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RE: OT - WWII quiz - 8/26/2008 10:49:14 AM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ohio Jones

quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

The HMS Prince of Wales carried Churchill to Newfoundland to meet Roosevelt, I believe.

Correct. Its tragic end off Indonesia (IIRC) would put the final nail in the coffin for BB actions without air cover. Should be an interesting counter description in MWF.

Warspite 1

This is the draft for the counter - still needs some work but this is the outline

4590 Prince of Wales
.B Engine(s) output: 125,000 hp
.B Top Speed: 29.5 knots
.B Main armament: 10 x 14-inch (356mm), 16 x 5.25-inch (133mm) DP guns.
.B Displacement (Full Load): 40,990 tons
.B Thickest armour: 15-inches (belt)
.P The five King George V battleships (KGV`s) were the penultimate class of
battleship built for the Royal Navy (RN). The Second World War was to show that
battleships were simply too costly and too vulnerable to attack from the air or
by submarine and by the middle of World War II, the aircraft carrier had
overtaken the battleship as the primary ship of the fleet.
.P The lead ship, King George V was completed in late 1940. As the latest RN
battleship why did she seemingly not compare in main armament with the Bismarck
or the North Carolina classes? The reason was that the KGV`s were designed in
line with the 1935 Naval Limitation Treaty. When Japan subsequently failed to
ratify the treaty, the first two ships were already being built with 14-inch
main armament and this could not be changed without severely delaying their
introduction. However to guard against possible non-ratification of the treaty,
the KGV`s were designed to withstand 16-inch shells and so in many respects were
better protected than their contemporaries.
.P In addition, the 14-inch guns were not necessarily at a disadvantage compared
with the eight 15-inch guns that the Bismarcks for example offered. The KGV`s
shells could still penetrate most armour. Their ten guns could fire larger
salvoes - ten shells against Bismarck`s eight - and as a result, increase their
hit probability. The potential downside was their lower range, particularly in
clear weather.
.P Overall, the KGV`s were well designed ships that gave good service in action
against the enemy, although the 14-inch gun could be prone to mechanical
problems on occasion. Their anti-aircraft (AA) weaponry was adequate and was
increased significantly as the war progressed. The one loss suffered by the
class was that of the Prince of Wales. This loss made perfectly clear that even
the most modern battleship was at a disadvantage against a concerted attack by
aircraft.
.P In August 1940, whilst fitting out, Prince of Wales was hit by bombs during
an air raid on Liverpool and this delayed her completion. She was finally
completed in March 1941.
.P In May, Prince of Wales - still with many civilian shipyard workers aboard as
she had yet to complete her work up - joined the battlecruiser Hood to try and
intercept the German battleship Bismarck and her heavy cruiser escort Prinz
Eugen. The German ships were attempting to break out into the North Atlantic but
had been spotted in the Denmark Strait by the cruisers Suffolk and Norfolk. On
the 24th May, the Hood and Prince of Wales engaged the German ships. Tragically,
a shell penetrated the Hood`s magazine and she blew up taking all but 3 of her
crew of over 1400 men to the bottom. Following the sinking, Prince of Wales
disengaged having received seven hits. However she had scored three hits on
Bismarck, one of which hit a forward fuel tank which forced the Bismarck to head
for France for repairs. Prince of Wales returned to port for repairs and so left
the destruction of the Bismarck to other ships of the Home Fleet, including her
sister ship King George V (see HMS Hood and HMS KGV for more detail).
.P After completion of repairs in August, Prince of Wales carried Winston
Churchill across the Atlantic for a high level meeting with the American
President Roosevelt, during which the Atlantic Charter was signed. Upon her
return to the UK, Prince of Wales was sent for a refit [to upgrade her radar ?]
equipment. Then in September, she was deployed in the Mediterranean on convoy
escort where she assisted a Malta relief convoy - Operation Halberd - for the
first and only time (see HMS ? ).
.P She was back in the UK by the beginning of October. Due to the worsening
outlook in the Far East, and the increasing likelihood that Japan would enter
the war, an argument had been taking place between the Admiralty and the Prime
Minister about the naval contribution in this region. The Admiralty wanted a
steady build up of a Far East Fleet based in Colombo as ships became available.
Winston Churchill wanted a small well armed force to go immediately to
Singapore. With the situation continuing to deteriorate, the Prime Minister won
the argument and Force Z - containing just the Prince of Wales and the old
battlecruiser Repulse - was sent to Singapore, arriving on 2nd December. The
hope was that this Force would act as a deterrent to any Japanese aggression.
It was meant to contain the new aircraft carrier Indomitable but she had run
aground off Jamaica during her work-up trials and at the time Force Z left port
for the last time, she was still on her way to the Far East. This left the Force
wholly dependent upon land based air support should the Japanese decide on war.
The problem was that not only were the RAF numbers in Malaya less than that
considered necessary to defend the colony, but the aircraft that were there were
distinctly second rate. The British hoped to be able to increase the size of
Force Z with the heavy cruisers HMAS Sydney and Exeter. However, Exeter was too
far away on convoy duty to reach Singapore in time and Sydney had been sunk
during an engagement with the German raider Kormoran. The RN did have three
D-class light cruisers at Singapore but there was no question of using these
elderly ships. The only other ship at Singapore was the modern light cruiser
Mauritius but she was under-going refit and would not be ready for some time.
When the Japanese entered the war on 7th December, the British colonies of
Malaya and Singapore were amongst the first targets. The RAF numbers were soon
depleted further as the Japanese overran the northern airfields in Malaya.
.P To protect their invasion fleet the Japanese had four lines of defence. The
main Japanese fleet units were involved in the Pearl Harbour operation and the
ships available to cover the invasion fleet were limited to just six heavy
cruisers as close support and the battleships Kongo and Haruna as distant cover.
Just before the outbreak of war, the Japanese had laid a minefield between
Singapore and the proposed landing beaches. They also placed a number of
submarines behind the minefield. As additional protection they had the 22nd Air
Flotilla based in Indo-China. All this, the British knew via intelligence
reports. The Commander of Force Z, Admiral Tom Phillips had a far from easy
decision to make now that the war had actually started. Doing nothing was not
