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&%¤(%&¤%&/%¤&¤"(/=&=/¤(?& - 9/2/2008 4:49:27 AM   
Japan


Posts: 754
Joined: 10/26/2007
From: Heaven on Earth (Scandinavia of course)
Status: offline 		GRR.


I had 3 Carrier Groups of total 15 Ships in Each, It was 220 Carrier pLanes in Each, we are 7 Jan 1943.
Also have a CS in each with some 25 ALF on Navel Search at 90%


I meat with the Allied Carriers, who i know was comming and had seen in advanse, I had Put the Carriers up and was waiting on him...



But, my planes did not lunch, and all of his did, so the entire Jap Carrier Force in the battle was Destroyd.
The 3rd Carrier Group did not get attacked, and did not attack either.


Why is this, and here is the results:




Day Air attack on TF at 102,49

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 56

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 77
F6F-3 Hellcat x 26
SBD Dauntless x 164
TBF Avenger x 81

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 40 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 29 destroyed, 18 damaged
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged
SBD Dauntless: 1 destroyed, 15 damaged
TBF Avenger: 1 destroyed, 16 damaged

Japanese Ships
CL Agano, Bomb hits 3, on fire
CV Shokaku, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CV Hiryu, Bomb hits 17, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CV Soryu, Bomb hits 17, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CA Kako
CA Haguro

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
8 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
2 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
8 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
7 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
2 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
8 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
8 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
2 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
5 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
5 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
3 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
8 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
8 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
3 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 102,49

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 7

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 15
SBD Dauntless x 34
TBF Avenger x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 1 damaged
SBD Dauntless: 4 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Shokaku, Bomb hits 11, on fire, heavy damage
CL Agano, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
8 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
2 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 104,50

Japanese aircraft
D3A Val x 75
A6M3a Zero x 8

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 38
F6F-3 Hellcat x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val: 48 destroyed
A6M3a Zero: 8 destroyed


Allied Ships
BB North Carolina, Bomb hits 2
CV Essex, Bomb hits 1
CV Saratoga, Bomb hits 2, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
3 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
7 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
5 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
6 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Cold Bay , at 105,36

Japanese aircraft
H8K Emily x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
H8K Emily: 1 damaged

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kure 7th SNLF, at 24,6


Allied aircraft
CW-22 Falcon x 1


No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 105,48

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 56

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 61
F6F-3 Hellcat x 21
SBD Dauntless x 164
TBF Avenger x 76

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 27 destroyed, 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 38 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 6 destroyed, 7 damaged
SBD Dauntless: 3 destroyed, 22 damaged
TBF Avenger: 4 destroyed, 11 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Zuikaku, Bomb hits 18, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
CV Akagi, Bomb hits 19, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
CV Kaga, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CA Mogami
DD Ikazuchi, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CA Mikuma

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
7 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
2 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
5 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
1 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
7 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
1 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
7 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
7 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
1 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
2 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
1 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
5 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
7 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
3 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
3 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 104,50

Japanese aircraft
D3A Val x 5
A6M3a Zero x 8

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 22
F6F-3 Hellcat x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val: 5 destroyed
A6M3a Zero: 6 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 1 damaged


_____________________________

AAR VIDEO
THE FIRST YEAR + THE SECOND YEAR
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2133035&mpage=1&key=&
Post #: 1
RE: &%¤(%&¤%&/%¤&¤"(/=&=/¤(?& - 9/2/2008 4:53:35 AM   
deanver


Posts: 26
Joined: 8/16/2008
Status: offline 		You spelled "against" wrong in your sig pic.




_____________________________



Thanks Elouda for the sig pic.

"Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war."
Julius Caesar

(in reply to Japan)
Post #: 2
RE: &%¤(%&¤%&/%¤&¤"(/=&=/¤(?& - 9/2/2008 7:02:18 AM   
herwin

 

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline 		You ran into GG's combat model.

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to Japan)
Post #: 3
RE: &%¤(%&¤%&/%¤&¤"(/=&=/¤(?& - 9/2/2008 7:10:02 AM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline 		Similar to Midway!!

You only had 50 Zekes on CAP?

_____________________________

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

(in reply to herwin)
Post #: 4
RE: &%¤(%&¤%&/%¤&¤"(/=&=/¤(?& - 9/2/2008 8:40:46 AM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		If 3rd CG was in range could be the TF commanders ability(or lack of it), Weather, or just the game...

