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Salary & Contract - 10/20/2008 11:38:57 AM   
Mykal


Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/3/2008
Status: offline 		Does any implement salary and contracts
and if you do what system do you use for working out the salary? and how long individual players contracts are?

I could use a good system for my Canadian league
but a system for any league would be good, which I could just modify

Thanks

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RE: Salary & Contract - 10/21/2008 12:38:33 PM   
Mykal


Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/3/2008
Status: offline 		Jeepers,

dont anyone implement Salary and contract ?

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RE: Salary & Contract - 10/21/2008 12:53:04 PM   
Hampe

 

Posts: 54
Joined: 10/15/2008
Status: offline 		I've been working on a model for a salary cap for the league I'm making, since the players I'm using have a contract length, but no defined salary. 


I've been tinkering with it a bit today, and so far it looks to be coming along ok.  The mid tier to below average teams are all under the cap, and the powerhouse teams are almost all over the cap (although I may adjust the cap so that they are at or just under it).


Basically, I defined an arbitrary salary cap figure (1000$).  Then I divided that by the average number of players on the teams (29).  After I had the average salary (34$), I defined what I figured to be the average OVR rating of players in the league. 

My exact values are a little different, but for an example, I'll use a generic rating like 75 as the avg.  Then, I had to define the top rated players, and the lowest rated players (for the example 99, and 55).

Then, I set up the players' salaries based on OVR rating in 9 increments of 5 (99-95. 94-90, 89-85........etc. with the lowest group being <55 OVR.  Then I set the average salary at the middle (75) and for each rating increment went up a certain number.

For the example, I'll use 4$.  A 75-79 rated player would be earning 34$, while a 80-85 rated player would be making 38$.  A 95-99 rated player would then be making 50$ and a scrub <55 player would be making 18$. 

Then system has a few flaws (such as lack of positional adjustment, which means an 80 OVR K would earn as much as an 80 QB), and the numbers no doubt have to be adjusted depending on the personnell in the league, but the way it looks right now, I'll be able to use this in my league.

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Post #: 3
RE: Salary & Contract - 10/21/2008 1:09:13 PM   
Mykal


Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/3/2008
Status: offline 		exactly the same problem I was having

I too decided on a similar system based on skill level per player
but like you have pointed out
a lineman/kicker or kick returner of 85 would not be on the same money as a QB or WR of the same skill rate

Im working with a salary cap of $4,000.000
and basically was just going to go 1 for 1 so a player of 55 skill rate would be on $55,000 and so on
then imports is higher at 1 and half for 1 so the same 55 skill rate would be on $82,500

that salary would then be set in stone for the length of the players contract
regardless of any potential gain in skill (or drop) for the future years of the contract
when the contract is up, then he can renegotiate

Still hav'nt worked out how to determine the difference in salary for the "Skill Positions"
or a way to determine the length of each players contract

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RE: Salary & Contract - 10/21/2008 1:22:02 PM   
Hampe

 

Posts: 54
Joined: 10/15/2008
Status: offline 		What you could do, is set up a balance for each seperate position. And then have the cap be the total of all positions.


For example using a 50 mil. cap, the team might give out 5 mil for QBs, 5 mil for RBs, and say 2 mil for the OL.


Then you basically use the same system for each seperate position based on the positional balances.

For example, you normally have 3 qbs, so 5 mil divided by 3 (1.66 mil for an average qb). Then you can use the increment system I explained earlier, and divide up the qb salaries based on their OVR rating.

This way, a top QB will be earning more than a top OL or K.


As for contract length, the players I'm using only have it because I assigned them one the last time I used these rosters for a game. All I did was pick a random number 1-4 (using a number generator online) for their starting contract lengths (I did the same for age and # as well).