really an option given the fact that the Malayan campaign was proceeding
perfectly from the Japanese viewpoint. He could stay in port and wait for
reinforcements. The problem here of course was that a Pearl Harbour type raid
could be launched that would destroy his fleet anyway. Phillips decided to
try to intercept the enemy landing fleets in northern Malaya and so the Prince
of Wales, Repulse and four destroyers, Electra, Express, Tenedos and HMAS
Vampire left Singapore and sailed to meet their fate. They sailed on a north
easterly course in order to sail around the minefield. A few hours into the
journey, a message was received from Singapore that confirmed to Phillips that
there would be no fighter cover available to the fleet on the 10th, the date
that Phillips estimated he would make contact with the enemy. Despite this,
he decided that so long as he could maintain the element of surprise, then
Force Z would continue North. During the initial part of the journey the poor
weather favoured the British and kept Japanese reconnaissance aircraft from
spotting their progress. When they were finally spotted, it was a submarine, not
an aircraft that found them. I.65 was the most easterly placed of the Submarine
screen and she spotted the British ships in mid-afternoon on the 9th December.
The submarine was then able to tail the British ships and get off a report of
the sighting before losing contact in a rain squall. Though unaware of this
development, this would be a cruel blow for Phillips. Earlier that day, Japanese
reconnaissance aircraft over Singapore harbour had mistakenly reported that the
British ships were still in harbour. As a result and thinking there was no
threat, the Japanese ordered the cruiser escorts in the north back to Indo-
China. These vessels would be in the path of the British ships intended route.
However, this story would take a further twist or two yet.
.P Just before nightfall, the British were spotted by three Japanese scout
planes. Phillips was in no doubt he had been spotted and now had a hugely
important decision to make. He detatched the destroyer Tenedos - whose fuel
capacity was becoming something of a liability - and sent her south. Despite
having been spotted, Phillips did not immediately turn his five remaining ships
around. Then, from the Electra, a flare was seen in the distance. Phillips now
decided that to continue was folly and turned south. The flare was in fact from
a Japanese bomber that had come across the cruiser Chokai - just five miles from
Force Z - and was trying to lead other aircraft to her. Fortunately for the
Japanese the Chokai was unharmed but the search mission in the darkness was
called off and the Japanese cruisers retired north. However, having began to
head for home, Phillips then received a report from Singapore that the Japanese
were assaulting Kuantan, half way down the Malay Peninsula. Realising that this
could cut the British land forces in two, Phillips ordered Force Z to alter
course and head south west for Kuantan. During all of this time Phillips refused
to break radio silence and believed that air cover would be available for his
ships when he reached Kuantan. Meanwhile, once again a Japanese submarine had
sighted the British but for some reason the message that they had changed course
and were now headed for the Malay coast, did not reach Saigon. In the early
hours of December 10th, Force Z were able to reach Kuantan without incident. The
only trouble was that there were no Japanese anywhere in sight. The report
proved to be false - there was no landing.
.P The 94 aircraft of the 22nd Air Flotilla was now to make its appearance. The
Flotilla had a mixture of nine reconnaissance planes, fifty-one torpedo and
thirty-four level bombers and the first of the squadrons set out for where they
thought the British would be, early that morning. The first wave of nine bombers
came across the Tenedos and duly attacked her. None of the bombs hit and the
bombers withdrew to Saigon. Then one of the reconnaissance planes finally
spotted Force Z and the Japanese in the air were sent in to attack. The
remaining aircraft of the Flotilla would reach the battle zone in essentially
two further groups. As the first wave began their approach, Phillips
inexperience of air attack came into play. Instead of allowing each ship freedom
of manoeuvre, he ordered all ships to turn and this negated much of the initial
AA fire which caused limited damage to the enemy. The first target was Repulse.
However, she took one hit near her hangar and the fires that were started were
soon extinguished. Phillips quickly learned from his mistake and freedom of
manoeuvre was given to all ships - however radio silence had not been lifted.
Ten minutes after the first attack the second came, with Prince of Wales as the
target. Nine aircraft launched a torpedo attack that effectively ended any
chance of the battleship surviving. One incredibly unlucky torpedo hit had
damaged the propeller shaft and the damage in this most vulnerable of positions
had caused major flooding in the vital machinery spaces. The ship took on a huge
volume of water causing a serious list and reducing her speed to around 15
knots. In addition and possibly the most important blow was that much of her
power supply failed and this meant that her ability to fire her AA weapons was
much reduced.
.P The Repulse was now the target of two waves of torpedo bombers and one
squadron of level bombers. Captain Tennant managed to skilfully avoid all of
them - some reports indicate she avoided as many as nineteen torpedoes. In doing
so she was now about three miles away from Prince of Wales and she turned back
towards the crippled Flagship. There was a lull in the battle now that was to
last about 20 minutes before the next wave of Japanese arrived. Incredibly there
was still no signal from Phillips to Singapore requesting air cover and it was
left to Captain Tennant to request this. The RAF had set aside an Australian
squadron of Buffalo aircraft but they had sat idle as radio silence had been
maintained. Now, they were to take off in response to Tennant`s signal but would
not reach the target area until the battle was over.
.P In the meantime the temporary lull was over as the next Japanese attack was
about to start. This was to be another torpedo attack and Prince of Wales was
the first target. Unable to steer and with little AA defence left available, the
attack was devastating. She was struck by four torpedoes and she began to sit
ever lower in the water. Repulse was then subjected to a more concerted attack
from both directions at once which meant that she could not hope to evade all
the torpedoes fired at her. She was hit by five torpedoes, giving her no chance
of survival and she started to sink. Further level bomber attacks were made on
Prince of Wales and less than an hour after Repulse had slid beneath the waves,
the battleship also sank taking with her Admiral Phillips and her Captain John
Leech. The Prince of Wales lost 327 men. Despite the risk that the Japanese
would return, the three accompanying destroyers did not leave their colleagues
and this no doubt saved a great many lives.