(in reply to JeffroK)
Post #: 5
RE: &%¤(%&¤%&/%¤&¤"(/=&=/¤(?& - 9/2/2008 12:27:14 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Japan

GRR.


I had 3 Carrier Groups of total 15 Ships in Each, It was 220 Carrier pLanes in Each, we are 7 Jan 1943.
Also have a CS in each with some 25 ALF on Navel Search at 90%


I meat with the Allied Carriers, who i know was comming and had seen in advanse, I had Put the Carriers up and was waiting on him...



But, my planes did not lunch, and all of his did, so the entire Jap Carrier Force in the battle was Destroyd.
The 3rd Carrier Group did not get attacked, and did not attack either.


Why is this, and here is the results:




Day Air attack on TF at 102,49

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 56

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 77
F6F-3 Hellcat x 26
SBD Dauntless x 164
TBF Avenger x 81

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 40 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 29 destroyed, 18 damaged
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged
SBD Dauntless: 1 destroyed, 15 damaged
TBF Avenger: 1 destroyed, 16 damaged

Japanese Ships
CL Agano, Bomb hits 3, on fire
CV Shokaku, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CV Hiryu, Bomb hits 17, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CV Soryu, Bomb hits 17, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CA Kako
CA Haguro

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
8 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
2 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
8 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
7 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
2 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
8 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
8 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
2 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
5 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
5 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
3 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
8 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
8 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
3 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 102,49

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 7

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 15
SBD Dauntless x 34
TBF Avenger x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 1 damaged
SBD Dauntless: 4 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Shokaku, Bomb hits 11, on fire, heavy damage
CL Agano, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
8 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
2 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 104,50

Japanese aircraft
D3A Val x 75
A6M3a Zero x 8

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 38
F6F-3 Hellcat x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val: 48 destroyed
A6M3a Zero: 8 destroyed


Allied Ships
BB North Carolina, Bomb hits 2
CV Essex, Bomb hits 1
CV Saratoga, Bomb hits 2, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
3 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
7 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
5 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
6 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Cold Bay , at 105,36

Japanese aircraft
H8K Emily x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
H8K Emily: 1 damaged

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kure 7th SNLF, at 24,6


Allied aircraft
CW-22 Falcon x 1


No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 105,48

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 56

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 61
F6F-3 Hellcat x 21
SBD Dauntless x 164
TBF Avenger x 76

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 27 destroyed, 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 38 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 6 destroyed, 7 damaged
SBD Dauntless: 3 destroyed, 22 damaged
TBF Avenger: 4 destroyed, 11 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Zuikaku, Bomb hits 18, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
CV Akagi, Bomb hits 19, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
CV Kaga, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CA Mogami
DD Ikazuchi, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CA Mikuma

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
7 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
2 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
5 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
1 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
7 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
1 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
7 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
7 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
1 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
2 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
1 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
5 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
7 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
3 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
3 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBF Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 104,50

Japanese aircraft
D3A Val x 5
A6M3a Zero x 8

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 22
F6F-3 Hellcat x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val: 5 destroyed
A6M3a Zero: 6 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 1 damaged




what do you expect with a Cap of 56 Zeroes? And where did the 70+ Vals come from?

< Message edited by castor troy -- 9/2/2008 12:28:20 PM >

_____________________________


(in reply to Japan)
Post #: 6
RE: &%¤(%&¤%&/%¤&¤"(/=&=/¤(?& - 9/2/2008 12:39:32 PM   
Elouda

 

Posts: 183
Joined: 2/16/2008
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline 		Well, it looks like you did launch -some- sort of strike...but without any escorts it got cut up. Were all these CVTFs in the same hex? Hard to believe the CAP being that weak if that was the case.

_____________________________


(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 7
RE: &%¤(%&¤%&/%¤&¤"(/=&=/¤(?& - 9/2/2008 2:57:44 PM   
Japan


Posts: 754
Joined: 10/26/2007
From: Heaven on Earth (Scandinavia of course)
Status: offline 		Well, thats the thing,    the Combat Patrol should been 81 Zeros and 84 Zeros,  was arround half.

And there was no Jap Attack of Size.

Thay attacked with 3% of the planes instead of all when actualy attacking.

And also, all was Rested, Repaired, Experienced ect ect...

