how do I win battles ?

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [American Civil War] >> Gary Grigsby's War Between the States >> how do I win battles ?

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how do I win battles ? - 10/5/2008 9:35:56 PM

spruce

Posts: 404
Joined: 9/23/2006
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Newbee game - as CSA.

I had Memphis being transformed into level 1 fort - I had about 50.000 troops there. Comes Grant with 80.000 and he defeats me with staggering odds. I lose 15.000 men and he loses 5000. I had to abandon Memphis. I had Johnston as TC - he was in Nashville - I hope he connected with Polk in Memphis, Polk was my AC.

Why did I lose Memphis ? And why with those odds ?

The problem with the game is that things happen and it's hard to understand why.

Is it because Grant had a fleet of gunboat and I hadn't ?

< Message edited by spruce -- 10/5/2008 9:36:49 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: how do I win battles ? - 10/5/2008 9:43:48 PM

Toby42

Posts: 1626
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: Central Florida
Status: offline

I still haven't figured out why things work or won't with this game. You have to dot too many I's and cross too many T's to get this thing to work properly. That's why I've pretty much given up on it!

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Post #: 2

RE: how do I win battles ? - 10/5/2008 9:47:28 PM

spruce

Posts: 404
Joined: 9/23/2006
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Hm, perhaps it would be nice to know why I lost this battle in the first place.

I had a fair reaction force, about 1/3 of total troops. But the rest of them should be in the fortress - or what ?

I also read that Polk had a -1 army modifier. What is that - and were can you see that ?

< Message edited by spruce -- 10/5/2008 9:49:11 PM >

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Post #: 3

RE: how do I win battles ? - 10/6/2008 12:47:51 AM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

Spruce,

You have to read the combat section in the manual a few times and then look at the combat details for each battle for a while to follow along with exactly _why_ battles turn out as they do. In short, if you and your opponent have both done everything right, the battles will be pretty even. But if one side is lacking in scouting, leadership, experience, training, etc. there can be some decisive battles.

Grant is a better Attacker (4) than Polk is a Defender (3). If Polk also has a -1 Army Mod (I'll take your word for it, I don't remember) then that means Polk effectively defends as a 2 instead of a 3. That's big disadvantage right off the bat in terms of the outcome of the battle. In addition, Grant adds slightly more to the combat rolls for each unit he's helping, which in and of itself is not decisive but if he's also got better subordinates than Polk did then it can add up. Finally, if one side (Polk) was scouted and the other (Grant) was not properly scouted, that can swing the odds and losses significantly.

Regards,

- Erik

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Post #: 4

RE: how do I win battles ? - 10/6/2008 4:48:46 AM

PyleDriver

Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
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Most battles, come down to 2 things. Leadership as Erik said, but really it's knowing what they have, and not letting them know what you have. So Cav is really the whole game here. If your not using them to scout/screen all the time you will lose battles.

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Post #: 5

RE: how do I win battles ? - 10/6/2008 8:14:16 AM

Doc o War

Posts: 345
Joined: 8/14/2008
From: Northern California
Status: offline

Scouting and leadership- that is the game here- these battles we fight are actually campaign moves that stretch over days and weeks that make up a month. All the bonuses- for scouting- for supply- for leadership- the types of troops you have- the terrain you are in- all add up. Pause the end battle report you get next time and click on the detailed report- look at each combat between the units- you will see listed all the modifiers to the dice rolls and the final outcome. There are big differences in outcomes because of these things.

And to those of you who are trying to get the hang of these things- there is a big patch coming that is going to put right many of the problems that have become clear in the process- this game is going to shine- so hang in there with it Trench Rats- you will not be disappointed with the results.

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Post #: 6

RE: how do I win battles ? - 10/6/2008 1:02:44 PM

GShock

Posts: 1245
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: San Francisco, CA - USA
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Main issues: Leadership, MIL/INF ratio, Scouting, Initiative, Number of guns committed.

If you don't know about these things, you will certainly be frustrated with playing wbts. It's not hard to understand but you must read it a bit....now, putting it into practice is the hard thing to do!

I'm sure these forums will be very helpful, Treale and Spruce. There's a mine of information, tips and suggestions.

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RE: how do I win battles ? - 10/6/2008 9:55:11 PM

spruce

Posts: 404
Joined: 9/23/2006
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The problem is that I've read the manual about 5 times. I'm starting to get a hang to it - the only things I totally DON'T understand are movement and strategic movement. I'm just hitting some buttons and the manual isn't that clear all togehter. Perhaps I'll redo the video tutorials. IF anybody could summarise tac and strat movement - I would be very helpfull.

