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Fill her up! - 10/12/2008 5:53:34 PM   
Prince of Eckmühl


Posts: 2459
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		The particulars of this will mean absolutely nothing to anyone outside of the USA, but I paid $2.78.9 per gallon for a tank of gas this morning in Leander, TX. Happy days are here again?

PoE (aka ivanmoe)

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RE: Fill her up! - 10/12/2008 6:04:29 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		Happy days will be when it's below $2 again. Just over $3 around here.

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Post #: 2
RE: Fill her up! - 10/12/2008 6:24:42 PM   
noxious


Posts: 177
Joined: 6/13/2008
From: Montreal, Qc, Canuckistan
Status: offline 		It's messed up : your economy is tanking but it's our dollar that's dwindling (Canuck), thanks it seems to it being tightly linked to oil prices these days.... :(

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RE: Fill her up! - 10/12/2008 6:35:12 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
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From: Denmark
Status: offline 		The fall in the oil price is NOT a good sign. It's due to the crashing halt that the global economy is coming to.

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Post #: 4
RE: Fill her up! - 10/12/2008 6:44:52 PM   
pad152

 

Posts: 2871
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Status: offline 		If the stock market drops another 25% next week we're headed for the big D!

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Post #: 5
RE: Fill her up! - 10/12/2008 6:55:46 PM   
06 Maestro


Posts: 3989
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: Nevada, USA
Status: offline 		You Texans got it made.  A few months ago I was paying 5.00 a gallon for diesel-with a 35 gallon tank (16MPG in town), a tirp to the gas station was not a hppy event.  It has now come back down to 3.70.  I remember when it was .27 cents.

BTW, anyone have an idea as to why diesel should cost more than gas?  Seems like a scam to me.

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Post #: 6
RE: Fill her up! - 10/12/2008 7:12:58 PM   
Prince of Eckmühl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro

BTW, anyone have an idea as to why diesel should cost more than gas?  Seems like a scam to me.



Obviously, there's an enormous demand for it.

Stuff that used to be shipped by rail is on eighteen-wheelers, now.

Also, there are refinery-capacity constraints in the USA, relative to domestic demand, and foreign markets (China) can't (or couldn't) get enough of the stuff.

It's also worth noting that the US normally doesn't permit imports of petroleum distillates, which drives the price up, further.


PoE (aka ivanmoe)


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Post #: 7
RE: Fill her up! - 10/12/2008 7:36:33 PM   
06 Maestro


Posts: 3989
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: Nevada, USA
Status: offline 		POE

I recognize the basic truths to your points, however, the situation still is odd. For many decades (except WW2) the U.S. oil companies maintained surplus production capacity. That was during times of huge increases of domestic use. To my knowledge, diesel was always cheaper. I am certainly not an expert, but it seems likely that you can get much more diesel from a barrel of oil than you can gasoline from a barrel of oil.

I know that diesel demand has increased, but it seemed predictable that this would occur. It appears that the oil companies have intentionally let production (comparatively to gas) lag so as to maximize profits on an item that is cheaper for them to produce. either that, or the current bosses are just not as savvy as the oil bosses of years gone by.

It also seems to me that diesel is a much more efficient fuel. If I am correct, then it should have priority on production expansion-not the other way around.

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RE: Fill her up! - 10/12/2008 7:42:49 PM   
sol_invictus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152

If the stock market drops another 25% next week we're headed for the big D!



Maybe, but at least we can all use cheap gas in order to drive to our local soup kitchen.


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RE: Fill her up! - 10/12/2008 8:03:59 PM   
Greybriar


Posts: 1148
Joined: 2/9/2007
Status: offline 		I remember during the days of the gas wars when gasoline sold for as little as 12.9 cents per gallon. Diesel was even cheaper. Of course a dollar back then was worth at least ten times as much as it is today.

What would have happened if the independent oil companies hadn't been put out of business and there were still gas wars?

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Post #: 10
RE: Fill her up! - 10/12/2008 8:12:46 PM   
BoredStiff

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greybriar

I remember during the days of the gas wars when gasoline sold for as little as 12.9 cents per gallon. Diesel was even cheaper. Of course a dollar back then was worth at least ten times as much as it is today.

What would have happened if the independent oil companies hadn't been put out of business and there were still gas wars?



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Post #: 11
RE: Fill her up! - 10/12/2008 8:23:17 PM   
NefariousKoel


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Status: offline 		It's been $2.49 per gallon here for awhile now.  