< Message edited by Japan -- 9/2/2008 2:58:17 PM >

_____________________________

AAR VIDEO
THE FIRST YEAR + THE SECOND YEAR
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2133035&mpage=1&key=&

(in reply to Elouda)
Post #: 8
RE: &%¤(%&¤%&/%¤&¤"(/=&=/¤(?& - 9/2/2008 3:01:07 PM   
Japan


Posts: 754
Joined: 10/26/2007
From: Heaven on Earth (Scandinavia of course)
Status: offline 		Maby ...: 

We operated our carriers on the edge of the bad weather zone. So our carriers where in thunderstormshex, his carriers coming from south where in Rain hex.

_____________________________

AAR VIDEO
THE FIRST YEAR + THE SECOND YEAR
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2133035&mpage=1&key=&

(in reply to Japan)
Post #: 9
RE: &%¤(%&¤%&/%¤&¤"(/=&=/¤(?& - 9/2/2008 3:02:43 PM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, Several questions.  Bomber groups were set to Naval Attack.  You had search missions assigned.  What was fighter settings (escort/CAP percentage)  There are penalties for having too many CV in a single TF.  Also TF commander air rating impact result.  However all this considered you should have had a counter strike unless groups were set to mission other then Naval attack.
Do you have saves before you entered orders for that turn?

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Japan)
Post #: 10
RE: &%¤(%&¤%&/%¤&¤"(/=&=/¤(?& - 9/2/2008 5:51:03 PM   
tocaff


Posts: 4781
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline 		What altitude settings for the Vals & Kates?  This could also effect co ordination of attacks.

_____________________________

Todd

I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2080768

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 11
RE: &%¤(%&¤%&/%¤&¤"(/=&=/¤(?& - 9/2/2008 6:43:36 PM   
BPRE

 

Posts: 624
Joined: 10/16/2000
From: Stockholm,Sweden
Status: offline 		Hi,

You didn't forget any Target setting on the groups after attacking a land target? This would at least affect the fighters so they would not join in an attack against ships.

/BPRE

(in reply to tocaff)
Post #: 12
RE: &%¤(%&¤%&/%¤&¤"(/=&=/¤(?& - 9/2/2008 9:04:05 PM   
Japan


Posts: 754
Joined: 10/26/2007
From: Heaven on Earth (Scandinavia of course)
Status: offline 		Group 1
CARRIER PLANES  221
(3 Carriers)
Total Ships 15
 
Carrier Leder 65+ Ledership (Rank Above R Admiral)(Agressive)
Avverage Fighter Skill 92  -  CAP 60%
Avverage Kate Skill 90    - Navel Attack 16000 Ft
Avverage Val Skill 93       - Navel Attack 10000 Ft
CS With 24 ALF on 90% Navel Search 5000 Ft


Group 2
CARRIER BASED PLANES  198
(3 Carriers)
Total Ships 15

Carrier Leder 65+ Ledership (Rank Above R Admiral)(Agressive)
Avverage Fighter Skill 88 - CAP 50%
Avverage Kate Skill 86    - Navel Attack 17000 Ft
Avverage Val Skill 81     - Navel Attack 11000 Ft
CS With 27 ALF on 90% Navel Search 4000 Ft



Additionaly information:

2 AV Fleets with total 40 ALF & JAKE was 1 Hex Closer then Carriers, and Both had All Search Planes on 90% Navel Search 4000Ft
1 Submarines with Scout Planes 2 Hexes from Enamy Carrier Groups
18 Emmelys within Recon Range - Navel Search 90% at 4000 Ft
Tunderstorm in Japanese Sea Hexes
Rain in Allied Sea Hexes













< Message edited by Japan -- 9/2/2008 9:09:06 PM >

_____________________________

AAR VIDEO
THE FIRST YEAR + THE SECOND YEAR
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2133035&mpage=1&key=&

(in reply to BPRE)
Post #: 13
RE: &%¤(%&¤%&/%¤&¤"(/=&=/¤(?& - 9/2/2008 9:38:10 PM   
Lecivius


Posts: 4845
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: offline 		"Both had All Search Planes on 90% "

Is it possible that your attack aircraft were set up this way?  Just trying to help.

(in reply to Japan)
Post #: 14
RE: &%¤(%&¤%&/%¤&¤"(/=&=/¤(?& - 9/2/2008 9:44:57 PM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BPRE

Hi,

You didn't forget any Target setting on the groups after attacking a land target? This would at least affect the fighters so they would not join in an attack against ships.

