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Movie question - 10/8/2000 6:16:00 PM   
Jackk

 

Posts: 174
Joined: 6/2/2000
From: Charlotte, NC
Status: offline 		Hi all, I was watching the Battle of the Bulge yesterday and the final tank battle got me to wondering. Does anyone know what kind of tanks were used for those scenes? The German tanks didn't quite look like Panthers and the US tanks dang sure weren't Shermans. Anyway, just curious. Thanks, ------------------ Jackk "Smile today cuz tomorrow may really suck"

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Jackk "Smile today cuz tomorrow may really suck"
Post #: 1
- 10/8/2000 6:24:00 PM   
jpgr

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 9/18/2000
From: Ft Meade, MD, USA
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Jackk: Hi all, I was watching the Battle of the Bulge yesterday and the final tank battle got me to wondering. Does anyone know what kind of tanks were used for those scenes? The German tanks didn't quite look like Panthers and the US tanks dang sure weren't Shermans. Anyway, just curious. Thanks,
So thats what that was? :-) I watched it for a while but it seemed a little silly. Anyway, the German tanks may have been Pershings and the American tanks looked link Chaffee's. George

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Post #: 2
- 10/8/2000 7:58:00 PM   
Fabs

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 6/5/2000
From: London, U.K.
Status: offline 		The American tanks were definitely Chaffees. The German ones possibly Pattons. I loved this movie when I was a kid, but once I started getting seriously interested in the military history of the Second World War I could see that it was a fairly poor Hollywoodization. A great shame, really. Why can't Hollywood come up with war movies of the quality of Stalingrad? Even "Saving Private Ryan, apart from the graphic impact of the first thirty minutes, goes on to become a sentimental, historically inaccurate feuilleton. I guess a really good war movie would not draw the crowds, while costing an absolute fortune to make. Having said this, with what can be achived with computers these days... ------------------ Fabs

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Fabs

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Post #: 3
- 10/8/2000 9:25:00 PM   
Randy

 

Posts: 1172
Joined: 8/22/2000
From: Torrance, Calif. USA
Status: offline 		You're right on the American tanks being M-24's, and I think the German tanks were M-47's. In the movie Patton, I think the Germans were using early M-48's w/o the machine gun cupola. I forget what the Americans were using. Semper Fi Randy

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Semper Fi
Randy

The United States Marines: America's 911 Force-The Tip of the Spear

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Post #: 4
- 10/8/2000 9:46:00 PM   
Tankhead

 

Posts: 1352
Joined: 6/21/2000
From: Yukon Territory Canada
Status: offline 		Hi All! I though there was something wrong with my eyes when I wacht The Battle Of The Bulge, and Patton. Thanks Fabs and Randy for the info. To see real Shermans and Tigers The movie Kelly Heroes is a good one. Tankhead ------------------ Rick Cloutier [email]rcclout@telusplanet.net[/email] Coordinator: Tankhead's SPWAW Resources http://tankhead.home.icq.com

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Post #: 5
- 10/9/2000 2:08:00 AM   
Randy

 

Posts: 1172
Joined: 8/22/2000
From: Torrance, Calif. USA
Status: offline 		Hey guys, remember the old TV series "Rat Patrol"? Just think, they were using US halftracks, and an M-7 Priest for some type of asault gun! Has any one found any other Hollywood mistakes?? Thanks Semper Fi Randy

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Semper Fi
Randy

The United States Marines: America's 911 Force-The Tip of the Spear

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Post #: 6
- 10/9/2000 3:21:00 AM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		Tons of them, Randy! Where to begin. One of the things that Tee's me off are the curved magazines on M-16 rifles in Nam movies. They did not have those larger curved clips in Nam. Picky, picky. Most Japanese tanks are usually Stuarts with an occasional Sherman tossed in for good measure. I try to ignore it. Even in SPR, the Tigers are made over T-34s. Look at the bogie wheels. But that is okay, they are close enough. I did love the real T-34s in Stalingrad. They were fierce! Wild Bill ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games