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RE: Fill her up! - 10/12/2008 8:43:03 PM   
Prince of Eckmühl


Posts: 2459
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From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro

POE

I recognize the basic truths to your points, however, the situation still is odd. For many decades (except WW2) the U.S. oil companies maintained surplus production capacity. That was during times of huge increases of domestic use. To my knowledge, diesel was always cheaper. I am certainly not an expert, but it seems likely that you can get much more diesel from a barrel of oil than you can gasoline from a barrel of oil.

I know that diesel demand has increased, but it seemed predictable that this would occur. It appears that the oil companies have intentionally let production (comparatively to gas) lag so as to maximize profits on an item that is cheaper for them to produce. either that, or the current bosses are just not as savvy as the oil bosses of years gone by.

It also seems to me that diesel is a much more efficient fuel. If I am correct, then it should have priority on production expansion-not the other way around.


There are these industrial facilities called oil refineries, many of which have the ability to produce diesel fuel, but not necessarily at the same volume as they produce other fuels, like gasoline or heating-oil. The parts of the refinery that produce gasoline, for instance, are not the same parts that produce diesel. The only way that a refiner is gonna be able to produce more end-product is to expand it's diesel-refining capacity. They can't just flip a switch and produce diesel from the same equimpment with which they produce gasoline.

You are right to be circumspect about the situation, because refiners could indeed convert more of the plant's hardware to diesel production. They don't do so, because they make more money off of diesel than gasoline. Again, the fact that the US has been exporting diesel, most notably to China, and normally limits all imports of distillates exacerbates the problem.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)

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Post #: 13
RE: Fill her up! - 10/12/2008 8:45:35 PM   
andym


Posts: 1117
Joined: 7/12/2006
From: Kings Lynn UK
Status: offline 		Welcome to the real World of High Fuel prices,we have been paying more than this for ages.It hurts doesnt it?

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Post #: 14
RE: Fill her up! - 10/12/2008 9:04:36 PM   
06 Maestro


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quote:

ORIGINAL: andym

Welcome to the real World of High Fuel prices,we have been paying more than this for ages.It hurts doesnt it?

It would be interesting to see the actual breakdown in costs. It is my impression that Europeans pay much more for fuel due to taxes-not the actual cost of the fuel.

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Post #: 15
RE: Fill her up! - 10/12/2008 9:05:51 PM   
andym


Posts: 1117
Joined: 7/12/2006
From: Kings Lynn UK
Status: offline 		around 75% is all duty or tax.

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Post #: 16
RE: Fill her up! - 10/12/2008 9:29:34 PM   
06 Maestro


Posts: 3989
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From: Nevada, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: andym

around 75% is all duty or tax.


The UK should be paradise on earth with such taxes.

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Post #: 17
RE: Fill her up! - 10/12/2008 9:45:02 PM   
sabre1


Posts: 1928
Joined: 8/15/2001
From: CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arinvald


quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152

If the stock market drops another 25% next week we're headed for the big D!



Maybe, but at least we can all use cheap gas in order to drive to our local soup kitchen.




+1 on that

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Post #: 18
RE: Fill her up! - 10/12/2008 11:16:54 PM   
Goblin


Posts: 5547
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Erie,Pa. USA
Status: offline
quote:

Why are diesel fuel prices higher than gasoline prices?


Historically, the average price of diesel fuel has been lower than the average price of gasoline. However, this is not always the case. In some winters where the demand for distillate heating oil is high, the price of diesel fuel has risen above the gasoline price. Since September 2004, the price of diesel fuel has been generally higher than the price of regular gasoline all year round for several reasons. Worldwide demand for diesel fuel and other distillate fuel oils has been increasing steadily, with strong demand in China, Europe, and the United States, putting more pressure on the tight global refining capacity. In the United States, the transition to ultra-low-sulfur diesel fuel has affected diesel fuel production and distribution costs. Also, the Federal excise tax on diesel fuel is 6 cents higher per gallon (24.4 cents per gallon) than the tax on gasoline.


http://www.eia.doe.gov/bookshelf/brochures/diesel/

Dunno how accurate this is, just found the site.


Goblin


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Post #: 19
RE: Fill her up! - 10/13/2008 3:17:13 AM   
GJK


Posts: 554
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Status: offline 		Leander? Hell, you're a stones throw away - I'm in Georgetown. Let me know if you want to get together for some tabletop board wargaming some time!

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Post #: 20
RE: Fill her up! - 10/13/2008 3:34:40 AM   
Gil R.


Posts: 10821
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

The fall in the oil price is NOT a good sign. It's due to the crashing halt that the global economy is coming to.



