Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
This is real dangerous since the Germans have good tactical air to disorganize the non-elite Dutch unit. Simple flanking moves will let them put it out of supply and then overrunning the OOS, disorganized unit can be done by a single armor unit. The result is that Germany can walk into both Amsterdam and Rotterdam.

Overruning this Dutch units under rain needs a German ARM unit with 6 movement points (2 MP for the first hex, and 4 MP for the overrunned hex) adjacent to the Dutch Border. Just add this to my list of conditions for this setup to be used.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
This is real dangerous since the Germans have good tactical air to disorganize the non-elite Dutch unit. Simple flanking moves will let them put it out of supply and then overrunning the OOS, disorganized unit can be done by a single armor unit. The result is that Germany can walk into both Amsterdam and Rotterdam.

Overruning this Dutch units under rain needs a German ARM unit with 6 movement points (2 MP for the first hex, and 4 MP for the overrunned hex) adjacent to the Dutch Border. Just add this to my list of conditions for this setup to be used.

You still need to look for other units that can advance into Amsterdam/Rotterdam after the overrun.

-Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: peskpesk

Netherlands setup AI

When a setup is used

* The Border defence
Is consider to be used when A, B, C, D, E AND F

A) No Threat of paradrop on Rotterdam
B) No Threat of invasion on Rotterdam
C) No Threat of having the land unit overrun
D) War with GE/IT
E) Chance of intervention from controlling power
F) No Threat of enemy land units in Belgium


* NEI defence
Is consider to be used when, A or B

A) No Chance of intervention in Netherlands from controlling power AND
game turn not Sep/Oct 1939 AND not Mar/Apr 1940 AND not May/Jun 1940
B) War with JP

* The Capital defence
Is consider to be used when one of A or B OR When the AI wants
A) Threat of paradrop on Amsterdam
B) Threat of invasion on Amsterdam

--Extreme setup
* Rotterdam defence
Is consider to be used when all of A, B, C OR D, E and F

A) No Threat of a quick land advance to Amsterdam from the North east
B) War with GE/IT
C) No Threat of enemy land units in Belgium

D) No Threat of invasion on Amsterdam
E) No Threat of paradrop on Amsterdam
F) War with allies

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm
Remember that you get to set up a reserve unit in Batavia.
-Orm

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ORIGINAL: hjaco

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm
Remember that you get to set up a reserve unit in Batavia.
-Orm

No you don't. All MIL are removed from the production spiral when a country is incomplete conquered.

If we are talking about a 39/40 attack on the Netherlands everything must go against Germany to help France. So in this case the INF should go into Europe. Sure, the NEI MIL could be build in this case.

The other plausible scenario is a neutral Netherland in 41' which Germany and Japan declares war on simultaneously. The INF will surely go to NEI in this case but the same scenario applies. All MIL are removed when the Netherlands are conquered.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: hjaco

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm
Remember that you get to set up a reserve unit in Batavia.
-Orm

No you don't. All MIL are removed from the production spiral when a country is incomplete conquered.

If we are talking about a 39/40 attack on the Netherlands everything must go against Germany to help France. So in this case the INF should go into Europe. Sure, the NEI MIL could be build in this case.

The other plausible scenario is a neutral Netherland in 41' which Germany and Japan declares war on simultaneously. The INF will surely go to NEI in this case but the same scenario applies. All MIL are removed when the Netherlands are conquered.

From raw

19.13 MIL units
All MIL that arrive in cities in an aligned minor country are units of that minor county.

So according to RAW the Batavia MIL is NOT a Ne unit but a NEI unit and is therefore not removed.

-Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm
From raw

19.13 MIL units
All MIL that arrive in cities in an aligned minor country are units of that minor county.

So according to RAW the Batavia MIL is NOT a Ne unit but a NEI unit and is therefore not removed.
-Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

I would recommend that the Netherlands set up as many naval and air units as possible in Dutch Guyana (I believe some convoys are already being set up there) in the event of an Axis DoW. Also, I don't think the setups above will respect the requirement for 1/2 the Dutch land/air units to set up in the Netherlands with all that airforce in

My reasoning is that, in 1941-1942, if the Japanese are part of the DoW, any air units based in Telok Betong are almost certainly going to be overrun and destroyed, and whatever's left over will have to flee.

To overrun Telok Betong, all the Japanese have to do is land a division there during the surprise impulse since (a) Dutch/NEI units in Batavia exert no ZoC over the straits, and (b) the notional is -1 factor (i.e. 0 factors) when surprised.

quote:

ORIGINAL: peskpesk

quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

I would recommend that the Netherlands set up as many naval and air units as possible in Dutch Guyana (I believe some convoys are already being set up there) in the event of an Axis DoW. Also, I don't think the setups above will respect the requirement for 1/2 the Dutch land/air units to set up in the Netherlands with all that airforce in

My reasoning is that, in 1941-1942, if the Japanese are part of the DoW, any air units based in Telok Betong are almost certainly going to be overrun and destroyed, and whatever's left over will have to flee.

To overrun Telok Betong, all the Japanese have to do is land a division there during the surprise impulse since (a) Dutch/NEI units in Batavia exert no ZoC over the straits, and (b) the notional is -1 factor (i.e. 0 factors) when surprised.

Thanks, I missed the straits zoc, so if we place the plane in Jokyakarta (for later rebase) it's safer.