/BPRE



This is most likely your problem. Your fighters were waiting to attack some specified land target and were sitting on the deck. Your strike aircraft usually wont fly unless escort to CAP ratio is something like 1:3 minimum, something like that. Look at your fighters mission and target.

(in reply to BPRE)
Post #: 15
RE: &%¤(%&¤%&/%¤&¤"(/=&=/¤(?& - 9/2/2008 10:16:50 PM   
eloso


Posts: 335
Joined: 5/28/2006
From: The Greater Chicagoland Area, USA
Status: offline 		I've noticed this on bases and it probably works the same at sea. If you have the cloud settings on you'll see it during the phases where sometimes there is a storm image over the base. The aircraft at that base or in that sea hex will not launch sorties but can and will be attacked. I've even seen this happen when the forecast was overcast. It is possible that the US CV fleet had clear weather for the launch but you did not. Your CAP should still fly.

(in reply to Yamato hugger)
Post #: 16
RE: &%¤(%&¤%&/%¤&¤"(/=&=/¤(?& - 9/2/2008 10:24:49 PM   
eloso


Posts: 335
Joined: 5/28/2006
From: The Greater Chicagoland Area, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Japan
 
Carrier Leder 65+ Ledership (Rank Above R Admiral)(Agressive)



Another note... Leaders have more to them than just these traits. Pay closer attention to the Air Skill.

Question:

You said the date was 7 JAN 43. How did the Americans manage to get Hellcats so soon?

(in reply to Japan)
Post #: 17
RE: &%¤(%&¤%&/%¤&¤"(/=&=/¤(?& - 9/3/2008 7:37:55 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Japan

Group 1
CARRIER PLANES  221
(3 Carriers)
Total Ships 15
 
Carrier Leder 65+ Ledership (Rank Above R Admiral)(Agressive)
Avverage Fighter Skill 92  -  CAP 60%
Avverage Kate Skill 90    - Navel Attack 16000 Ft
Avverage Val Skill 93       - Navel Attack 10000 Ft
CS With 24 ALF on 90% Navel Search 5000 Ft


Group 2
CARRIER BASED PLANES  198
(3 Carriers)
Total Ships 15

Carrier Leder 65+ Ledership (Rank Above R Admiral)(Agressive)
Avverage Fighter Skill 88 - CAP 50%
Avverage Kate Skill 86    - Navel Attack 17000 Ft
Avverage Val Skill 81     - Navel Attack 11000 Ft
CS With 27 ALF on 90% Navel Search 4000 Ft



Additionaly information:

2 AV Fleets with total 40 ALF & JAKE was 1 Hex Closer then Carriers, and Both had All Search Planes on 90% Navel Search 4000Ft
1 Submarines with Scout Planes 2 Hexes from Enamy Carrier Groups
18 Emmelys within Recon Range - Navel Search 90% at 4000 Ft
Tunderstorm in Japanese Sea Hexes
Rain in Allied Sea Hexes








very easy to explain now... if you have a cloud above your carriers you can´t launch, your enemy can attack you though.

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(in reply to Japan)
Post #: 18
RE: &%¤(%&¤%&/%¤&¤"(/=&=/¤(?& - 9/3/2008 7:49:15 AM   
herwin

 

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Japan

Group 1
CARRIER PLANES  221
(3 Carriers)
Total Ships 15
 
Carrier Leder 65+ Ledership (Rank Above R Admiral)(Agressive)
Avverage Fighter Skill 92  -  CAP 60%
Avverage Kate Skill 90    - Navel Attack 16000 Ft
Avverage Val Skill 93       - Navel Attack 10000 Ft
CS With 24 ALF on 90% Navel Search 5000 Ft


Group 2
CARRIER BASED PLANES  198
(3 Carriers)
Total Ships 15

Carrier Leder 65+ Ledership (Rank Above R Admiral)(Agressive)
Avverage Fighter Skill 88 - CAP 50%
Avverage Kate Skill 86    - Navel Attack 17000 Ft
Avverage Val Skill 81     - Navel Attack 11000 Ft
CS With 27 ALF on 90% Navel Search 4000 Ft



Additionaly information:

2 AV Fleets with total 40 ALF & JAKE was 1 Hex Closer then Carriers, and Both had All Search Planes on 90% Navel Search 4000Ft
1 Submarines with Scout Planes 2 Hexes from Enamy Carrier Groups
18 Emmelys within Recon Range - Navel Search 90% at 4000 Ft
Tunderstorm in Japanese Sea Hexes
Rain in Allied Sea Hexes








very easy to explain now... if you have a cloud above your carriers you can´t launch, your enemy can attack you though.