(in reply to Ohio Jones)

Post #: 481

RE: OT - WWII quiz - 8/26/2008 10:09:29 PM

cockney

Posts: 83
Joined: 11/15/2006
From: London
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: cockney

What happend after crossing the Volturno in October 1943, and the 56th entered the town of Calvi Vecchia?

Sergent Arturo Brezzio broke his leg ?

Q. What happend after crossing the Volturno in October 1943, and the 56th entered the town of Calvi Vecchia?

A. Their attempts to radio the United States Fifth Army to cancel a planned bombing on the town failed. As a last resort, the 56th released an American homing pigeon named G.I. Joe who carried a message that reached the allies just as the planes were being warmed up. The attack was called off and the division was saved.

_____________________________

never piss off a sgt major

(in reply to Froonp)

Post #: 482

RE: OT - WWII quiz - 8/27/2008 2:55:27 AM

Mike Dubost

Posts: 273
Joined: 8/24/2008
From: Sacramento, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

1. What was the ultimate fate of the light cruiser USS Phoenix?

2. Which much maligned aircraft was responsible for the sinking of the German cruiser Konigsberg in April 1940?

3. How many of the battleships sunk or damaged at Pearl Harbor never re-entered service with the USN?

Warspite1

No takers for these?

Q3 - 1 (Arizona)

Warspite1

Arizona is of course correct - but the number you quote is wrong

2 the other was the Oklahoma ...it was raised and scrapped

Warspite1

Bingo

You know, I was sure that the fate of the Oklahoma was wrong, since I knew she broke up while being towed to the West Coast. I looked around for a website reference to show it, and found that she was sold for scrap prior to the tow. One of my great aunts was talking a few years ago about her experiences in Hawaii during the war (she sailed to Hawaii in mid-December 1941), and she mentioned the Oklahoma. Her brother got her a job as his secretary (his company worked in the shipyard), and she mentioned the Oklahoma breaking up and she still sounded regretful about the wasted effort of raising the ship, even 60 years later!

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 483

RE: OT - WWII quiz - 8/27/2008 2:29:26 PM

micheljq

Posts: 791
Joined: 3/31/2008
From: Quebec
Status: offline

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

1. What was the ultimate fate of the light cruiser USS Phoenix?

Sunk by a japanese sub?

(in reply to Mike Dubost)

Post #: 484

RE: OT - WWII quiz - 8/27/2008 8:22:31 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: micheljq

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

1. What was the ultimate fate of the light cruiser USS Phoenix?

Sunk by a japanese sub?