Maybe I missed something, I thought land/air and naval units was included in "At least half a minor country’s initial units must set up in its home country"

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ORIGINAL: peskpesk
Yes, it’s an option. But it’s harder to keep in supply. Units in Sumatra and Java have the chance of supply from the “backdoor” East Indian Ocean. To see a CP survive in South China Sea is not so likely. Of curse the Japanese still need to ground strike the unit…

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: peskpesk
Yes, it’s an option. But it’s harder to keep in supply. Units in Sumatra and Java have the chance of supply from the “backdoor” East Indian Ocean. To see a CP survive in South China Sea is not so likely. Of curse the Japanese still need to ground strike the unit…

Also, by seting up in Borneo, you only interdict 1 oil, which leaves 3 oil to be taken as freebies by the Japanese if he elects to invade directly the oil wells in the first impulse because he is in deep need of oil and will take Batavia next. Setting up in Palembang you interdict 2 oil wells, and this is a city (supply garanteed for NEI units) and it is a swamp.
With such a setup, I'd invade the 2 oil spots for the gain of the 3 oil resources (I invade the Palembang one in the adjacent forest hex, and then I walk into Palembang) wth 2 DIV for 2 auto invasions, and I also invade Java with 1-2 corps for an easy conquest of Batavia defended by only 1 corps or nothing.

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ORIGINAL: composer99

There will not be a threat of blitzing over the frozen lake in Blizzard as the terrain costs in Blizzard are too high for breakthroughs. Snow will still allow that possibility, though.

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ORIGINAL: Dr Deo

Most I've read about the Netherlands in various threads in the forum is that Germany sometimes holds the DOW until the Japan DOW, in order to keep the NL CP from CW in 39/40. If Japan declares war on the US, NL, CW and FR simultaneously, then it could be a good move. However, if Japan decides to go for CW only first and the Axis therefore wants to minimise US entry, the following could happen:

1) Germany DOWs NL.
2) SU aligns NL.
3) Now Japan needs to DOW Joe in order to get the NEI oil...

Of course, this requires SU to be active and that usually means they have their hands full in the West already, but in some cases it might be worth it. E.g. if Japan is totally unprepared for a Siberian war and/or SU managed to break the Nazi-Soviet pact early while Germany was fishing in the Dyle, so the war in the west isn't that bad.

Another possibility I haven't seen discussed is if NL is in fact DOWed by Germany early and aligned by CW. CW sets up the 4-3 INF in Palembang. When the JP DOW draws near, the NEI is reinforced by expendable CW troops on Palembang and/or the other oil wells. Japan will not be able to dislodge all of them in one turn without considerable effort, so any remaining units will destroy the oil wells in the victory check step. Voilà, the IJN stays in port! However, reading the fine print in the RAW again I realise now that oil well destruction requires the units to be in supply... A competent Japanese player will have made sure they aren't, so I guess it's not such a good idea after all...

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ORIGINAL: WIFFE_RAW-7.0.pdf ~ 5.1 Trade agreements
Netherlands
The Netherlands must supply Japan with 2 oil resources a turn. This continues until Japan is at war with either the Netherlands or the Commonwealth, or the US embargoes oil sales to Japan (see 13.3.2, entry option 31).

A neutral Netherlands must supply the CW with all its remaining oil.

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ORIGINAL: Wifchart.pdf ~ 13.3.3 US ENTRY ACTIONS
33. Japan declares war on the CW, France or Netherlands (Ja) 3 & 5 (two US entry chits and 80% chance of a third chit)

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3 The USA also picks 1 extra chit a turn for each action (except conquests by surrender). It must go into the marked entry pool.
5 Rolled once per city, major power, neutral minor country or search.

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ORIGINAL: Dr Deo

Well, in both cases I'm assuming Japan is about the declare on CW, so the agreement will be off then anyway.

The Japan DOW on NL entry action is exactly why it's better to have Germany DOW instead of Nippon, but if it happens late in the game it's viable under some circumstances to have SU align NL instead of CW, to force JP into taking US entry hits to get the oil.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dr Deo

That's exactly what I'm saying... If Germany declares war on NL first, then Japan won't have to DOW NL separately and won't suffer the extra US entry chits! However, that also gives the Allies the opportunity to align NL with Soviet Union if it would cause problems for Japan, but in 95% of the cases I'd say it would align with CW anyway.

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ORIGINAL: WIFFE_RAW-7.0.pdf ~ Incomplete conquest

Now choose a new home country for the units of the conquered home country. Conquered Commonwealth home countries can pick another Commonwealth home country (e.g. if Britain is conquered, you could pick Canada as the new home country for British units). Other conquered major power home countries (and Commonwealth if you want), can pick any aligned minor home country. Conquered minor countries can pick either any home country of their controlling major power or any home country that the minor country itself controls.

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ORIGINAL: Wifchart.pdf ~ 13.3.3 US ENTRY ACTIONS
9. Japan declares war on USSR (Ja) (70% chance of a US entry chit)

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ORIGINAL: WIFFE_RAW-7.0.pdf ~ 9.2 How to declare war

You can’t declare war on:

• A minor country that is already controlled by a major power on the other side. However, a declaration of war on a major power is also a declaration of war on every minor country aligned to that major power.

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ORIGINAL: Wifchart.pdf ~ 13.3.3 US ENTRY ACTIONS
2. Japan and USSR sign neutrality pact (Ja) (30% chance of a US entry chit)