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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> WW2: Road to Victory >> Mods and Scenarios >> Retarded AI

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Retarded AI - 8/25/2008 1:56:13 AM

bigdogcurt

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Joined: 8/25/2008
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Has anyone else noticed how ridiculous the AI is after the initial stages of invading Russia. Once you blow by the first "layer" or two cities, the AI abandons them all anytime you bring any forces near them.....not even a fight for Moscow. Fighting France was more difficult. Making the game "hard" only changes PP values....the AI is tremendously flawed.

Post #: 1

RE: Retarded AI - 8/25/2008 6:20:08 AM

Twotribes

Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
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The problem is that the AI defends cities and repairs units rather than build new. You will notice when the AI has the PP it builds layers around cities and allows itself to be surrounded in them.

The Soviets do not have enough PP to repair the damage the Germans do and build new forces. So the Germans surround cities full of troops and the AI keeps trying to repair those forces, leaving no new troops for the farther back cities. Once you surround and destroy those forces you also will have driven deep into Russia capturing undefended cities, so the Soviets have no way to build a new army around all the other cities.

(in reply to bigdogcurt)

Post #: 2

RE: Retarded AI - 8/25/2008 2:30:47 PM

winky51

Posts: 164
Joined: 1/18/2005
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In my game the German AI attacked the Soviet AI and the Soviet AI overran them the 1st few turns (july 1941). Thre were no German troops on the border. Remember though a game on this scale it is unbelievably difficult to make a good AI. They are trying to do it for World in Flames and personally I think they should just put out a networkable version. In GG World at War, latest patch, the AI is fairly decent but eventually you beat it without giving it uberproduction. If they can't make a perfect AI in that area based game then how the hell can they do it for a division or corp level game.

They only way I can see developing a good AI for a computer game like WW2 is 1st off make sure its corp level at worst. Then set specific strategies for the AI. Lets say the computer is playing Germany. It picks an option at start of game.
1. All out vs Russia, ignore England
2. Russia 1941, keep England at bay (heavy atlantic battle with subs)
3. Russia 1942 from eastern front and Turkish border, Med strategy 1941 to protect Italy (except gibralter)
4. Russia 1942, Take Gibralter and Egypt 1941
5. Russia 1941 winter attack + med strategy (assumes Germany took out France fast)
6. Sealion, Russia 1943 (to take territory and delay Russia from crushing them close to border 1944.
7. Sitzkrieg, this is where Germany takes out Gibralter, all the med and attacks Russia in 1943 just to take borders so it takes a looooong time for the allies to take it back. Very boring but effective for axis to win on VPs.

Now you have your strategic goals as the AI. Because you know what you are doing you can perfectly build for it and through everything you got into your strategy. Now as the programmer really you need someone who knows these strategies for the game so you can program the AI to do it. These are the basic German strategies used in World in Flames.

The simply fact is whatever you want to accomplish with a military force is to through all of your strength at the selected objective till its taken, then do the same for the next one.

WW2 showed both sides not doing that. And I find most AI opponents dont do that. Take Africa for example. The right play was for the Axis to take Malta, place a lot of troops in Lybia, and crush the English. Instead they sent a small force to the desert that got its supply convoys shot up to hopefully accomplish their goals. You can't do everything 1/2 ass.

Japanese in the Pacific same things. They send out just enough to accomplish the mission and basically coinflip with the americans to see who wins the naval battle. Coral Sea, why 2 carriers, you knew how many the Americans had. Midway why the complex plan with 8 carriers. Put all 8 carriers in the main strike force and take the fooking island.

Give the AI a goal, stick to the plan, build for it, move on to next goal. Makes for a better AI.

(in reply to Twotribes)

Post #: 3

RE: Retarded AI - 8/25/2008 3:52:31 PM

JMass

Posts: 2364
Joined: 6/3/2006
From: Italy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: winky51

Remember though a game on this scale it is unbelievably difficult to make a good AI.�

This is the reason I asked for the pbem capability! I am waiting for the next patch to finish my mod and start a multiplayer game.

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My boardgames collection: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/collection/user/JMass?own=1&subtype=boardgame&ff=1

(in reply to winky51)

Post #: 4

RE: Retarded AI - 8/25/2008 6:26:07 PM

cpdeyoung

Posts: 5368
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: South Carolina, USA
Status: offline

In my limited set of games I have not found these problems with the AI.� It has actually played well enough to impress me.� It is operationally aggressive when it sees a chance to harass me.� It will pull back when I might do so myself, and it defends the cities quite well.� I did take Leningrad more easily than I expected too, and Moscow was not too tough, but as the game continued, the better Soviet units were very difficult to dislodge. This is play against my Germans with the AI playing the Red Army.� I find myself getting a real sense of how big Russia was, and how hard it is to campaign across the wide front.� So far the simulation has been frightening, and I have a real sense of the campaign.