Warspite1

No - see Frederyck`s response post 457 for the answer.

(in reply to micheljq)

Post #: 485

RE: OT - WWII quiz - 8/28/2008 1:56:46 PM

Froonp

Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline

What's this, and why is it unknown ?

Attachment (1)

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 486

RE: OT - WWII quiz - 8/28/2008 2:00:42 PM

micheljq

Posts: 791
Joined: 3/31/2008
From: Quebec
Status: offline

Looks like french cokarde to me.

(in reply to Froonp)

Post #: 487

RE: OT - WWII quiz - 8/28/2008 3:04:19 PM

Froonp

Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline

French Cocarde is more likely this one.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to micheljq)

Post #: 488

RE: OT - WWII quiz - 8/28/2008 3:44:45 PM

monkla

Posts: 56
Joined: 3/16/2003
From: Adelaide, Australia
Status: offline

Hawker Henley?

(in reply to Froonp)

Post #: 489

RE: OT - WWII quiz - 8/28/2008 4:26:52 PM

Froonp

Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline

Yes.

Here is what Wing's Palette (http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/o/1680/9/0) says about it :
******************************************
Hawker Henley TT.III

The Hawker Henley was a light bomber which was far superior to the Fairey Battle. The reasoning behind the short run of Henleys being built is that it was decided that there would be too much disruption to the vital Hurricane production lines, with which it shared key parts, e.g. the outer wings. When Beaverbrook took over as Minister of Aircraft Production this was the decision made. The horrific losses of the Battle may also have been a factor in its relegation to second-line duties as it was as poorly armed as the Battle.
******************************************

(in reply to monkla)

Post #: 490

RE: OT - WWII quiz - 8/28/2008 5:09:24 PM

monkla

Posts: 56
Joined: 3/16/2003
From: Adelaide, Australia
Status: offline

Ok. What's this? (assuming I've worked out how to add pictures...)

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Froonp)

Post #: 491

RE: OT - WWII quiz - 8/28/2008 5:22:35 PM

Grapeshot Bob

Posts: 642
Joined: 12/16/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline

Which American Infantry Division originally had a swastika on it's shoulder patch?

GSB

(in reply to monkla)

Post #: 492

RE: OT - WWII quiz - 8/28/2008 6:07:35 PM

terje439

Posts: 6813
Joined: 3/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: monkla

Ok. What's this? (assuming I've worked out how to add pictures...)

a tank

(in reply to monkla)

Post #: 493

RE: OT - WWII quiz - 8/28/2008 9:01:45 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: terje439

quote:

ORIGINAL: monkla

Ok. What's this? (assuming I've worked out how to add pictures...)

a tank

Warspite 1

Terje - have you been using Wikipedia again?

(in reply to terje439)

Post #: 494

RE: OT - WWII quiz - 8/28/2008 9:04:42 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grapeshot Bob

Which American Infantry Division originally had a swastika on it's shoulder patch?

GSB

Warspite 1

The 45th Infantry - it was an Indian symbol or something

(in reply to Grapeshot Bob)

Post #: 495

RE: OT - WWII quiz - 8/28/2008 9:14:09 PM

Grapeshot Bob

Posts: 642
Joined: 12/16/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grapeshot Bob

Which American Infantry Division originally had a swastika on it's shoulder patch?

GSB

Warspite 1

The 45th Infantry - it was an Indian symbol or something

Well done.

The swastika was a Native American symbol of good luck. The shoulder patch was changed (for obvious reasons) when the swastika became associated with an extremely evil ideology.

GSB

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 496

RE: OT - WWII quiz - 8/28/2008 9:25:58 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

Who celebrates Ochi day and why?

(in reply to Grapeshot Bob)

Post #: 497

RE: OT - WWII quiz - 8/29/2008 6:05:48 AM

KosMic

Posts: 9
Joined: 8/28/2008
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

And now for my inaugural post on these boards:

quote:

Who celebrates Ochi day and why?

The Greeks. "Ochi" means "No" in Greek. The day commemorates the Greek refusal on October 28, 1940, to accede to Italian occupation. It is a national holiday in Greece (and a good excuse for a party wherever in the world the Greek diaspora may reach) second only to Independence Day in March.

PS: I've been a long time lurker on these boards. I'm encouraged to see that progress is being made, but fully understand there is still a long way to go in this titanic endeavour. Keep up the good work Steve!

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 498

RE: OT - WWII quiz - 8/29/2008 6:45:43 AM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KosMic

And now for my inaugural post on these boards:

quote:

Who celebrates Ochi day and why?

The Greeks. "Ochi" means "No" in Greek. The day commemorates the Greek refusal on October 28, 1940, to accede to Italian occupation. It is a national holiday in Greece (and a good excuse for a party wherever�in the world the Greek diaspora may reach) second only to Independence Day in March.

PS: I've been a long time lurker on these boards. I'm encouraged to see that progress is being made, but fully understand there is still a long way to go in this titanic endeavour. Keep up the good work Steve!

