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Matrix: Any old school RPG's in the making? - 10/17/2008 6:01:57 AM

sapper_astro

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Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Matrix sort of the spiritual successor to SSI? If so, has Matrix ever thought of getting some old school RPG's in works, with some nice turn based tactical combat like, say, wizards crown or the goldbox games?

The RPG's coming out now are incredibly boring when it comes to many things, in particular combat models, and I think there would be a large niche out there that would enjoy some modern games along similar lines as the RPG's SSI used to come out with, games with turn based combat models and plenty of details.

Has this been thought about before?

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RE: Matrix: Any old school RPG's in the making? - 10/17/2008 11:51:32 AM

Perturabo

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You mean something like indie cRPGs but with development financed by a publisher like in good old times?

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RE: Matrix: Any old school RPG's in the making? - 10/17/2008 12:53:11 PM

cdbeck

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I am 100% for this. I regard the old Gold Box games (Pools of Radiance, Buck Rodgers in the 25th Century - a little know, yet awesome future one, Unlimited Adventures - an awesome construction kit) as being some of the ultimate in small squad tactical wargaming. Sure, these are RPGs, but you had to manage your supplies (ammo, wand cahrges, scrolls, potions), outmanuever (flank, backstab), and deploy artillery and medical aid (wizards and priests with their spells). It is stunning how DnD actually translates well to modern warfare terms - Fighters are your frontline grunts, rangers are your snipers, rogues are your special ops, wizards are your long range artillery (they break morale, control crowds, and inflict splash damages), priests are your medical, logistics, and morale officers.

So, lets gets some tactical RPG love. I have constanly been harping on the need to move away from WWII...

Besides, most of us here are old enough to remember when Ultima was a squad, turned based game, when RPG meant heavy stats, turned based combat, and drawing your own grid-based map, and when FPS ONLY MEANT frames-per-second.

SoM

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RE: Matrix: Any old school RPG's in the making? - 10/17/2008 12:59:24 PM

Terminus

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Ahhh, the good old days of Gold Box games...

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RE: Matrix: Any old school RPG's in the making? - 10/17/2008 1:19:14 PM

sapper_astro

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

You mean something like indie cRPGs but with development financed by a publisher like in good old times?

If need be. Not one of these emo, full on story games with shiney graphics, but something clean, streamlined with some dialogue, some choices to be made, questing...and brilliant tactical party based combat, just like the goldbox games (including BR. Excellent games), Wizards crown, Ultima 5, Knights of Legend. Pick your poison basically.

Wizards crown had more indepth combat, as did Knights of legend, but the Goldies had great tactical battles that were well balanced and challenging. For the life of me I cannot find anything but First Person shooter RPG's now, and the few indies on the market mostly have, at best, simple and second rate Turn based tactical combat (think spiderweb software games).

A handful of guys, a few PC's and a garage. Usually had one or two a year carved out for RPG enthusiasts. If wargames can do it, why not RPG's? I would almost think the market would actually be bigger or at least along similar lines, with a lot of cross blending like us here.

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RE: Matrix: Any old school RPG's in the making? - 10/17/2008 1:20:12 PM

Greybriar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Ahhh, the good old days of Gold Box games...

Oh, yes indeed! It was SSI's Gold Box series that got me hooked on PC games. I will never forget spending countless hours playing Pool of Radiance on my old 8 MHz XT.

If anyone is interested, I would be willing to part with my entire Gold Box collection for a tidy sum.

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RE: Matrix: Any old school RPG's in the making? - 10/17/2008 1:21:56 PM

sapper_astro

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greybriar

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Ahhh, the good old days of Gold Box games...

Oh, yes indeed! It was SSI's Gold Box series that got me hooked on PC games. I will never forget spending countless hours playing Pool of Radiance on my old 8 MHz XT.

If anyone is interested, I would be willing to part with my entire Gold Box collection for a tidy sum.

