Newbie questions on Harpoon

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Newbie questions on Harpoon - 8/27/2008 2:50:38 AM

eliliang

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline

I just bought and downloaded Larry Bond's Harpoon - Commander's Edition and Harpoon 3 Advanced Naval Warfare because Matrix Games had a two-pack special and the set and after I installed them and the updates, I realized I may have made a mistake.

The reason I got both is because after reading the descriptions, and after seeing the 2-pack, I came to the conclusion that the HCE needed the H3ANW in order to work. After I installed both and tried them out, I see the UI is completely different, which leads me to question the necessity of H3ANW if you have HCE.

Questions:

1. Is H3ANW needed in order for HCE to work?

2. Will HCE work fine if I delete H3ANW from my system?

3. Do I need to read the manual for H3ANW before reading the manual for HCE, or is the manual for HCE complete and self-contained?

4. If I have HCE, is there any reason to ever run H3ANW? I mean, is HCE just an upgrade for H3ANW?

5. Do the databases and scenarios which I see on sites like harpgamer.com work interchangeably on both HCE and H3ANW?

Thanks much!

Post #: 1

RE: Newbie questions on Harpoon - 8/27/2008 3:03:09 AM

Warhorse64

Posts: 154
Joined: 12/9/2007
Status: offline

HCE and H3ANW are completely independent treatments of modern tactical naval combat. There is no need to refer to either in any way when using the other, including having it on your hard drive. The db's and scenarios are specific to one game or the other, and should be labeled as such. All that said, they are both descended from the Harpoon paper rules and, as noted, both cover the same subject. As such, much of the background and resource material, such as tactical discussions, will be almost equally applicable to either game. Hope this helps ...

(in reply to eliliang)

Post #: 2

RE: Newbie questions on Harpoon - 8/27/2008 3:03:10 AM

TonyE

Posts: 1551
Joined: 5/23/2006
From: MN, USA
Status: offline

1. H3ANW is not needed for HCE to work, and HCE is not needed for H3ANW to work.

2. Yes, HCE will work fine if you delete H3ANW

3. The manual for HCE is self-contained. The H3ANW manual has some more useful tactics and systems explanation but it does not expand upon the game mechanics much more than the HCE manual. I wouldn't go so far as to say the HCE manual is complete lest anyone get ideas otherwise. It could use quite a bit of expansion and updating to encompass recent changes to the game (that also said the manual as it stands will get you 90% of the way there or more).

4. HCE and H3ANW are completely separate code bases and neither is an upgrade of the other. They fill different niches and each one pleases a set of players (and some players can't live without either one). H3ANW is your only choice for multiplayer Harpoon for instance. Try them both out, you may find you like them both just as well.

5. At HarpGamer you'll see a H3/ANW section separate from the HC(E) section. Each section contains downloads that pertain to one game or the other. Scenarios, database and such are not interchangeable between the games (see the bit about completely different games/codebases).

So both games are based on the Harpoon paper rules but they are very different in character and broadly different in use.

_____________________________

Sincerely,
Tony Eischens
Harpoon (HC, HCE, HUCE, Classic) programmer
HarpGamer.com Co-Owner

(in reply to eliliang)

Post #: 3

RE: Newbie questions on Harpoon - 8/27/2008 3:14:24 AM

eliliang

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/27/2008
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So if I am understanding correctly, "Harpoon Classic"�in the�harpgaming's download section�are for�HCE-related files, and the "Harpoon 2/3/ANW" is H3ANW and neither set of�downloads will work on the other game?

I notice on harpgaming that there are a lot more files under "Harpoon Classic" than under "Harpoon 2/3/ANW". For example, "Harpoon 2/3/ANW" only has 5 scenario files. Is this a reflection of the relative popularity of the older H3ANW compared to HCE?

Stoopid question: Why is HCE called "Harpoon Classic" when it came after H3ANW? Is it based on an earlier codebase or something?

< Message edited by tyroneslothrop -- 8/27/2008 3:16:03 AM >

(in reply to TonyE)

Post #: 4

RE: Newbie questions on Harpoon - 8/27/2008 3:24:06 AM

TonyE

Posts: 1551
Joined: 5/23/2006
From: MN, USA
Status: offline

True, HCE was originally called HCCE (Harpoon Classic Commander's Edition) but someone axed the Classic and it became HCE. True that neither set will work on the other game.