Warspite1

Corrrect

(in reply to KosMic)

Post #: 499

RE: OT - WWII quiz - 8/29/2008 9:37:35 AM

terje439

Posts: 6813
Joined: 3/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: terje439

quote:

ORIGINAL: monkla

Ok. What's this? (assuming I've worked out how to add pictures...)

a tank

Warspite 1

Terje - have you been using Wikipedia again?

shhh!

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 500

RE: OT - WWII quiz - 8/29/2008 11:58:03 AM

michaelbaldur

Posts: 4774
Joined: 4/6/2007
From: denmark
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: terje439

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: terje439

quote:

ORIGINAL: monkla

Ok. What's this? (assuming I've worked out how to add pictures...)

a tank

Warspite 1

Terje - have you been using Wikipedia again?

shhh!

is it the Australian boomerang ....

_____________________________

the wif rulebook is my bible

I work hard, not smart.

beta tester and Mwif expert

if you have questions or issues with the game, just contact me on Michaelbaldur1@gmail.com

(in reply to terje439)

Post #: 501

RE: OT - WWII quiz - 8/29/2008 3:53:01 PM

monkla

Posts: 56
Joined: 3/16/2003
From: Adelaide, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur

quote:

ORIGINAL: terje439

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: terje439

quote:

ORIGINAL: monkla

Ok. What's this? (assuming I've worked out how to add pictures...)

a tank

Warspite 1

Terje - have you been using Wikipedia again?

shhh!

is it the Australian boomerang ....

Well, you got the Australian bit right. As well as being a bent stick though, the Boomerang was a fighter.

(in reply to michaelbaldur)

Post #: 502

RE: OT - WWII quiz - 8/29/2008 4:37:59 PM

AbeSimpson

Posts: 151
Joined: 6/23/2008
Status: offline

Its a Sentinel, perhaps ACIII

(in reply to monkla)

Post #: 503

RE: OT - WWII quiz - 9/2/2008 2:49:26 AM

Neilster

Posts: 2890
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AbeSimpson

Its a Sentinel, perhaps ACIII

Bah! I haven't been here for a few days. I didn't see this gem to answer it. It is an AC3. Now that the cat is out of the bag, we can resort to the intergrid for more details.

From Wikipedia...

The Sentinel tank was designed in Australia in World War II in response to the war in Europe, and to the threat of Japan expanding the war to the Pacific or even a possible Japanese invasion of Australia. It was the first tank to be built with a hull cast as a single piece, and the only tank to be produced in quantity in Australia. The few Sentinels that were built never saw action as Australia's Armoured Divisions had been equipped by that time with British and American tanks.

The AC1 began as a 2 pounder gun-equipped design in November 1940, and initially intended to be a true Cruiser tank. Like the Canadian Ram the Australian Cruiser was to be based on the engine, drive train, and lower hull of the American M3 Medium tank, mated to an upper hull and turret built closely along the lines of a British Crusader. By 1942, trying to keep pace with German tanks, the design specification had become more like an American Medium tank.

The Australian Cruiser tank Mark 1 (AC1) was designated "Sentinel" in February 1942. Fabrication was by Sydney's Chullora Tank Assembly Shops with serial production vehicles emerging in August 1942, the premises also being used as a testing ground. The design used existing parts where available from other tank designs, simplified where necessary to match the machining capacity present in Australia. The hull was cast as a single piece, as was the turret; a technique not used on the hull of any other tanks of the era.

The original vehicle was designed to mount a QF 2 pounder this was later changed to a QF 6 pdr (57 mm, 2.25 in), however none of these were available and the first 65 tanks were built with the 2 pounder. Two Vickers machine guns were carried as secondary armament, one in the hull and a second mounted coaxially beside the main gun. The preferred engines suitable to power a 28 tonne tank, a Pratt & Whitney Wasp single row petrol radial, or a Guiberson diesel radial, were not available within Australia, so the Sentinel was powered by the combined output of three Cadillac 346 in� (5.7 L) V8 petrol car engines installed in clover-leaf configuration. Sixty-five production vehicles had been completed by June 1943.

The Sentinel was to be succeeded by the AC3, a much improved design with better armour protection, and increased firepower. The next step up in firepower available in Australia was the 25 pounder (87.6 mm, 3.45 in) gun-howitzer, this was quickly redesigned as a tank gun using experience gained from the work on the short 25 pounder. Mounted in a fully traversable turret larger than that of the AC1 but using the same 54 inch (137 cm) turret ring, it was slightly cramped for the turret crew but gave the AC3 both armour piercing capability as well as an effective high explosive round. The hull machine gun and gunner were removed from the design to make room for stowage of the larger 25 pounder ammunition. Powered by the same three Cadillac V8 engines as the AC1, they were now mounted on a common crank case and geared together to form the Perrier-Cadillac, a single 17.1 L, 24 cylinder engine, very similar in some respects to the later A57 Chrysler multibank used in some variants of the US M3 and M4 tanks. One pilot model AC3 had been completed and work had started on producing 25 tanks for trials when the programme was terminated.