Nice try

I already have my own copies, and the dosbox set up to play them and other oldies. We need some new stuff though, even updated oldies would be better than nothing.

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RE: Matrix: Any old school RPG's in the making? - 10/17/2008 1:23:27 PM

RedArgo

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I see Bioware is making a new RPG called Dragon Age which they call the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate (I think Atari has the rights to BG now). It looks like it has lots of fancy camera angles and graphics, but who knows if the game will be any good.

I spent a lot of time on those old SSI rpgs. I think my favorite for it's time was Wizard's Crown. Then all the D&D ones came out later. They were a lot of fun.

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RE: Matrix: Any old school RPG's in the making? - 10/17/2008 1:26:44 PM

sapper_astro

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedArgo

I see Bioware is making a new RPG called Dragon Age which they call the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate (I think Atari has the rights to BG now). It looks like it has lots of fancy camera angles and graphics, but who knows if the game will be any good.

I spent a lot of time on those old SSI rpgs. I think my favorite for it's time was Wizard's Crown. Then all the D&D ones came out later. They were a lot of fun.

I am guessing that it will be similar in many respects to the other RPG's on the market. And it certainly won't have any sort of tactical combat to speak of. I don't hate all the newer RPG's, but lets face it, they are all the same and none of them have what you would call challenge or tactics about them.

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RE: Matrix: Any old school RPG's in the making? - 10/17/2008 1:54:09 PM

Perturabo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sapper_astro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

You mean something like indie cRPGs but with development financed by a publisher like in good old times?

If need be. Not one of these emo, full on story games with shiney graphics, but something clean, streamlined with some dialogue, some choices to be made, questing...and brilliant tactical party based combat, just like the goldbox games (including BR. Excellent games), Wizards crown, Ultima 5, Knights of Legend. Pick your poison basically.

Personally, I'd like to see something with stat-dependent dialogues, advanced tactical combat, multiple quest solutions and good Choices & Consequences.

If it's simpler than that, I'm not interested in buying it as simple H&S gameplay are provided by roguelikes for free.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sapper_astro

For the life of me I cannot find anything but First Person shooter RPG's now, and the few indies on the market mostly have, at best, simple and second rate Turn based tactical combat (think spiderweb software games).

I agree. Though they are getting better at the dialogues part. I'd probably buy Geneforge if I wouldn't have to work whole month to be able to buy it.

Generally, I have yet to find a cRPG that would beat Jagged Aliance 2 on tactical combat.

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RE: Matrix: Any old school RPG's in the making? - 10/17/2008 2:45:50 PM

sol_invictus

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I was hoping that Drakensang would fill the need for that golden oldie niche, but from what I am reading, it has come up short. Dragon Age will also disappoint and will be more flash than bang imo. I think it will suffer for the same reason that TES has degenerated over the years; consolization. Meanwhile, JA3 seems to be impossible for anyone to get on the shelves for some reason.

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RE: Matrix: Any old school RPG's in the making? - 10/17/2008 3:13:15 PM

sterckxe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sapper_astro
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Matrix sort of the spiritual successor to SSI?

This little sentence made me stop and think - which is no mean feat, especially the second part - and yes, in a sense they are.

But as with any relatively small-time publisher they just can't resurrect a genre from the dead all by themselves.

What the cRPG genre needs is a garage developer coming up with a working alpha of a game and gathering enough enthusiasts to make developing it into a full-fledged game a sound business decision. I'm not seeing any, and the last publisher I know who went with a Rogue-like design is Shrapnel and it's safe to say that Scallywag wasn't really a huge success despite getting good reviews.

So what we have here is a genre a lot of us remember with fondness - but not enough to support new designs with our buying dollar.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

(in reply to sapper_astro)

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RE: Matrix: Any old school RPG's in the making? - 10/17/2008 3:15:36 PM

Perturabo

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There's always JA2 1.3.