A few months ago there were various experts (plus the King of Saudi Arabia) claiming that the surge in the price of crude oil was a bubble. I'm not qualified to know if that's true, but at the time it seemed very plausible, so I'd think that part of the rapid drop in price is from the bubble being burst by the financial meltdown. Plus I believe that prices tend to drop around this time of year, anyway.


< Message edited by Gil R. -- 10/13/2008 3:35:03 AM >

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Post #: 21
RE: Fill her up! - 10/13/2008 4:09:17 AM   
06 Maestro


Posts: 3989
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: Nevada, USA
Status: offline 		A year or two ago, the government (US) changed the rules for banks/investment groups to trade in oil futures. It was not legal for some firms to engage in that market. It was thought that European groups had an unfair advantage in making profits, so the rules were changed.

It seems reasonable that the surge of speculative cash from America had something to do with the price increases. At the hight of the oil price boom, I read that the prices were not sustainable, and the real value was about 60 to 70 dollars per barrel. In the long term, it no doubt will go up, but there was no real reason for such a price increase as what we just suffered.

There are already technologies for producing fuel (ready to burn diesel) from farm wast (not bio fuel from food) and another system which uses a microbe, sunlight, and water to produce any kind of petroleum product. In time, OPEC countries can keep their oil-we won't need it anymore. All these technologies need is investment, and for people like AL Gore to lighten up a bit on ithe use of nternal combustion engines.

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Post #: 22
RE: Fill her up! - 10/13/2008 8:42:41 AM   
doomtrader


Posts: 5321
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Poland
Status: offline 		Just wanna tell you alll, that here in Poland (in Europe) we are paying around 2.10$ per liter, which is like 7.50$ per gallon.
But I remember when I take a trip to CA (living in CO) and I was upset when I have to pay over 2$ per gallon.

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RE: Fill her up! - 10/13/2008 11:34:30 AM   
Grell

 

Posts: 1064
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From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: doomtrader

Just wanna tell you alll, that here in Poland (in Europe) we are paying around 2.10$ per liter, which is like 7.50$ per gallon.
But I remember when I take a trip to CA (living in CO) and I was upset when I have to pay over 2$ per gallon.


7.50 a gallon, my lord, that's crazy.

Regards,

Grell

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Post #: 24
RE: Fill her up! - 10/13/2008 3:19:48 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
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From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Well, it's round about that here too. Ans the drop in oil prices is NOT being passed on by the rip off merchants that are petrol companies. Still paying £1.10 - £1.15 which is around $2 a litre...$8 a gallon if you will.

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Post #: 25
RE: Fill her up! - 10/13/2008 7:16:51 PM   
06 Maestro


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Well, it's round about that here too. Ans the drop in oil prices is NOT being passed on by the rip off merchants that are petrol companies. Still paying £1.10 - £1.15 which is around $2 a litre...$8 a gallon if you will.



From an above post I can assume you would still be paying 6 bucks a gallon even if the oil companies gave the fuel for free. That seems like a bigger problem there. Who regulates the regulators? Here, I would say it is the press, but more accurately, whomever owns the "press".

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Post #: 26
RE: Fill her up! - 10/13/2008 7:39:09 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NefariousKoel

It's been $2.49 per gallon here for awhile now.  

Good for you! In Finland price of gas is about as much, but it's in €uros (1,3639 USD) per liter!

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Post #: 27
RE: Fill her up! - 10/14/2008 11:57:43 AM   
doomtrader


Posts: 5321
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Poland
Status: offline 		Price of gas in Poland icludes something like 60-65% of taxes (VAT, excise, road, don't_know_what_else), so it might be much more cheaper.

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Post #: 28
RE: Fill her up! - 10/14/2008 2:16:25 PM   
Prince of Eckmühl


Posts: 2459
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quote:

ORIGINAL: doomtrader

Price of gas in Poland icludes something like 60-65% of taxes (VAT, excise, road, don't_know_what_else), so it might be much more cheaper.


I suspect that fuel taxes will be increased dramatically in the USA in 2009. The legislative rationale will be couched in environmental concerns, to fund alternative fuels, and discourage use of petroleum-based products. I supposed that'd be a good thing, but I suspect that most of the money will simply go to fund more government.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)

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Post #: 29
RE: Fill her up! - 10/14/2008 2:47:13 PM   
doomtrader


Posts: 5321
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From: Poland
Status: offline 		AFAIK it is completly stupid to obey those environmentalists.
Average SUV makes less toxin than one of those motorbikes seen at the streets in India or China.


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