Harpgamer caters more to HCE than H3 hence the relative distribution of files. There are tons of H3 files out there, we just don't have a monopoly on them at HG.

HCE is indeed based on an earlier codebase of the original computer Harpoon of the late 80s (which became Harpoon Classic, then HC97, HC2002, HC Gold, now HCE). H3ANW is based on the Harpoon 2 codebase of the early 90s (which later became H3 and now ANW).

_____________________________

Sincerely,
Tony Eischens
Harpoon (HC, HCE, HUCE, Classic) programmer
HarpGamer.com Co-Owner

(in reply to eliliang)

Post #: 5

Harpoon 3 [ANW] scenarios for the PlayersDB - 8/27/2008 4:48:50 AM

hermanhum

Posts: 2209
Joined: 9/21/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tyroneslothrop

I notice on harpgaming that there are a lot more files under "Harpoon Classic" than under "Harpoon 2/3/ANW". For example, "Harpoon 2/3/ANW" only has 5 scenario files. Is this a reflection of the relative popularity of the older H3ANW compared to HCE?

Here are a few hundred scenarios for you. Harpoon ANW users can get the:
Complete Harpoon ANW Library

You can also get additional HCE/H3 scenarios on:

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/FilesOfScenShare/

http://www.HarPlonkHQ.com

_____________________________

(in reply to eliliang)

Post #: 6

RE: Harpoon 3 [ANW] scenarios for the PlayersDB - 8/27/2008 9:11:11 PM

PongoDeMer

Posts: 81
Joined: 8/22/2008
Status: offline

Tyroneslothrop

I have both games as well. Harpoon Commander's Edition (H.C.E.) could be described as the "civvy" version of the game. While extremely detailed, it is relatively easy to get into, with acceptable graphics and a manageable learning curve. I would recommend that you play this first.

Only when you are thoroughly familiar with H.C.E will you be ready to move on to Harpoon 3 Advanced Naval Warfare. (H3A.N.W.) The military version of the game. The graphics are rudimentary, depicting (I believe) only what someone on board a warship would see on the threat board. The simulation however contains an extra layer of detail, and gives more opportunities to micro-manage. Whether this makes it a better product or not is a moot point. As an overall commander, I very much doubt that you would (for example) be making decisions as to which kind of sonarbuoy to use! The learning curve is extremely steep and the game requires a lot of work in order to achieve a basic level of competence.

Both versions of the game are quite merciless and the artificial intelligence will punish any mistakes that you make. Before discovering Harpoon I never knew that you could get quite so spooked by the appearance of a red symbol!

I hope this has been of some help.

PongoDeMer

(in reply to hermanhum)

Post #: 7

RE: Harpoon 3 [ANW] scenarios for the PlayersDB - 8/28/2008 3:57:08 PM

CV32

Posts: 1046
Joined: 5/15/2006
From: The Rock, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PongoDeMer
Only when�you are thoroughly familiar with H.C.E will you be ready to move on to Harpoon 3�Advanced Naval Warfare. (H3A.N.W.)� The military version of the game ...

I think it would be an error to suggest that ANW is the follow on from HCE. They are two very different games, and actually HCE is the newer product. Nor is H3ANW the 'military version'; that would actually be Harpoon 3 Pro.

Don't get me wrong, though. If you can't get enough of Harpoon, you should definitely buy both games. (There's a paper rules version too, btw, which also has a large following).

_____________________________

Brad Leyte
HC3 development group member for HCE
Author of HCDB official database for HCE
Harpgamer.com Co-Owner

(in reply to PongoDeMer)

Post #: 8

RE: Harpoon 3 [ANW] scenarios for the PlayersDB - 8/29/2008 2:08:32 AM

mack2

Posts: 243
Joined: 6/29/2007
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I think you need to tread more softy there Pongo.

Implying that people who prefer HCE are playing the "easy mode" version of the game is not something people will take lightly.

(in reply to CV32)

Post #: 9

RE: Harpoon 3 [ANW] scenarios for the PlayersDB - 8/29/2008 12:22:59 PM

CV32

Posts: 1046
Joined: 5/15/2006
From: The Rock, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mack2
I think you need to tread more softy there Pongo.
Implying that people who prefer HCE are playing the "easy mode" version of the game is not something people will take lightly.

Stirring the pot, are we, mack2?

Pongo, we're pretty relaxed and happy people around here. Just making sure everyone knows these are very different games, and we do not want to mix them up.