Also, the JA2 source code is available, so anyone who has appropriate programmings skills and is willing to do free work could probably be able to add things like dialogue trees and turn it into a full cRPG.

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RE: Matrix: Any old school RPG's in the making? - 10/17/2008 5:40:28 PM

ilovestrategy

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I miss the games like Ultima 6 and 7.

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RE: Matrix: Any old school RPG's in the making? - 10/17/2008 5:45:51 PM

Kuokkanen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sapper_astro

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Matrix sort of the spiritual successor to SSI? If so, has Matrix ever thought of getting some old school RPG's in works, with some nice turn based tactical combat like, say, wizards crown or the goldbox games?

Gold Box games have already been redone by BioWare and few others. I've seen original Gold Box games in screenshots and maybe even in action, and I'd rather play BioWare's Baldur's Gate than the original...

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RE: Matrix: Any old school RPG's in the making? - 10/17/2008 10:47:07 PM

SireChaos

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

I miss the games like Ultima 6 and 7.

Oh, boy, indeed... well, 6 more than 7, and 5 even more than 6.

But then, I played Ultima 6 on the C64, which involved an ungodly amount of disk-swapping (including twice whenever you had a conversation), so I am suffering from a bit of a trauma there.

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RE: Matrix: Any old school RPG's in the making? - 10/17/2008 11:10:47 PM

ilovestrategy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SireChaos

quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

I miss the games like Ultima 6 and 7.

Oh, boy, indeed... well, 6 more than 7, and 5 even more than 6.

But then, I played Ultima 6 on the C64, which involved an ungodly amount of disk-swapping (including twice whenever you had a conversation), so I am suffering from a bit of a trauma there.

If I was in a coma and someone played the soundtrack from Ultima 6 I would snap out of it....

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RE: Matrix: Any old school RPG's in the making? - 10/17/2008 11:40:31 PM

Phatguy

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The one game that I would love to see remade, or even just face-lifted is Darklands...Still play it once in a while on my old DX-66(both3.5 and 5.25 drives). Keeping it alive(barely)just for darklands but the 5-1/4 inch floppies will die soon..

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RE: Matrix: Any old school RPG's in the making? - 10/17/2008 11:46:30 PM

ilovestrategy

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I wish I still had my DX66. There are some really good games from back then.

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RE: Matrix: Any old school RPG's in the making? - 10/17/2008 11:52:20 PM

Phatguy

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Still have my pentium 75 too..lol

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RE: Matrix: Any old school RPG's in the making? - 10/18/2008 12:43:51 PM

Perturabo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker

The one game that I would love to see remade, or even just face-lifted is Darklands...Still play it once in a while on my old DX-66(both3.5 and 5.25 drives). Keeping it alive(barely)just for darklands but the 5-1/4 inch floppies will die soon..

Why don't you use Dosbox and backup copies?

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RE: Matrix: Any old school RPG's in the making? - 10/18/2008 4:49:38 PM

SireChaos

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

quote:

ORIGINAL: SireChaos

quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

I miss the games like Ultima 6 and 7.

Oh, boy, indeed... well, 6 more than 7, and 5 even more than 6.

But then, I played Ultima 6 on the C64, which involved an ungodly amount of disk-swapping (including twice whenever you had a conversation), so I am suffering from a bit of a trauma there.

If I was in a coma and someone played the soundtrack from Ultima 6 I would snap out of it....

IIRC the C64 version didn�t have soundtrack. I bought the Ultima Collection for PC many years later, and found out how great that soundtrack was. And how good the game was if you could actually play it and not spend half the time switching disks.

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RE: Matrix: Any old school RPG's in the making? - 10/18/2008 5:18:28 PM

Phatguy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

quote:

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker

The one game that I would love to see remade, or even just face-lifted is Darklands...Still play it once in a while on my old DX-66(both3.5 and 5.25 drives). Keeping it alive(barely)just for darklands but the 5-1/4 inch floppies will die soon..

