would be very helpful.

_____________________________

Iain Christie
-----------------
"If patience is a virtue then persistence is it's part.
It's better to light a candle than stand and curse the dark"

- James Keelaghan

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Post #: 19
- 4/16/2002 1:55:32 AM   
CynicAl


Posts: 327
Joined: 7/27/2001
From: Brave New World
Status: offline 		Is this the sort of thing you're looking for?

[URL=http://edcdaac.usgs.gov/glcc/images/gif/apigbp1_2.jpg]From the USGS[/URL]

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Post #: 20
- 4/16/2002 2:05:29 AM   
ratster

 

Posts: 166
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: PA
Status: offline 		I have a National Geographic map of Australia which has a satelite image on the reverse side. If you can't find anyting let me know and I'll scan both sides and send it to ya in JPG format. BTW there's not a whole lot of green, except around the coast.

_____________________________

" If it be now, tis not to come: if it be not to come, it will be now; if it be not now, yet it will come: the readiness is all"

Clan [GOAT]

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Post #: 21
- 4/16/2002 3:06:07 AM   
IChristie

 

Posts: 673
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		Cynic Al, yes that's great thanks.

BTW, I've been thinking this one over and I think the trick is going to be having a map that is aesthically pleasing to most people while also managing to indicate unambiguously what terrain "type" is in each hex.

In other words the number of textures has to be restricted so that they represent particular terrain types (open, forest, dry/desert, swamp) but we still want "open" country in Australia to look different from the siberian steppes or farmland in China.

I would be interested to hear some opinions on how well that was achieved on the UV map

Going to have to think about this one and try a few things...

_____________________________

Iain Christie
-----------------
"If patience is a virtue then persistence is it's part.
It's better to light a candle than stand and curse the dark"

- James Keelaghan

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Post #: 22
terrain types - 4/16/2002 3:24:21 AM   
brisd


Posts: 614
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: San Diego, CA
Status: offline 		I would suspect that the open terrain in Siberia is tundra, not desert as is most of Mongolia or western Australia. If I were constructing the WITP map (oooh what a fantasy for an amateur geographer), I would determine what areas of the Pacific you plan to have operational. how many terrain types my database can handle and determine what and where those types reside (the hard part). Looking at the big beautiful map you've shown us I would think that interior Siberia, Alaska and the water surrounding that far (Arctic) region are not in play for this game.

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Post #: 23
- 4/16/2002 4:59:59 AM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline 		To CynicAL

That map you linked to is misleading.

It correctly shops that most of Australia is dry.

But it also shows that the Philippines and Indonesia are dry. Very weird. :)

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Post #: 24
- 4/16/2002 1:22:57 PM   
CynicAl


Posts: 327
Joined: 7/27/2001
From: Brave New World
Status: offline 		What can I say? I linked the first decent map I came across after a quick search - I can't spend all day doing this, you know!

Could it be that the map shows vegetation, rather than rainfall? I found the map, but not the legend explaining it. It may well be that the map is an accurate representation, but is not depicting what we think.

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Post #: 25
from a local - 4/16/2002 5:04:06 PM   
stubby331


Posts: 268
Joined: 10/24/2001
From: Perth, Western Australia
Status: offline 		Im afraid that Australias terrain cannot be easily tagged.

It ranges from Tropical rainforest in the north-east to extensive temperate rainforest in both the southeast and west of the country, forests of eucalypts over 60metres tall.

The red centre ranges from "sahara" like sandy deserts to vast plains of semi-arid woodland.

we have mountains, snowfields in winter, I could go on....

All this, just a tiny bit smaller than the US of A and only 7 million people in the whole country during WW2.

The possiblities are endless.

If Matrix spend the time to get it right....

(in reply to ratster)
Post #: 26
- 4/16/2002 7:32:40 PM   
akbrown


Posts: 43
Joined: 9/6/2000
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		Take a look at the map on this page. It is, presumably, a contemporary map but shouldn't be too different from what Australia was like 60 years ago.

[URL=http://www.geog.umd.edu/landcover/8km-map/p7fullres.html]http://www.geog.umd.edu/landcover/8km-map/p7fullres.html[/URL]

Most of central Australia consists of 'scrubland', which is basically arid plains with light scrubby vegetation, and the occasoinal bit of real (sandy) desert here and there. The north and northeast is tropical (grassland/'jungle'), the east is sub-tropical (grassland/forest), and the southeast and southwest is temperate (graasland/forest). Of course that is a very general and vague description!

I hope this helps...

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Post #: 27
Excellent! - 4/16/2002 8:22:36 PM   
IChristie

 

Posts: 673
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		That will be a big help.

I cannot speak for how many terrain types there will be or how they will affect game play. Those kinds of decisions are in the capable hands or Mr Grigsby et. al. My job is to take their scheme and make a (hopefully) attractive map for us all to play on.

Obviously, it is a decision that could have far reaching effects in the game. I certainly wouldn't want to end up with a terrain model that was designed to generate an attractive map at the expense of game mechanics.

So, as I said in my previous post, it's clear that the map needs to be spruced up. However, there is a limit to how closely it can ever represent real local terrain conditions because it also has to function as a "game board" which can contain only a fairly limited set of terrain types. We will obviously have to try and reach some compromise between generic terrain textures which homogenize the terrain globally (leading to this sort of discussion), and too much variation in texture which will make it difficult for players to know what terrain exists in which hex.

Keep the suggestions and information coming. I can't promise to use it all, but it all helps.

_____________________________

Iain Christie
-----------------
"If patience is a virtue then persistence is it's part.
It's better to light a candle than stand and curse the dark"

- James Keelaghan

(in reply to ratster)
Post #: 28
a link - 4/17/2002 9:00:34 AM   
stubby331


Posts: 268
Joined: 10/24/2001
From: Perth, Western Australia
Status: offline 		Hi General staff,

Some links to help you on your way in discovering some more detail of this great southern land.

http://www.walis.wa.gov.au/walis/content/our_country.html

hope it helps.

Stubby

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Post #: 29
found a great map site - 4/17/2002 5:05:49 PM   
stubby331


Posts: 268
Joined: 10/24/2001
From: Perth, Western Australia
Status: offline 		Hello all.

Did some digging on WWW, based on the link I posted earlier today.

Found a great site where you draw on real data from an extensive database to populate an Australian map with whatever info you want, to whatever scale you want, ONLINE!

Just go to this link, and click on Mapmaker.

http://audit.ea.gov.au/ANRA/atlas_home.cfm

Interesting stuff.

(in reply to ratster)
Post #: 30
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