In an effort to further improve the firepower of the Australian produced tanks a turret was developed and mounted on one of the earlier development vehicles to assess the vehicle's ability to mount the foremost Allied anti-tank gun of the day - the British 17 pounder (76 mm, 3 in). This was achieved by mounting two 25 pounder gun-howitzers which when fired together would significantly exceed the recoil of a 17 pounder; it was later fitted with a 17 pounder and after successful gunnery trials the 17 pounder was selected for the AC4 design.

The completed Sentinel tanks were used for evaluation purposes only and were not issued to operational armoured units. The Australian Cruiser tank programme was terminated in July 1943 and the tanks that had been produced were placed in storage until the end of the war.

In 1943 the 3rd Army Tank Battalion was equipped with a squadron of AC1 tanks which had been modified to resemble German tanks. These tanks were used in the filming of the movie 'The Rats of Tobruk'. This appears to have been the only time a squadron of Sentinels was used for any purpose.

All but 3 tanks were dismantled or disposed of in 1945.

Surviving Sentinels can be seen at the RAAC tank museum at Puckapunyal Victoria (serial number 8030), and at the Bovington Tank Museum (serial number 8049). The only completed AC3 (serial number 8066) is located at the Treloar Technology Centre at the Australian War Memorial in Canberra.

From what I know about tanks, I'd say the AC3 and AC4 would have been pretty handy and for me (as an Aussie WW2 buff) it's a pity they weren't produced in quantity and used. They'd have to eliminate that shot-trap on the side of the turret though.

Here's a 17pdr armed AC4.

Cheers, Neilster

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Neilster -- 9/2/2008 2:50:37 AM >

(in reply to AbeSimpson)

Post #: 504

RE: OT - WWII quiz - 9/2/2008 4:11:29 PM

mmn

Posts: 8
Joined: 11/2/2005
From: EU/DEN/CPH
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

When they were finally spotted, it was a submarine, not
an aircraft that found them. I.65 was the most easterly placed of the Submarine
screen and she spotted the British ships in mid-afternoon on the 9th December.
The submarine was then able to tail the British ships and get off a report of
the sighting before losing contact in a rain squall.

Maybe it's just a typing error, but I have a source which credits I-56 with the spotting of Prince of Wales and Repulse. 'The Rising Sun' by John Toland on p.238 says I-56 spotted Prince of Wales and Repulse at 1:45pm Dec.9th, but that static prevented a message from being delivered to Saigon before 3pm.

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 505

RE: OT - WWII quiz - 9/2/2008 7:40:48 PM

Ohio Jones

Posts: 31
Joined: 11/26/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline

OT - question for the questioners. Is there a listing somewhere of the names the Germans gave to occupied Soviet towns and cities? A friend's late father-in-law (an Austrian) served in the Crimea, and there's a picture of him outside a city or town, and the caption on the back refers to it with a German name. I don't have the picture handy here, but if there's somewhere I can point my friend to in terms of a little research, I know he'd be grateful. He didn't turn anything up during his own trip to Russia earlier this year...

Thank in advance for any assistance!

(in reply to mmn)

Post #: 506

RE: OT - WWII quiz - 9/2/2008 11:13:10 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mmn

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

When they were finally spotted, it was a submarine, not
an aircraft that found them. I.65 was the most easterly placed of the Submarine
screen and she spotted the British ships in mid-afternoon on the 9th December.
The submarine was then able to tail the British ships and get off a report of
the sighting before losing contact in a rain squall.

Maybe it's just a typing error, but I have a source which credits I-56 with the spotting of Prince of Wales and Repulse. 'The Rising Sun' by John Toland on p.238 says I-56 spotted Prince of Wales and Repulse at 1:45pm Dec.9th, but that static prevented a message from being delivered to Saigon before 3pm.

Warspite 1

Maybe John Toland made a typing error - I have two sources says its I-65.

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 9/3/2008 8:56:56 PM >

(in reply to mmn)

Post #: 507

RE: OT - WWII quiz - 9/3/2008 9:50:17 PM

mlees

Posts: 2263
Joined: 9/20/2003
From: San Diego
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Dubost

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

1. What was the ultimate fate of the light cruiser USS Phoenix?

2. Which much maligned aircraft was responsible for the sinking of the German cruiser Konigsberg in April 1940?

3. How many of the battleships sunk or damaged at Pearl Harbor never re-entered service with the USN?

Warspite1

No takers for these?

