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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Kharkov: Disaster on the Donets >> There is a problem... Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
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There is a problem... - 9/21/2008 9:00:07 AM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		With the Combat Advisor...

Well, if I was telling the truth, it's not with the Combat Advisor...I just forgot to check (and it isn't mentioned in the manual that I remember...so you may want to point it out...'cos it is important)...

With the Combat Advisor, it's very, very easy to click and press CTRL-O - that handy shortcut key you mention in the tutorial - problem is, it isn't really apparent that this could strip you flanks of troops.

The reason I missed this is because it doesn't become apparent in the tutorial really. Most units are fairly close and the Soviet player has enough troops not to worry about exposing a flank...however, I've just come across it in the main campaign and it's caused me a problem...now my Northern flank is exposed as troops were stripped from there to come to my Combat Advisors aid.

Now I know it's my problem. The Combat Advisor, after all, does highlight the units to come to your rescue. However, you aren't aware that it's going to take ALL your units.

You don't need these, as anyone who it happens to learns their lesson pretty quickly, but I think an undo button for following the Combat Advisors advice would be nice. AND pointing it out in the tutorial...because it really isn't apparent in the tutorial.

I know they can be construed as "idiots" help, but it did take me by surprise that my Northern flank is almost completely devoid of units so I could get my 20-1 odds further south against a strongpoint.

< Message edited by JudgeDredd -- 9/21/2008 9:02:06 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: There is a problem... - 9/21/2008 10:04:32 AM   
Noakesy

 

Posts: 193
Joined: 5/26/2005
Status: offline 		The combat advisor in this (and previous SSG) game is very much a double edged sword. With the normal advisor it will tell you which units to move, but does not take into account the strategic situation, I see it as a simple "maths" tool to help you out. It's really useful, but you'll find there is often more than one way to achieve the end result, and the pc only tells you one of them.

I've not used the CtrlO function as I guessed that it would just strip units out ruthlessly, and in no way would it consider the strategic situation at the time (it can't).

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RE: There is a problem... - 9/21/2008 10:21:48 AM   
e_barkmann


Posts: 1307
Joined: 4/18/2000
From: Adelaide, Australia
Status: offline 		I don't think an undo option after pressing Cntrl-0 would work due to the amount of possible actions undertaken by that command that would not be allowed to be undone (eg expose an enemy unit).

I think it's best to look at the units highlighted to move for a selected combat before committing, and judge whether the CA is itself being judicious or otherwise...

cheers

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RE: There is a problem... - 9/21/2008 11:47:44 AM   
JudgeDredd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Merchant

I don't think an undo option after pressing Cntrl-0 would work due to the amount of possible actions undertaken by that command that would not be allowed to be undone (eg expose an enemy unit).

I think it's best to look at the units highlighted to move for a selected combat before committing, and judge whether the CA is itself being judicious or otherwise...

cheers

Well, it's just as well I wasn't developing the game, 'cos that is something I clearly missed

Enjoying trying to hold the flanks with limited forces...at the moment, the map looks rather exciting.

The Northern Flank





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RE: There is a problem... - 9/21/2008 11:48:37 AM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		The Western Flank





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RE: There is a problem... - 9/21/2008 11:49:27 AM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		The Southern Flank




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RE: There is a problem... - 9/21/2008 11:56:02 AM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Turn 3 of 16 and it is rather exciting, having to maximise your forces whilst trying not to leave flanks exposed. Although it does seem as if the Axis AI would rather batton down the hatches near Kharkov than come in through the back door. Of course, I don't know what the Axis AOs looks like, so I don't know if he can take advantage of my exposed Northern or Western flanks...he certainly doesn't seem to have much in the way of spare units in the centre (Western flank).

I also don't know what he's got in reinforcements...could be he can come smashing up at any moment through my western flank...who knows. I guess I'll find out.

The Northern flank is like hammering at a great big metal door with a fork

The Western flank I've left exposed with great risk of being cut off

The Southern flank I'm coming under alot of pressure.

I will add I am playing the Soviets and Axis AI is on normal (turning it up a notch is the recommended level). Also I am playing with historical AOs, do not have any knowledge of Axis AOs or reinforcements.

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Post #: 7
RE: There is a problem... - 9/21/2008 3:10:49 PM   
LarryP


Posts: 3783
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Carson City, NV
Status: offline 		So Judge, was it worth the $60 so far for one scenario?

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Post #: 8
RE: There is a problem... - 9/21/2008 3:47:20 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		I am actually having lots of fun at the moment...but I may stll may be in "new game" mode.

