Snipers and Sharpshooters

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> Snipers and Sharpshooters

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Snipers and Sharpshooters - 9/20/2008 9:52:01 AM

KG Erwin

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Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
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Given the conditions of the current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, there is an increased emphasis on accurate shooting and hunting skills. In SPWaW, these specialized units (Snipers and Scout Snipers) aren't given much attention. The US Marines in ENH now have a Scout/Sniper team, with special forces capabilities. This is a concept that originated in WWII, and in the modern era is now starting to be accelerated with all infantry units.

Most of you don't focus on infantry engagements, as the tanks continue to be the kings of the jungle, so to speak. As for me, I consider the armor to be infantry support, and that's it.

As for the hunters (or jaegers, in German parlance), these are the guys that provide recon and take out unwary HQ units. Hunting skills are sometimes desirable in SPWaW combats, especially in difficult terrain. The Marine Scout/Snipers were formed as an adhoc unit at Guadalcanal, and later became a standard part of the TOEs. One of their team leaders (William Dean Hawkins) earned a Medal of Honor at Tarawa.

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RE: Snipers and Sharpshooters - 9/22/2008 7:54:38 AM

TheDesertRat

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Actually try WWI.. It started then not WWII.

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RE: Snipers and Sharpshooters - 9/22/2008 7:46:38 PM

Shawkhan

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...I think, Desert Rat, you do not completely understand the point of the assertion. There have been snipers in most wars since the 18th century. The concept of the scout/sniper represents a Recon asset that is usually more important than that of a simple sniper. You locate targets that more effective assets such as artillery or airpower can then take out, many times w/o ever firing a shot yourself.
...Regular sniper units are introduced in a war but then disbanded at its end. This I believe is because sniping is not quite considered an honorable form of warfare by many career officers, who after all, are the preferred targets of snipers. This prejudice is still in evidence today, with the 'designated marksmen' rather than the 'sniper' within US army units.
...It really wasn't until Vietnam that the scout/sniper became an established concept not simply discontinued at war's end.(Thank the USMC for that)

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RE: Snipers and Sharpshooters - 9/23/2008 2:35:21 AM

TheDesertRat

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The use of sniping pairs to provide information/recon etc did start in WWI.
The needs for such a specialist were not seen by most nations between wars. In fact the sniper team concept died between WWI and WWII. Re arose in Korea and died off again.
Vietnam reintroduced the sniper team for both sniping as well as reon intel gathering.
Those countries, post Nam, that had these special teams kept them on establishment for a while and then this slowly dwindled.
It was finally pulled back to an integral function of relevance with post Nam conflicts.

Now back to WWI, Britain established a sc
December 1915, Ypres, a school to train snipers and intelligence Officers was started. It was called the school of Scouting, Observation and Sniping. Snipers reported to the Int Officer.
It was recognised then that a sniper worked in pairs and was in a position to provide recon and intel.

All that Nam did was reintroduce this all back into the system. Post Nam conflict has just helped it stay.

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RE: Snipers and Sharpshooters - 9/24/2008 3:12:08 AM

KG Erwin

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From: Cross Lanes WV USA
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Perhaps it's situational specific, DesertRat. For the USMC, it was Bill Whaling who organized the first specialized scout/sniper unit on Guadalcanal in 1942. He was probably aware of the earlier British WWI experience, but he adapted his adhoc unit for the jungle warfare conditions of the time. It expanded to the concept of a special-forces-type recon unit who incorporated sharpshooters into the team. This is what we included into the USMC OOB for SPWaW. As such, they are the direct predecessors of the Vietnam-era LRRPs.

In an earlier OOB, I think they were actually called LRRPs. I lobbied for the name change to scout/snipers, as they are now called in the game, and changed them from recon to special forces. This distinguishes them from the "normal" recon units assigned to each line regiment.

I haven't had any success at identifying any of their combat actions, except at Tarawa. There, they were teamed with an engineer demolitions unit to capture positions on "the pier" on the first day, so they were essentially just one part of a combined covert assault team. The scout/snipers' job was to provide suppressing fire while the engineers moved up and blasted the bunkers at the base of the pier.

As for Platoon Leader Hawkins, his MOH citation reads as follows:

"WILLIAM DEAN HAWKINS
Born: April 19, 1914
War: World War II
Rank: First Lieutenant, U.S. Marine Corps
Location of Action: Tarawa
Date of Action: November 20 and 21, 1943

Official Medal of Honor Citation: For valorous and gallant conduct above and beyond the call of duty as commanding officer of a Scout Sniper Platoon attached to the Assault Regiment in action against Japanese-held Tarawa in the Gilbert Island, 20 and 21 November 1943.

The first to disembark from the jeep lighter, 1st Lt. Hawkins unhesitatingly moved forward under heavy enemy fire at the end of the Betio Pier, neutralizing emplacements in coverage of troops assaulting the main beach positions. Fearlessly leading his men on to join the forces fighting desperately to gain a beachhead, he repeatedly risked his life throughout the day and night to direct and lead attacks on pillboxes and installations with grenades and demolitions.

At dawn on the following day, 1st Lt. Hawkins resumed the dangerous mission of clearing the limited beachhead of Japanese resistance, personally initiating an assault on a hostile position fortified by enemy machineguns, and, crawling forward in the face of withering fire, boldly fired pointblank into the loopholes and completed the destruction with grenades.

Refusing to withdraw after being seriously wounded in the chest during this skirmish, 1st Lt. Hawkins steadfastly carried the fight to the enemy, destroying 3 more pillboxes before he was caught in a burst of Japanese shellfire and mortally wounded. His relentless fighting spirit in the face of formidable opposition and his exceptionally daring tactics served as an inspiration to his comrades during the most crucial phase of the battle and reflect the highest credit upon the U.S. Naval Service.

He gallantly gave his life for his country."

Now, before anyone thinks that we made these guys some sort of "Rambo" unit, they are armed with Thompson SMGs, grenades, M1 Carbines and M1903 sniper rifles. That's it.

The demolitions mentioned in the MOH citation were provided by engineers attached to his platoon, specifically for this mission.

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 9/24/2008 3:32:05 AM >

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