Ah yes, that bug in the game engine. In reality, if you're socked in, any attackers can't see you either, and in any case, the advantage of CAP is dramatically increased--you can take off and land in conditions where you can't bomb accurately.

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 19
RE: &%¤(%&¤%&/%¤&¤"(/=&=/¤(?& - 9/3/2008 10:13:40 AM   
undercovergeek

 

Posts: 1526
Joined: 11/21/2006
From: UK
Status: offline 		just to quantify this - im trying to perfect the jap start up position on 7 dec - lots of trial and error, twiddle this, save, end turn, watch replay, fix, twiddle continue. For the last six turns the Pearl Harbour raid hasnt happened at all due to bad weather - cap goes up to defend against the entire Pearl aircraft force that comes to get me, but no bombing run - not sure how id feel if that happened in a PBEM!!!!

(in reply to herwin)
Post #: 20
RE: &%¤(%&¤%&/%¤&¤"(/=&=/¤(?& - 9/3/2008 12:40:00 PM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, The 2 exceptions to escort rule (won't fly without escorts) are carrier bombers and allied 4 engine bombers.  They do not require the escort check.

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to undercovergeek)
Post #: 21
RE: &%¤(%&¤%&/%¤&¤"(/=&=/¤(?& - 9/3/2008 2:54:07 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline 		&%¤(%&¤%&/%¤&¤"(/=&=/¤(?&

Wonder if that's what Nagumo said?

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(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 22
RE: &%¤(%&¤%&/%¤&¤"(/=&=/¤(?& - 9/3/2008 4:51:57 PM   
Japan


Posts: 754
Joined: 10/26/2007
From: Heaven on Earth (Scandinavia of course)
Status: offline 		Thanks for your analyze Gents.

I can verefie after checking, that ALL PLANES and all other factors i can come up with, All Planes and Ships had Proper Orders and avverage leders on 88-95 for all Air Groups, and also good Air Skill and Agression.
ALL leders involved from the Fleet Level to the Individual Aircraft was skilled and good for their position, l
All involved from the Emmely Groups to the Captains on each Destroyer.


I also did some testing, and are personaly now convinsed that  OSO's Analyse is correct,  thanks for the help all.

< Message edited by Japan -- 9/3/2008 5:13:46 PM >

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(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 23
RE: &%¤(%&¤%&/%¤&¤"(/=&=/¤(?& - 9/3/2008 5:13:00 PM   
mdiehl

 

Posts: 5998
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline 		I don't see why you're complaining. Your CAP was far more effective than any IJN CAP could have been at the time.

_____________________________

Show me a fellow who rejects statistical analysis a priori and I'll show you a fellow who has no knowledge of statistics.

Didn't we have this conversation already?

(in reply to Japan)
Post #: 24
RE: &%¤(%&¤%&/%¤&¤"(/=&=/¤(?& - 9/3/2008 5:14:00 PM   
Japan


Posts: 754
Joined: 10/26/2007
From: Heaven on Earth (Scandinavia of course)
Status: offline 		didnt mean to do that, i was simply investigating.

Game goes on, but i wanted to learn what caused it.

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(in reply to mdiehl)
Post #: 25
RE: &%¤(%&¤%&/%¤&¤"(/=&=/¤(?& - 9/3/2008 5:55:17 PM   
AirGriff


Posts: 701
Joined: 10/11/2004
Status: offline 		I am the lucky fellow that sank Japan's carriers. It seems to me I was quite lucky in that his carriers were in two separate TF's and they were separated by 2 or 3 hexes. My carriers were all in one hex and got the jump on him and overwhelmed the first set of carriers in the morning phase. His other carriers launched the ill fated counter strike. In the afternoon phase, my carriers did a repeat performance on the remaining three carriers, and they never got off much of a retaliation, though his CAP did a much better job of chewing up my fighters. I was pleasantly surprised by the lack of an effective counterstrike, but the above discussion seems to shed light on that. I deliberately stayed out of that cold temperate zone specifically because of the weather issue once I suspected I was falling into a trap. He apparently was stalking my carriers out there. I suspected it for a variety of reasons. One of my SBD's spotted one of his subs the day before, and that of course tipped him off of my general location, which was somewhat east of where the battle was fought while I was en route to go help the Aleutians in a big offensive of his. Knowing this, and knowing he knew or suspected all this, I reversed direction to try and throw him off the scent. I reversed right into him, and the rest is newly revamped history. Go figure.