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Post #: 7
- 10/9/2000 3:56:00 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi yes that "Battle of the Bulge" movie is very funny. Filmed in Spain the battle takes place in the impassable Ardennes Desert. On a bright sunny day without a single allied plane (other then Henrys Piper) The US have brillently deployed their tanks in relief atop a ridge where the Germans fail to notice them (except Telly who more like a SPWaW player hides behind ridge) How much do gas barrels cost and do you get them as core or support units? they are like giant molotovs only their accuracy rating from 5 or 6 hexs is 99% My question is how did that panzer leader live till 1944? ------------------ I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a differant direction!

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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

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Post #: 8
- 10/9/2000 7:07:00 AM   
Jackk

 

Posts: 174
Joined: 6/2/2000
From: Charlotte, NC
Status: offline 		LOL Thanks guys! I look at some of these movies as just that. Movies. There to tell a story, not necessarily to be completely accurate. I haven't seen Stalingrad. Bummer. Is it an old one? Just want an idea as to which section to look under :-) I'll have some of those fuel barrels too! ------------------ Jackk "Smile today cuz tomorrow may really suck"

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Jackk "Smile today cuz tomorrow may really suck"

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Post #: 9
- 10/9/2000 7:59:00 AM   
Randy

 

Posts: 1172
Joined: 8/22/2000
From: Torrance, Calif. USA
Status: offline 		The German commander in Battle of the Bulge, (movie)was he supposed to be Jocheim Piper? Thanks Semper Fi Randy

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Semper Fi
Randy

The United States Marines: America's 911 Force-The Tip of the Spear

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Post #: 10
- 10/9/2000 8:50:00 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi he was more like Jokem Piper, maybe he was suffering from some kind of battle fatigue from too long on eastern front. Computer AI in Wild Bills Motherland campaign battle one handles armour better!!! Did anyone else notice a complete lack of infantry on both sides? Has anyone ever seen the movie "Zero" it has to be my all time favorite funny war movie (they were serious) my favorite line "This war kills every body" ------------------ I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a differant direction!

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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

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Post #: 11
- 10/9/2000 9:05:00 AM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		Never saw "Zero" Mogami. I'll look for it. The movie "Stalingrad," Jackk, I think you can get it from Critic Choice video. They have always given me good service. My copy was a gift from a gamer. I did not even know about the movie. Mine is in German with US subtitles, and very, very brutal. You see Stalingrad in all its horror on the level of a small German infantry unit. ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games

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Wild Bill Wilder
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Post #: 12
- 10/9/2000 9:09:00 AM   
Tankhead

 

Posts: 1352
Joined: 6/21/2000
From: Yukon Territory Canada
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Wild Bill: Never saw "Zero" Mogami. I'll look for it. The movie "Stalingrad," Jackk, I think you can get it from Critic Choice video. They have always given me good service. My copy was a gift from a gamer. I did not even know about the movie. Mine is in German with US subtitles, and very, very brutal. You see Stalingrad in all its horror on the level of a small German infantry unit.
Hi Wild Bill! I have the same copy of Stalingrad, very good movie. I also have a newer version in English, also a very good movie. Tankhead ------------------ Rick Cloutier [email]rcclout@telusplanet.net[/email] Coordinator: Tankhead's SPWAW Resources http://tankhead.home.icq.com

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Tankhead


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Post #: 13
- 10/9/2000 9:18:00 AM   
Desert Fox

 

Posts: 171
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Ohio, that is all I can say.
Status: offline 		But perhaps the most glaring discrepency in 'Battle of the Bulge' was that the Germans were attempting to capture an American fuel depot intact. On the surface that seems perfectly fine, and you would question why I don't like that. But then realize that German armor ran on diesel, and US armor ran on gasoline. Gasoline in a diesel engine causes some problems. And yeah, the total lack of infantry is horrible, considering that it was foot engineers that really stopped the German advance. (Those damned engineers!) But, at least Hollywood put in germans disguised as American MPs. That was about the only thing right in that movie.