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Post #: 8

RE: how do I win battles ? - 10/6/2008 10:38:07 PM

Doc o War

Posts: 345
Joined: 8/14/2008
From: Northern California
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Tac move- on foot - is the number on the actual counter- in regions- usually 1/2/or 3/more or if a leader 8- when you are moving tactically it is a green arrow. When stacked with a leader who gets initiative the� number of regions you can move a unit too on foot increases. The number on the leader counter with the brigades attached ( each point is a brigade) increases with initiative. The type of terrain and roads and rivers you cross and entering enemy territory all have a cost- See the charts for that.
�If you move Strat- it is a blue arrow- and takes�rail or boat transport points- each region or boat has a transport capacity listed for its rails and transport availability- as units pass by they reduce that total- eventually the rail net and the boat net run out and you can no longer use them that turn, leaders move freely at first- but if you move too many units across the rails and use up the transport capacity�even the leaders wont be able to use them- so move your leaders first.
� Once your transport capacity is used up everyone else walks that turn. It resets each turn.
�� Doing certain actions- attaching and detaching brigades, moving tactically- will burn up too many move points and you may not then be able to move them further. Dont forget you have an undue move arrow in the Sidebar if you move something you shouldnt.
� Sometimes when you move a unit it pops up with an opportunity fire box- say no- unless you really wish them to be killed- which they will get- op fire can be deadly. It is triggered by a Tac move- say no and push/hold the Control key next- it will change your move to a strat move and the blue arrow course will be taken- which is the strat move. Sometimes there is no way to move into a region, by strat or by tac. That is because all the move costs add up to more than you have- the screen helps by highlighting regions you can move into.
� You can only move strat move into regions you already control. Only tac move will allow you to enter enemy or neutral territory.
�� I hope this was what you were asking.

< Message edited by Doc o War -- 10/6/2008 10:41:26 PM >

_____________________________

Tell me the story of the common foot soldier, and I will tell you the story of all wars.
... Heroditus.

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Post #: 9

RE: how do I win battles ? - 10/6/2008 10:42:50 PM

Toby42

Posts: 1626
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: Central Florida
Status: offline

I pretty much understand the game functions and what needs to be done to be sucessful at it. But I don't want to "Bake the Cake", I just want to eat it!!! I'm not downing the game. It is well done, but too involved in all aspects of fighting the war for me. That's just my taste. I guess that I just enjoy simpler things.

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Post #: 10

RE: how do I win battles ? - 10/6/2008 11:08:05 PM

spruce

Posts: 404
Joined: 9/23/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doc o War

Tac move- on foot - is the number on the actual counter- in regions- usually 1/2/or 3/more or if a leader 8- when you are moving tactically it is a green arrow. When stacked with a leader who gets initiative the� number of regions you can move a unit too on foot increases. The number on the leader counter with the brigades attached ( each point is a brigade) increases with initiative. The type of terrain and roads and rivers you cross and entering enemy territory all have a cost- See the charts for that.
�If you move Strat- it is a blue arrow- and takes�rail or boat transport points- each region or boat has a transport capacity listed for its rails and transport availability- as units pass by they reduce that total- eventually the rail net and the boat net run out and you can no longer use them that turn, leaders move freely at first- but if you move too many units across the rails and use up the transport capacity�even the leaders wont be able to use them- so move your leaders first.
� Once your transport capacity is used up everyone else walks that turn. It resets each turn.
�� Doing certain actions- attaching and detaching brigades, moving tactically- will burn up too many move points and you may not then be able to move them further. Dont forget you have an undue move arrow in the Sidebar if you move something you shouldnt.
� Sometimes when you move a unit it pops up with an opportunity fire box- say no- unless you really wish them to be killed- which they will get- op fire can be deadly. It is triggered by a Tac move- say no and push/hold the Control key next- it will change your move to a strat move and the blue arrow course will be taken- which is the strat move. Sometimes there is no way to move into a region, by strat or by tac. That is because all the move costs add up to more than you have- the screen helps by highlighting regions you can move into.
� You can only move strat move into regions you already control. Only tac move will allow you to enter enemy or neutral territory.
�� I hope this was what you were asking.

yes, but it's still chinese to me - movement points - I have to check on that. Mm, perhaps I redo the tutorial on movement. I didn't understand the tutorila neither, perhaps I get it now.

(in reply to Doc o War)

Post #: 11

RE: how do I win battles ? - 10/7/2008 2:21:56 AM

wargamer123

Posts: 278
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline

First off, Grant is good. With 80,000 men vs your little rabble what do you expect? That's close to 2 to 1 odds... What you want to win an offensive battle...Historically the South lost roughly in that region and you should too. Now as far as delaying it a little longer or evening the odds you can at a cost. I notice these things with new CSA players including myself as mistakes.

Leaving Lee in the East. Appointing low end Army Commanders. Not Covering your units with enough protective Cav screens.

It's possible if Sherman/Grant are in Tennessee you can put 2 or 3 4/4/4 commanders in the West and actually hold the ground, I doubt you can take much because you will always be outnumbered usually about 80,000 to 50,000 and sometimes worse. The Union if wise will have a lot of Cannons and will own the Rivers so you are in peril.... You must bid your time, retreat and do your best to counter attack when you can. With these good Commanders placed in the right strategic choke holds you can hold the River Valleys well into '63 which is doing well!

Now there is another point, the game has dice, 'chance'. So who wins isn't always the biggest and baddest.. Usually is all...

Oh and another point, beware moving all your good men West, it may be your peril in the east...........

The game is complex but once you've mastered it's idiosyncrosies you should be able to do a lot

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Post #: 12

RE: how do I win battles ? - 10/7/2008 10:11:51 PM

spruce

Posts: 404
Joined: 9/23/2006
Status: offline

About dice - a dic decides one battle - but in the longer term it changes nothing.

It's all about tactics and strategy, and often luck. But I'm still starting to understand the whole thing.

About movement, I re-did the tutorials, and now they are much more clear !

(in reply to wargamer123)

Post #: 13

RE: how do I win battles ? - 10/9/2008 6:38:46 PM

Treefrog