< Message edited by Hampe -- 10/21/2008 1:24:23 PM >

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Post #: 5
RE: Salary & Contract - 10/21/2008 1:35:47 PM   
Mykal


Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/3/2008
Status: offline 		yer I think thats the way to go

I was actually just thinking about using some kind of random number generater for contract length
and your post just sealed the deal..............thats what I'll do

the cap per position seems interesting
but brings more questions than answers

not all teams carry 3 QB's for example
plus in Canadian rules most teams carry no TE's so where does that salary go
and most teams carry only 1 kicker or punter, rather than one of each, but some do have one of each

but thanks for the suggestions, something to keep the mind ticking and worth thinking on

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RE: Salary & Contract - 10/21/2008 1:55:47 PM   
Mykal


Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/3/2008
Status: offline 		Kewl found a nice random number generator
that will let set the parameters of each random number before I generate

so I set number minimums and maximums
on the basis of

older players tend to want longer contracts
younger players dont tend to wanna be tied down to long contracts

etc, etc

so thats that sorted out

Its HERE if anyone else wants to use it

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Post #: 7
RE: Salary & Contract - 10/21/2008 2:13:27 PM   
Hampe

 

Posts: 54
Joined: 10/15/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mykal

the cap per position seems interesting
but brings more questions than answers

not all teams carry 3 QB's for example
plus in Canadian rules most teams carry no TE's so where does that salary go
and most teams carry only 1 kicker or punter, rather than one of each, but some do have one of each

but thanks for the suggestions, something to keep the mind ticking and worth thinking on

You would just have to go off of league averages for the positions.

Using the average we had before 1.66 mil for a 75 OVR QB....this would then apply to all QBs in the league. I'm not going to calculate it, but for an example we'll say 2.5 mil is what the top qbs are making, and 700k is what the scrubs are making (i.e. roughly 9 increments of 200k).

If a team only has 2 qbs, that's fine, they will probably just be under the 5 mil. "budget" that we came up with, and have money to spend elsewhere (for example, they could spend 6 mil. on WRs even though they only had a 5 mil "budget" for WRs).

As for how much of a "budget" each position has, you'll just have to decide that at the beginning (with the league salary cap being a total of all position "budgets").

The best way is probably to list all your positions, and determine what percent of the cap they should be getting,

For example:
QB 17%,
RB 13%,
WR 13%,
OL 10%,
DL 15%,
LB 15%,
DB 15%,
K/P 2%

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Post #: 8
RE: Salary & Contract - 10/21/2008 2:28:23 PM   
Brodie


Posts: 145
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline 		Rugby Canada Super League inherited the Salary and contract lenth from the VCFL and hav no idea how it was initially done.The entry level for next season will determine there new totals.

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Post #: 9
RE: Salary & Contract - 10/21/2008 2:32:43 PM   
Mykal


Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/3/2008
Status: offline 		Hmmmm

now thats a little more interesting
I would have to chip those figures a lttle
to incorporate SB TE and KR but that seems workable

2nd thought SB is really a WR so scrub that one

Thanks Buddy...........now to get on with the interesting bit........... the math lesson
Jeepers I hate math

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Post #: 10
RE: Salary & Contract - 10/21/2008 2:43:40 PM   
Hampe

 

Posts: 54
Joined: 10/15/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mykal

Hmmmm

now thats a little more interesting
I would have to chip those figures a lttle
to incorporate SB TE and KR but that seems workable

2nd thought SB is really a WR so scrub that one

Thanks Buddy...........now to get on with the interesting bit........... the math lesson
Jeepers I hate math

I love it .

I've been making fantasy leagues and thinking up sytems like this since I was a kid.

If you need any more help with it, let me know .

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Post #: 11
RE: Salary & Contract - 10/21/2008 10:25:03 PM   
mbsports

 

Posts: 275
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		I'm a free market guy but I like the idea of setting it up with a cap and then projecting out salaries and letting GMs take over from there.  In MBFL we have a hugely generous salary cap but we still get teams up against it which causes the desired effect - at some point you need to cut a player to make room for the next generation.  We also have salary escalators as Madden does this automagically and cap penalties. 