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Post #: 14
- 10/9/2000 7:41:00 AM   
Toey

 

Posts: 82
Joined: 4/10/2000
From: Melbounre
Status: offline 		I saw the English version of Stalingrad about 12 months ago. I got very confused with who was who in squad. It was a tragic story. However, the ambush of the soviet armour was one of the best battle scenes I have ever seen.

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Post #: 15
- 10/9/2000 7:43:00 AM   
Toey

 

Posts: 82
Joined: 4/10/2000
From: Melbounre
Status: offline 		Hey check out the time of my post. 8:49pm. That's not right. It moved this thread from first spot to 7th. What's going on?

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Post #: 16
- 10/9/2000 10:06:00 AM   
degen


Posts: 166
Joined: 9/8/2000
From: California
Status: offline 		There was some infantry at the beginning of the movie of Battle of the Bulge. How could you guys forget Bronson and Fonda trying to hold off the wave of German tanks? That was a classic scene of infantry routed and overrun by tanks. What was Bronson's line, "Take cover, make stand!" With only a few bazookas and green troops they did not last long. The other good infantry vs. tank scene was the german attack on the fortifed town. The american infantry actually put a pretty good fight and bloodied the german tanks.

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Post #: 17
- 10/9/2000 10:44:00 AM   
Randy

 

Posts: 1172
Joined: 8/22/2000
From: Torrance, Calif. USA
Status: offline 		Its a good thing that Henry Fonda was there to order the blowing up of the fuel depot. He won the battle from a Piper Cub! Semper Fi Randy

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Randy

The United States Marines: America's 911 Force-The Tip of the Spear

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Post #: 18
- 10/9/2000 11:41:00 AM   
Fredde

 

Posts: 498
Joined: 6/7/2000
From: Goteborg, Sweden
Status: offline 		Want to see realistic war movies? Have a look at the Finnish ones "Winter War" and "The unknown soldier". The latter even better than the former.

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"If infantry is the Queen of the battlefield, artillery is her backbone", Jukka L. Mäkelä about the Finnish victory at Ihantala.

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Post #: 19
- 10/9/2000 9:07:00 PM   
Kluckenbill

 

Posts: 278
Joined: 6/7/2000
From: Lancaster, PA, USA
Status: offline 		The best (only good) part of 'Battle of the Bulge' was the rendition of the Panzerleid. Also I believe that the Tigers in 'Kelly's Heroes' were well done modifications to T34's much like in 'Saving Pvt Ryan.' Does anyone know how the made the Marder in Pvt Ryan? I thought that was really cool.

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Post #: 20
- 10/9/2000 10:01:00 PM   
Heartland

 

Posts: 105
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Karlstad, Värmland, Sweden, Europe
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Kluckenbill: Also I believe that the Tigers in 'Kelly's Heroes' were well done modifications to T34's much like in 'Saving Pvt Ryan.'
Didn't they use the Leopard to portray the Tiger in some movie? I distinctly remember someone mentioning this somewhere, and how much the Leopard design takes from the Tiger. Personally I think the coolest tank movie is "The Beast" featuring a Soviet (T-55, if I remember correctly) tank getting lost in Afghanistan with it's nasty commander refusing to leave the tank behind. Way cool.

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Post #: 21
- 10/9/2000 10:15:00 PM   
Fuerte

 

Posts: 314
Joined: 6/14/2000
From: Helsinki Finland
Status: offline 		I saw The Beast in a Finnish movie channel a while back. It was ok, nothing spectacular. Didn't like much the political message. If I remember correctly, it was the only tank in that movie.