Q3 - 1 (Arizona)

Warspite1

Arizona is of course correct - but the number you quote is wrong

2 the other was the Oklahoma ...it was raised and scrapped

Warspite1

Bingo

You know, I was sure that the fate of the Oklahoma was wrong, since I knew she broke up while being towed to the West Coast. I looked around for a website reference to show it, and found that she was sold for scrap prior to the tow. One of my great aunts was talking a few years ago about her experiences in Hawaii during the war (she sailed to Hawaii in mid-December 1941), and she mentioned the Oklahoma. Her brother got her a job as his secretary (his company worked in the shipyard), and she mentioned the Oklahoma breaking up and she still sounded regretful about the wasted effort of raising the ship, even 60 years later!

You remembered correctly, Oklahoma foundered while under tow to the US west coast:

Wiki

quote:

Salvage
The difficult salvage job was commenced on 15 July 1942 by Pearl Harbor Naval Shipyard men under the immediate command of Captain F.H. Whitaker, USN. Preparations for righting the overturned hull took 7� months. The actual righting took 3� months, between 8 March 1943 and 16 June, with Oklahoma being towed into dry dock on 28 December. Decommissioned 1 September 1944, Oklahoma was stripped of guns and superstructure, and sold on 5 December 1946 to Moore Drydock Company of Oakland, California. Oklahoma sank on 17 May 1947, 540 miles out of Pearl Harbor, while being towed to San Francisco.

Of the battleships attacked at Pearl, here are their fates:

USS Nevada Managed to get underway during the attack, but attacked heavily while still in harbor. Ship beached on Hospital Point to avoid blocking channel. Repaired, and returned to service in time to participate in Aleutians in May '43. Other notable battles: Normandy/DDay, Southern France landings, Iwo Jima, Okinawa, bombardment of Japanese Home Islands. Used as target in Bikini Abomb tests, 1946. Radioactive hull sunk by conventional weapons, 65 miles SW of Pearl Harbor, 1948.

USS Arizona: Struck by converted battleship shell dropped as a bomb, detonating one of the magazines. Sank at moorings. Some wreckage cleared away, some guns used as coast defence guns on Oahu. Remains as a memorial.

USS West Virginia: Moored outboard of Tennessee on Dec 7. Hit by two converted battleship shell-bombs, and as many as seven torpedoes. Settled upright due to counter flooding. Refloated in May of '42, returned to service September of '44. Participated in Leyte Gulf battle, bombardments in the Phillippines, Iwo Jima, Okinawa. Ship decomissioned in January of '47, sold for scrap in Auguast, '59.

USS Tennessee: Moored inboard of West Virginia, Dec 7. Hit by two bombs. Ship repaired and returned to service in Febuary of '42. Remained in Eastern Pacific to guard US West Coast, with escort duties as far as Hawaii. Modernisation Aug '42 to May '43. Served in Aleutians, Tarawa, Marshall Islands, Solomons, Marianas, Peleliu, Leyte Gulf, Iwo Jima, and Okinawa battles. Decommisioned in Feb '47, sold for scrap in July of '59.

USS Maryland: Moored inboard of Oklahoma, struck by two bombs. Repaired and returned to service in Febuary of '42. Participated in Gilberts, Marshalls, Admiralty Islands, Marianas, Leyte Gulf, Okinawa battles. Decommisioned in April of '47, sold for scrap in July of '59.

USS Oklahoma: Moored outboard of Maryland. Struck by five torpedoes, capsized. Turned back upright in a three month operation that ended in June '43, decommisioned in September of '44. Sold for scrap, December of '46, sank under tow.

USS California: Struck by two torpedoes and two bombs. Slowly settled upright. Repaired and returned to service by May of '44. Participated in Marianas, Leyte Gulf, Okinawa battles. Decommisioned in Febuary of '47, sold for scrap July of '59.

USS Pennsylvania In dry dock on Dec 7, along with two destroyers. Struck by one bomb, but suffered damage from numerous near misses and explosions from the destroyers in the dock with her. Repaired and returned to service in April of '42. Participated in Aleutians, Gilberts, Marshalls, Florida Islands, Marianas, Peleliu, Leyte Gulf, Okinawa battles. Used as target in Bikini Abomb tests. Decomissioned in Aug of '46, radioactive hull sunk off Kwajalein in Feb '48.

Honorable mention: USS Utah Former BB-31, converted into radio controlled target in 1932, with main guns removed. In 1937, quad 1.1inch AA-machine guns were installed, and Utah served as an advanced AA gunnery school. Moored west of Ford Island on Dec 7. Struck by a torpedo, Utah slowly capsized. Decommisioned in Sep of '44, wreck remains in place.

Counting every ship that touched bottom, 5 active BB's sunk. Only Arizona, Oklahoma (and Utah) not returned to service.