Applying these standards to Max FB should be fairly doable in an access DB with a couple formulas to determine a players approximate worth - this would be their asking price. 

You apply a floor minimum based upon years of service to it and then work up from there.  I'm working on a NASCAR based system right now for a guy who runs a racing league, but the principles are similar to what you're getting at.


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Post #: 12
RE: Salary & Contract - 10/21/2008 11:24:08 PM   
garysorrell


Posts: 2176
Joined: 1/29/2005
Status: offline 		This isnt salary related, but I use a random number generator to figure attendance for each game.

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Post #: 13
RE: Salary & Contract - 10/21/2008 11:48:04 PM   
redwolf1


Posts: 366
Joined: 5/13/2005
From: Maple Ridge, B.C., Canada
Status: offline 		I use a random number generator to decide what dance to do.






Just look at my moves!





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by redwolf1 -- 10/21/2008 11:49:00 PM >

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Post #: 14
RE: Salary & Contract - 10/21/2008 11:49:03 PM   
garysorrell


Posts: 2176
Joined: 1/29/2005
Status: offline 		Frightening and funny, all at the same time

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Post #: 15
RE: Salary & Contract - 10/21/2008 11:50:31 PM   
Mykal


Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/3/2008
Status: offline 		I actually have an attendance DB (made by VCFL Commish)
to do that exact same thing
but it also works out money related to bums on seats
home team and away teams cut of the money along with money that goes to the league

very useful

EDIT - actually scratch that, nope I dont have it
I have the DB but not the program to run it, one of the things I never recoverd from the old hard drive

< Message edited by Mykal -- 10/22/2008 12:31:34 AM >

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RE: Salary & Contract - 10/22/2008 5:42:45 AM   
mbsports

 

Posts: 275
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		As Mykal knows - random numbers and me are a bad combo - you end up with excel docs with 10,000+ cascading formulas that way...


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Post #: 17
RE: Salary & Contract - 10/22/2008 11:21:39 PM   
garysorrell


Posts: 2176
Joined: 1/29/2005
Status: offline 		Now that would be an interesting utility. A program that generates attendance for games. Maybe based on win/loss and a cities rating. Rate cities based on their willingness to support a team, ie: Fairweather/Reliable/Fanatical.

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Post #: 18
RE: Salary & Contract - 10/23/2008 1:19:32 AM   
Mykal


Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/3/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: garysorrell

Now that would be an interesting utility. A program that generates attendance for games. Maybe based on win/loss and a cities rating. Rate cities based on their willingness to support a team, ie: Fairweather/Reliable/Fanatical.

thats exactly what it was...............
I have emailed VCFL Commish and asked if he could see his way to re-emailing me it again
it was very useful
of course it has to be edited a little because it was league specific for the VCFL
but its simply a case of editing out team and stadium names along with capacities (as I remember)
hopefully he'll re-send me it

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RE: Salary & Contract - 10/24/2008 8:05:53 PM   
Mykal


Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/3/2008
Status: offline 		OK this is what I've got after Calculations
let me know what you think Hampe, I'm pretty happy with it but 2 heads is better than one

working with a cap of $4,200,000
Calculations were done on $4,000,000 (before I realised the CFL had raised the cap by $200,000)

QB 9% divided by 3
RB 12% divided by 4
WR 15% divided by 5
TE/SB 4% divided by 2
OL 10% divided by 7
DL 13% divided by 7
LB 15% divided by 7
DB 17% divided by 7
KR 1% divided by 1
K/P 2% divided by 2
spare 2%

I then took the numbers and rounded them down a little
in order to make future calculations easier
and got these figures which are based on average skill of 75