The machanics are great though...I'll give them that just now.

And someone in another thread said the battle is fluid...from my limited turns (4) I have to agree...at least in my game. I decided where I wanted a gap, made the gap and then bolted...however, I'm having to back track already.

Worth $60...at the moment, I'm not disappointed...

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Post #: 9
RE: There is a problem... - 9/21/2008 3:49:04 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		I meant to say also...with the link from Treale (I think) for the WWII Soviet and German music, it's very enjoyable. Playing as the Soviets and listening to the marching songs of WWII Russia...great. Can't wait....as the Germans I have my beloved PanzerLeid.

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Post #: 10
RE: There is a problem... - 9/21/2008 5:29:06 PM   
Toby42


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From: Central Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I meant to say also...with the link from Treale (I think) for the WWII Soviet and German music, it's very enjoyable. Playing as the Soviets and listening to the marching songs of WWII Russia...great. Can't wait....as the Germans I have my beloved PanzerLeid.


"PanzerLeid" was the only good thing to come out of that terrible movie "Battle of the Bulge". You would think that the producers never read a history of the battle or talked to any veterans. I did like Telly Savalas' part though


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Post #: 11
RE: There is a problem... - 9/21/2008 5:31:44 PM   
LarryP


Posts: 3783
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Carson City, NV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Worth $60...at the moment, I'm not disappointed...


Do you also have Battlefront, and if so, isn't this game similar? I have Battlefront and that keeps me from buying this one too.

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Post #: 12
RE: There is a problem... - 9/21/2008 6:43:03 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		I don't own Battlefront.

As far as I know, it's "different" to Battlefront. How, I'm not sure. Well, except the AOs which are exciting in so far as you need the resources but can't have them until you take your objective.

I was not a fan of the SSG system. I didn't give Korsun Pocket much of a chance because I didn't like the look and feel and, frankly, didn't quite "get it".

I could say I wouldn't be shy on buying another of their titles. Not to say I'm a fan of the "1 scenario" thing...but if other scenarios come out...well...you never know...never say never I suppose.

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Post #: 13
RE: There is a problem... - 9/21/2008 7:03:06 PM   
LarryP


Posts: 3783
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Carson City, NV
Status: offline 		Shoot, as short a time as I play a game the 1 scenario thing would be just right. Although I always come back to all games so in the long run I get my monies worth. If this is a lot like Battlefront then I'm not interested. I have read good things about this one though, but I was still surprised you bought it. Our interests are hard to keep fed.

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Post #: 14
RE: There is a problem... - 9/21/2008 7:09:31 PM   
Toby42


Posts: 1626
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: Central Florida
Status: offline 		Larry, What's the rap against Battlefront?

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Post #: 15
RE: There is a problem... - 9/21/2008 7:11:15 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Well I was and have been intrigued with the AOs.It just "sounds right" in a game...keeping forces back until an objective is met and, with that success comes reward.

So I was keeping my eye on it and was not at all sure about the 1 scenario job...really, I do not want to feed developers money so they can churn out games with 1 scenario and rely on the customers to make more.

I'm still not entirly sure about the 1 scenario...but the game has surprised me.

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Post #: 16
RE: There is a problem... - 9/21/2008 7:17:20 PM   
LarryP


Posts: 3783
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Carson City, NV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Treale

Larry, What's the rap against Battlefront?


I don't need another Battlefront. I also have BoN, BoI, and Korsun. Unless there are some major differences then I'm not interested in another of this type. I have no rap against Battlefront.

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Post #: 17
RE: There is a problem... - 9/21/2008 9:34:58 PM   
Toby42


Posts: 1626
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: Central Florida
Status: offline 		Maybe someone that has both games could do a comparison???

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Post #: 18
RE: There is a problem... - 9/21/2008 9:53:29 PM   
LarryP


Posts: 3783
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Carson City, NV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Treale

Maybe someone that has both games could do a comparison???


You're right, let us know how you like Battlefront.

For $50 download and $60 physical?! Not me. Not anymore. I payed less for Advanced Tactics and that game can be played from now to eternity. Great value!

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Post #: 19
RE: There is a problem... - 9/21/2008 9:58:32 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		I thought Advanced Tactics was awful...but I was, apparently, the only person who thought this!! 

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Post #: 20
RE: There is a problem... - 9/21/2008 10:38:01 PM   
LarryP


Posts: 3783
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Carson City, NV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I thought Advanced Tactics was awful...but I was, apparently, the only person who thought this!! 