I have really enjoyed the experience, and I have a lot more to try.

Chuck

(in reply to JMass)

Post #: 5

RE: Retarded AI - 8/25/2008 6:39:34 PM

winky51

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Joined: 1/18/2005
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In my games the AI was aweful letting itself get surrounded easily. I even screwed up on various occasions.

(in reply to cpdeyoung)

Post #: 6

RE: Retarded AI - 8/25/2008 8:31:15 PM

James Ward

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From: Baltimore, Maryland, USA
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The Russian AI can definately use some help. Once you breakthrough and get past the Smolensk/Kiev/Leningrad line it pretty much abandons the cities.
I think it build to many air units, I've seen it with as many as 6 air armies in 1942. That's a lot of infantry corps!

(in reply to winky51)

Post #: 7

RE: Retarded AI - 8/26/2008 5:00:45 AM

Maddoc06

Posts: 58
Joined: 8/9/2008
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I must say that I advanced on Istanbul with Greek Troops and the Turks evacuated it. And did not defend it.

Added a VP in Istanbul and the Turks evacuated it again!

(in reply to James Ward)

Post #: 8

RE: Retarded AI - 8/26/2008 7:37:57 PM

mavraamides

Posts: 447
Joined: 4/1/2005
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Yeah the AI is weak.

With France I was able to beat Germany even though my forces were vastly inferior by simply cutting off units, surrounding them and destroying them while avoiding the same.

The AI doesn't seem to understand supply at all and so it charges after cities with no regard for securing supply lines and is easily cut off.

Also, it often leaves cities completely undefended when even a single level 1 inf division would have been able to hold out till re-enforcements arrive.

(in reply to Maddoc06)

Post #: 9

RE: Retarded AI - 9/26/2008 1:29:48 AM

Redmarkus5

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GordianKnot - your BB Iowa image makes me long for the days of table top wargames. When will somebody build a PC wargame that looks as good and plays half as good as even a 20 years old solitaire table top game? What was the name of that excellent solitaire game set in the Pacific? Carrier? Just a simple set of rules and some dummy counters kept the human player guessing right up to the last moment.

Sigh...

(in reply to mavraamides)

Post #: 10

RE: Retarded AI - 9/26/2008 3:28:56 AM

GJK

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Joined: 7/17/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4

GordianKnot - your BB Iowa image makes me long for the days of table top wargames. When will somebody build a PC wargame that looks as good and plays half as good as even a 20 years old solitaire table top game? What was the name of that excellent solitaire game set in the Pacific? Carrier? Just a simple set of rules and some dummy counters kept the human player guessing right up to the last moment.

Sigh...

Very fun game indeed!

(in reply to Redmarkus5)

Post #: 11

RE: Retarded AI - 9/26/2008 3:44:53 AM

geozero

Posts: 1886
Joined: 5/22/2002
From: Southern California, U.S.A.
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I also liked 7th Fleet, though that was not set in WW2 era... still a fun game, and remember vividly playing all night during college.

to OP...the issue with AI is that usually it means scripted routines that simply react, but don't really "think". Nothing beats playing a real human...

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(in reply to GJK)

Post #: 12

RE: Retarded AI - 11/2/2008 10:26:44 PM

bigdogcurt

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/25/2008
Status: offline

After playing just several games, I have found that playing with Axis set at very hard, Allis at Very Easy, and AI thread hihest priority.....with very little difficulty playing Axis I can conquer the map (including USA) by game end. I'm going to try playing Allies at highest diffulty, but I am hoping they do something to make this a bit more challenging. The AI abanons cities....I even have seen them simply abandon Stalingrad the moment an army approached. In the several games I have played I have only seen the Allies AI attempt a European mainland invasion just one time with a force that could not overwelm a level 2 infantry division garrisoned in southwest France!

It seems there should be some requirements to keep a certain force level on a front. After conquering Poland I can pull every corp to the western front without consequence and then after conquering France I can pull everything east.

It takes the AI nearly 3 years to beat the Italian forces in North Africa despite an apparent 15 or 20 to 1 superiority. It seems to want to surround cities but rarely attack. Usually just as the Allies AI takes North Africa, I can sweep through with powerful armoured corps through Turkey (Russia conquered). Since there seems to be zero threat of Italy or france being invaded I can simply focus all the German effort into level 5 armoured corps wherever I want to attack and forget about the rest of the map. I don't bother even sending replacements or upgrading German air armies after the initial Russian breakthrough. The AI is so weak you can conquer the map without the use of any Axis airpower. Landings are rarely opposed and AI seapower is easy to beat too.

Can't the developers do something? I know designing AIs is a difficult thing, but this one is simply pathetic.

(in reply to geozero)

Post #: 13

RE: Retarded AI - 11/3/2008 10:03:13 AM

doomtrader