Someone asked about the Hellcats showing up that early. The Essex joined my carriers just 2 days prior to the fight--very lucky there. She comes stocked with Hellcats, and that particular squadron I believe really gave me an edge against the CAP. The Wildcats suffered heavily. His CAP did very little against my attack aircraft, though he had a bit more success on my second raid.

All this said, don't feel too sorry for Japan. You, my friend, have been kicking me all over the map at your leisure the whole bloody game, so it's about time I had something go my way

(in reply to Japan)
Post #: 26
RE: &%¤(%&¤%&/%¤&¤"(/=&=/¤(?& - 9/3/2008 6:25:54 PM   
Japan


Posts: 754
Joined: 10/26/2007
From: Heaven on Earth (Scandinavia of course)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AirGriff

All this said, don't feel too sorry for Japan. You, my friend, have been kicking me all over the map at your leisure the whole bloody game, so it's about time I had something go my way




HeHe Yep.

I have no complaints at all, just wanted to understand the moddel for this weather thing...


Now, it will be interesting to see how the development goes, Japan still has Hundreds of Dedicated and Elite Pilots Ready to make that other fellow die for his country... HeHe, See you on the Battlefield my freind.




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(in reply to AirGriff)
Post #: 27
RE: &%¤(%&¤%&/%¤&¤"(/=&=/¤(?& - 9/3/2008 7:50:33 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		It is early 1944 in my game as the Allies. I sent all my carriers to cover my invasion of the PI and he finally sent his carriers out for a fight. At this point the IJN had not lost a carrier and possesed all of the original expert pilots. My force was loaded with hellcats, helldivers and avengers and I was sure I could whup him big time. I set a beautiful trap and our carriers ended up squared off two hexes from each other. Well, neither carrier group launched a single strike at the other carrier force. His planes did attack my transport group 4 hexes away with CVEs as cover but it was a weak attack and poorly escorted. He damaged a CVE and I shot down about 100 planes. That was it. Next day I guessed one way and he skeddadled the other and my chance to sink his carriers was gone. It was obviously the weather and can happen. Truthfully, this sort of event is what makes the game fun. If I had smashed his carriers, the game would have been closer to over and less fun. It is now 4/44 and he has most of his fleet intact. I will get him soon.....

_____________________________

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(in reply to Japan)
Post #: 28
RE: &%¤(%&¤%&/%¤&¤"(/=&=/¤(?& - 9/3/2008 9:03:44 PM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline 		Same thing happen to me.  Midway all over again only at Tarawa.

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 29
RE: &%¤(%&¤%&/%¤&¤"(/=&=/¤(?& - 9/4/2008 2:14:38 AM   
Local Yokel


Posts: 1494
Joined: 2/4/2007
From: Somerset, U.K.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AirGriff

...his carriers were in two separate TF's and they were separated by 2 or 3 hexes. My carriers were all in one hex and got the jump on him and overwhelmed the first set of carriers in the morning phase.



Seems to me separation of the Japanese carrier TF's is likely to have made a big difference. Would be interested to know the location and composition of the 3rd carrier TF - Hiyo + Junyo + CVL's? Also, was any proportion of the Japanese VT or VB flying search to supplement the floatplanes' efforts?

I infer that the TF with 198 a/c comprised Shokaku (28 x VF), Hiryu (23 x VF) and Soryu (23 x VF) yields 74 x VF max. Then: 50% CAP = 37 x VF max.

In turn, this implies that the TF with 221 a/c comprised Akagi, Kaga + Zuikaku (28 x VF apiece) yields 84 x VF max. Giving: 60% CAP = 50 x VF max.

Yet each TF put up CAP of 56 x VF. Did one/both receive additional CAP from CV TF 3? An escort of only 8 VF for the Japanese strike suggests a higher proportion of VF assigned CAP duties than 50-60%.

But, apart from the weather, dispersion and resulting lack of mutual support appears to me to have been the real killer.

< Message edited by Local Yokel -- 9/4/2008 2:44:29 AM >

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(in reply to AirGriff)
Post #: 30
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