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Post #: 22
- 10/11/2000 2:29:00 AM   
Grumble

 

Posts: 471
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Omaha, NE, USA
Status: offline 		The best part of the movie, historically, is the beginning where the intel officer is alone is saying that the Indications & Warnings are there for a German attack. IRL, he was considered to be a typically weird "intel-type" and was ignored. Robert Shaw I think it was was the German commander, and yes he was supposed to be Peiper. Although he was against having Tiger IIs assigned-too slow and heavy, and Stavelot depot was NOT an assigned objective. Speaking of SPR though, I heard Spielberg/Hanks were going to do a Bastogne Movie. Anyone heard anything about it?

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Post #: 23
- 10/11/2000 2:41:00 AM   
Toey

 

Posts: 82
Joined: 4/10/2000
From: Melbounre
Status: offline 		Grumble, I haven't heard anything about Bastogne, but there is a TV series or something coming out soon about WW2 - Brothers in Arms or something. Another Speilberg WW2 movie of the same caliber as SPR would be awesome.

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Post #: 24
- 10/11/2000 2:41:00 AM   
Toey

 

Posts: 82
Joined: 4/10/2000
From: Melbounre
Status: offline 		OOPS double post! [This message has been edited by Toey (edited October 10, 2000).]

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Post #: 25
- 10/11/2000 3:00:00 AM   
Tombstone

 

Posts: 764
Joined: 6/1/2000
From: Los Angeles, California
Status: offline 		In when When Trumpets Fade, the german assault guns were churchills (not mk VIII cause of short barrel) I think. Didn't they have a StuH 42 in Saving Private Ryan?? Tomo

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Post #: 26
- 10/11/2000 3:15:00 AM   
gdpsnake

 

Posts: 786
Joined: 8/7/2000
From: Kempner, TX
Status: offline 		Anybody remember the movie 'Iron Cross' with James Coburn as the German Sergeant? I thought some of the battle scenes in that were good.

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Post #: 27
- 10/11/2000 3:54:00 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		"Cross OF Iron" a Sam Peckinpaugh classic were you die in slow motion. James Colburn is Cpl Steiner (later Sgt) "I hate all stinking officers" James Mason is the Regt Commander Max Snell the company commander David Warner the company adjudant. My favorite line "Dirt and the right combitnation of body oils will make you water proof" It takes place during the retreat from the caucisus(sic) after Stalingrad. ------------------ I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a differant direction!

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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

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Post #: 28
- 10/11/2000 4:21:00 AM   
Leibstandarte

 

Posts: 122
Joined: 6/19/2000
From: Austin, TX USA
Status: offline 		Fredrik Rask, Actually the tank in the movie "The Beast" was an Isreali Ti-67. They captured a whole bunch of Soviet built, Syrian crewed tanks in battle. They then removed the 115mm gun and replaced it with a 105mm NATO standart rifled gun. Also they replaced the crappy Soviet engine with a French Panard engine. As you probably all ready know the Israelis have quite a knack for getting the most out of combat vehicle. They still have a few old Sherman chassies in use. Excellent, excellent armored force in my opinion. ------------------ Cavalry Trooper (8th US) and Grandson of a Leibstandarte Tanker.

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Post #: 29
- 10/11/2000 7:42:00 AM   
Major Ed

 

Posts: 51
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Jackson, MS USA
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Toey: Grumble, I haven't heard anything about Bastogne, but there is a TV series or something coming out soon about WW2 - Brothers in Arms or something. Another Speilberg WW2 movie of the same caliber as SPR would be awesome.
I've heard that Tom Hanks is involved in making a movie from the book - "Band of Brothers: E Co. 506 Regiment, 101st Airborne- From Normand to Hitler's Eagles Nest". The book was written by Stephen E. Ambrose. I haven't read it myself but I here the book is really good. Hope the movie will do it justice. " The critical factor for the small unit on the battlefield is its power to generate violence." -- Maj. Chris Keeble, The Parachute Regiment

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