Why don't you use Dosbox and backup copies?

Wouldnt mind, but my copy(originally bought in 1995 for 4 bucks) is the 5.25 version One of the disks is stuck in floppy drive. If I try to remove it just might die. So cant make a backup unless I do the neferious deed and troll the net for a "backup".. Also there are a few games on that old system that I love and dont have the disks anymore so once it dies,games are gone........Plus I enjoy torture. Nothing like Dos 6.2 and win 3.1

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RE: Matrix: Any old school RPG's in the making? - 10/18/2008 10:07:34 PM

cdbeck

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quote:

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker

The one game that I would love to see remade, or even just face-lifted is Darklands...Still play it once in a while on my old DX-66(both3.5 and 5.25 drives). Keeping it alive(barely)just for darklands but the 5-1/4 inch floppies will die soon..

Might I suggest Mount & Blade that is currently being published by Paradox and available at Gamersgate? Darklands was an AWESOME game, and, while Mount & Blade does not include all of the great things within Darklands, I feel like it is the closest thing to an updated Darklands that I have seen in a long long time. You might check out the demo, and see what you think.

One of my favorite things about Darklands was collecting alchemy forumlas and Saints, particularly the saints. I currently study medieval history for a living, and I did my first learning of saintly veneration from that game. Such a cool mechanic!

SoM

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RE: Matrix: Any old school RPG's in the making? - 10/18/2008 11:02:26 PM

SireChaos

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Son_of_Montfort

quote:

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker

The one game that I would love to see remade, or even just face-lifted is Darklands...Still play it once in a while on my old DX-66(both3.5 and 5.25 drives). Keeping it alive(barely)just for darklands but the 5-1/4 inch floppies will die soon..

Might I suggest Mount & Blade that is currently being published by Paradox and available at Gamersgate? Darklands was an AWESOME game, and, while Mount & Blade does not include all of the great things within Darklands, I feel like it is the closest thing to an updated Darklands that I have seen in a long long time. You might check out the demo, and see what you think.

One of my favorite things about Darklands was collecting alchemy forumlas and Saints, particularly the saints. I currently study medieval history for a living, and I did my first learning of saintly veneration from that game. Such a cool mechanic!

SoM

Another very good thing about Mount&Blade is that there are plenty of mods out there. Most can be found on www.mbrepository.com. These include a "Song of Ice and Fire" mod, a "Rome - Total War" mod, one covering Britain after the withdrawal of the Roman Legions, one covering the crusaders of the Teutonic Knights - and, incredibly enough, a rather well-done "Star Wars" mod.

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RE: Matrix: Any old school RPG's in the making? - 10/19/2008 12:04:48 AM

killroyishere

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Buck Rogers is one of my old favorites as I got tired of fantasy swords n shields type play and longed for some sci-fi blast em up but turn based like the gold box series.

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RE: Matrix: Any old school RPG's in the making? - 10/19/2008 3:14:26 AM

NefariousKoel

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Temple of Elemental Evil (from back in '04 or so) had a wonderfully fun combat system. Much better than the BG series.

Too bad it had bugs, but I still played it all the way through and that says a lot coming from me.

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RE: Matrix: Any old school RPG's in the making? - 10/19/2008 4:01:50 AM

Phatguy

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Got the Mount and Blade demo and putzing around with it..Didnt know about the mods..thanks!

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RE: Matrix: Any old school RPG's in the making? - 10/19/2008 4:18:29 AM

Arckon

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I was going to make mention of Temple of Elemental Evil. Also Arcanum by the same developer.

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RE: Matrix: Any old school RPG's in the making? - 10/19/2008 7:14:41 PM

NefariousKoel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arckon

I was going to make mention of Temple of Elemental Evil. Also Arcanum by the same developer.

Yep, the "pieces of eight" mod fixed a few of the bugs too. I'm sure I'll load it up again sometime, just for the combat at least.

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