I did too until I played it more. It's one of the best games Matrix has. I still find it hard to believe that one guy programmed it all.

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Post #: 21
RE: There is a problem... - 9/21/2008 10:42:05 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Well, kudos to anyone who programmes computer games...that's a given...

I just didn't like it because of it's lack of "real world"...maps...factions...units...nothing had a "real" feel.

Don't get me wrong, I'm one of those who don't need a WWII simulation. Far from it, I like to stand a chance of winning, meaning I like to win on my own merits, not have it dictated to me because "that's the way it was"...but the lack of real places, factions just ruined the immersion for me.

Like I said though...he wrote a wargame...I haven't

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Post #: 22
RE: There is a problem... - 9/21/2008 10:51:54 PM   
LarryP


Posts: 3783
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Carson City, NV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I just didn't like it because of it's lack of "real world"...maps...factions...units...nothing had a "real" feel.


I understand that too. I have felt that way about many games. TOAW3 is one but I'm playing it right now. I like for games to have a personality of the era it's portraying. FoF, WBtS, UV, and WiTP are a few that did that well for me. The sounds and music add to that a lot and Adv Tactics has a lack of that. I play my own music in Media Player so that's taken care of.

I really was hoping that somebody would jump in here and say that Kharkov is MUCH better than Battlefront with many more options.

< Message edited by LarryP -- 9/21/2008 10:52:06 PM >

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RE: There is a problem... - 9/22/2008 12:30:46 AM   
Toby42


Posts: 1626
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: Central Florida
Status: offline 		It doesn't sound like there is anyone out there that has both games?

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RE: There is a problem... - 9/22/2008 2:35:52 AM   
LarryP


Posts: 3783
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Carson City, NV
Status: offline 		Weekends are slower here than weekdays, so maybe next week someone will jump in and give us a comparison.

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Post #: 25
RE: There is a problem... - 9/22/2008 2:43:10 AM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline 		Its already next week here

I have both games.

I you have played Battlefront, Kharkov will be very familiar and easy to pick up. Kharkov has a number of improvements that makes it a much superior game engine.

The AOs make the AI probably now the best in wargaming.

Using Mystery AOs means that a good PBEM player cannot memorise aspects of the game. This makes you more competitive against a good PBEM player.

There are no longer separate Defence HQ units and Attack HQ units. Rather there are HQ units that provide attack supply AND defence supply. This makes for fewer HQ units for the player to worry about.

Units can still entrench. Some units that are entrenched also have the ability to Hedgehog. If a unit is in hedgehog mode, it means that an enemy does not receive any shifts if attacking for 2 or more sides. This makes the unit very difficult to assault but the unit itself is not likely to extricate itself from a predicament. Rather, command needs to attack in that direction to save the situation.

Where an air unit or arty unit attacks an enemy unit, there is now a graphic showing the unit being attacked and losing a step if it did so.

The dice statistics now include all dice rolled for any reason thereby including air and arty attacks.

These items come to mind in a few seconds sitting at my desk at work – wishing I were somewhere else

-


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RE: There is a problem... - 9/22/2008 3:48:23 AM   
LarryP


Posts: 3783
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Carson City, NV
Status: offline 		Thanks Joe! Looks like some pretty good improvements. Now my interest has accelerated some. The graphics are about the same as Battlefront, right?

What exactly are the AO's?

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Post #: 27
RE: There is a problem... - 9/22/2008 4:52:00 AM   
e_barkmann


Posts: 1307
Joined: 4/18/2000
From: Adelaide, Australia
Status: offline 		LarryP,

there's a good description by SSG of the new features of Kharkov, including the new Areas of Operations ('AOs') here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1792278

cheers


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Post #: 28
RE: There is a problem... - 9/22/2008 12:04:12 PM   
Noakesy

 

Posts: 193
Joined: 5/26/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Treale
It doesn't sound like there is anyone out there that has both games?


I have both games, much prefer Kharkov to Battlefront even if it currently only has one scenario.

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Post #: 29
RE: There is a problem... - 9/22/2008 6:52:41 PM   
LarryP


Posts: 3783
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Carson City, NV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Merchant

LarryP,

there's a good description by SSG of the new features of Kharkov, including the new Areas of Operations ('AOs') here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1792278

cheers


Chris; Thanks, I should have gone there to begin with. I have enjoyed all of the opinions here though and appreciate what everyone has added.

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Post #: 30
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