(in reply to Mike Dubost)

Post #: 508

RE: OT - WWII quiz - 9/6/2008 6:15:39 PM

Mike Dubost

Posts: 273
Joined: 8/24/2008
From: Sacramento, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mlees

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Dubost

You know, I was sure that the fate of the Oklahoma was wrong, since I knew she broke up while being towed to the West Coast. I looked around for a website reference to show it, and found that she was sold for scrap prior to the tow. One of my great aunts was talking a few years ago about her experiences in Hawaii during the war (she sailed to Hawaii in mid-December 1941), and she mentioned the Oklahoma. Her brother got her a job as his secretary (his company worked in the shipyard), and she mentioned the Oklahoma breaking up and she still sounded regretful about the wasted effort of raising the ship, even 60 years later!

You remembered correctly, Oklahoma foundered while under tow to the US west coast:

Wiki

quote:

Salvage
The difficult salvage job was commenced on 15 July 1942 by Pearl Harbor Naval Shipyard men under the immediate command of Captain F.H. Whitaker, USN. Preparations for righting the overturned hull took 7� months. The actual righting took 3� months, between 8 March 1943 and 16 June, with Oklahoma being towed into dry dock on 28 December. Decommissioned 1 September 1944, Oklahoma was stripped of guns and superstructure, and sold on 5 December 1946 to Moore Drydock Company of Oakland, California. Oklahoma sank on 17 May 1947, 540 miles out of Pearl Harbor, while being towed to San Francisco.

Of the battleships attacked at Pearl, here are their fates:

USS Nevada Managed to get underway during the attack, but attacked heavily while still in harbor. Ship beached on Hospital Point to avoid blocking channel. Repaired, and returned to service in time to participate in Aleutians in May '43. Other notable battles: Normandy/DDay, Southern France landings, Iwo Jima, Okinawa, bombardment of Japanese Home Islands. Used as target in Bikini Abomb tests, 1946. Radioactive hull sunk by conventional weapons, 65 miles SW of Pearl Harbor, 1948.

USS Arizona: Struck by converted battleship shell dropped as a bomb, detonating one of the magazines. Sank at moorings. Some wreckage cleared away, some guns used as coast defence guns on Oahu. Remains as a memorial.

USS West Virginia: Moored outboard of Tennessee on Dec 7. Hit by two converted battleship shell-bombs, and as many as seven torpedoes. Settled upright due to counter flooding. Refloated in May of '42, returned to service September of '44. Participated in Leyte Gulf battle, bombardments in the Phillippines, Iwo Jima, Okinawa. Ship decomissioned in January of '47, sold for scrap in Auguast, '59.

USS Tennessee: Moored inboard of West Virginia, Dec 7. Hit by two bombs. Ship repaired and returned to service in Febuary of '42. Remained in Eastern Pacific to guard US West Coast, with escort duties as far as Hawaii. Modernisation Aug '42 to May '43. Served in Aleutians, Tarawa, Marshall Islands, Solomons, Marianas, Peleliu, Leyte Gulf, Iwo Jima, and Okinawa battles. Decommisioned in Feb '47, sold for scrap in July of '59.

USS Maryland: Moored inboard of Oklahoma, struck by two bombs. Repaired and returned to service in Febuary of '42. Participated in Gilberts, Marshalls, Admiralty Islands, Marianas, Leyte Gulf, Okinawa battles. Decommisioned in April of '47, sold for scrap in July of '59.

USS Oklahoma: Moored outboard of Maryland. Struck by five torpedoes, capsized. Turned back upright in a three month operation that ended in June '43, decommisioned in September of '44. Sold for scrap, December of '46, sank under tow.

USS California: Struck by two torpedoes and two bombs. Slowly settled upright. Repaired and returned to service by May of '44. Participated in Marianas, Leyte Gulf, Okinawa battles. Decommisioned in Febuary of '47, sold for scrap July of '59.

USS Pennsylvania In dry dock on Dec 7, along with two destroyers. Struck by one bomb, but suffered damage from numerous near misses and explosions from the destroyers in the dock with her. Repaired and returned to service in April of '42. Participated in Aleutians, Gilberts, Marshalls, Florida Islands, Marianas, Peleliu, Leyte Gulf, Okinawa battles. Used as target in Bikini Abomb tests. Decomissioned in Aug of '46, radioactive hull sunk off Kwajalein in Feb '48.

Honorable mention: USS Utah Former BB-31, converted into radio controlled target in 1932, with main guns removed. In 1937, quad 1.1inch AA-machine guns were installed, and Utah served as an advanced AA gunnery school. Moored west of Ford Island on Dec 7. Struck by a torpedo, Utah slowly capsized. Decommisioned in Sep of '44, wreck remains in place.

Counting every ship that touched bottom, 5 active BB's sunk. Only Arizona, Oklahoma (and Utah) not returned to service.

Actually, I was wrong about the timing of the decommissioning versus the tow. I had thought she was still in commission at the time of the tow.

(in reply to mlees)

Post #: 509

RE: OT - WWII quiz - 9/8/2008 11:21:00 PM

brian brian

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline

this might be an easy one, might not...in 1941, while demanding an immediate Second Front, what did Stalin offer to England?

(in reply to Mike Dubost)

Post #: 510

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RE: OT - WWII quiz