QB $120,000
RB $120,000
WR $120,000
TE/SB $80,000
OL $56,500
DL $74,275
LB $85,500
DB $97,250
KR $40,000
K/P $40,000

& increase/decrease per skill point will be at the following rates

QB $1,250
RB $1,000
WR $1,250
TE/SB $500
OL $250
DL $750
LB $750
DB $1,000
KR $250
K/P $500

Edit - Forgot the Imports, all imports will get an extra 5% of their total salary

< Message edited by Mykal -- 10/25/2008 3:50:33 AM >

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RE: Salary & Contract - 10/28/2008 10:01:13 AM   
Hampe

 

Posts: 54
Joined: 10/15/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mykal

OK this is what I've got after Calculations
let me know what you think Hampe, I'm pretty happy with it but 2 heads is better than one

working with a cap of $4,200,000
Calculations were done on $4,000,000 (before I realised the CFL had raised the cap by $200,000)

QB 9% divided by 3
RB 12% divided by 4
WR 15% divided by 5
TE/SB 4% divided by 2
OL 10% divided by 7
DL 13% divided by 7
LB 15% divided by 7
DB 17% divided by 7
KR 1% divided by 1
K/P 2% divided by 2
spare 2%

I then took the numbers and rounded them down a little
in order to make future calculations easier
and got these figures which are based on average skill of 75

QB $120,000
RB $120,000
WR $120,000
TE/SB $80,000
OL $56,500
DL $74,275
LB $85,500
DB $97,250
KR $40,000
K/P $40,000

& increase/decrease per skill point will be at the following rates

QB $1,250
RB $1,000
WR $1,250
TE/SB $500
OL $250
DL $750
LB $750
DB $1,000
KR $250
K/P $500

Edit - Forgot the Imports, all imports will get an extra 5% of their total salary

That looks good to me.....but it's hard to say until it's actually implemented.

But basically, using your system, a 99 OVR QB would make about 150k, and a 51 OVR QB would make about 90k, correct?

Have you already applied the system to some of your teams? How did they come out as far as being under or over the cap?

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Post #: 21
RE: Salary & Contract - 10/28/2008 4:01:27 PM   
Mykal


Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/3/2008
Status: offline 		Yes I've implemented the cap to 5 of the 10 teams in my canadian league

so far 4 teams were under the cap (some not by much)
and one team $100K over

which is pretty realistic I think

Yes a top QB would make $150K
although a top QB considerd an import would make 5% more

on the whole, I'm pretty happy with the system
salary might seem a little low to those used to the inflated salaries in the NFL
but with a cap of $4.2 mil in the canadian game
there's no place for the likes of Payton Manning and his $11 mil+ salary


< Message edited by Mykal -- 10/28/2008 4:09:48 PM >

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RE: Salary & Contract - 10/29/2008 2:04:08 PM   
Hampe

 

Posts: 54
Joined: 10/15/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mykal

Yes I've implemented the cap to 5 of the 10 teams in my canadian league

so far 4 teams were under the cap (some not by much)
and one team $100K over

which is pretty realistic I think

Yes a top QB would make $150K
although a top QB considered an import would make 5% more
Sounds like a good system then. As long as some of the better teams are over, and some of the worse teams are under....that's pretty much what you want out of a salary cap system like that.

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Post #: 23
RE: Salary & Contract - 10/29/2008 5:27:19 PM   
Mykal


Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/3/2008
Status: offline 		Yes, its seems to be working fine
7 teams done now, 5 under the cap and 2 over
just three teams left to go and I'm done

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Post #: 24
RE: Salary & Contract - 10/29/2008 8:16:00 PM   
VCFL Commish


Posts: 518
Joined: 2/28/2006
Status: offline 		What league are you doing it for,Mykal are you going to post this league?

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Post #: 25
RE: Salary & Contract - 10/29/2008 10:01:19 PM   
Mykal


Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/3/2008
Status: offline 		No suprises Trevor........... its a CFL league

as near to reality as I can make it
there may well have been a few player changes since I started creating it
The realists out there will easily be able to locate players and move them around

I've crammed in as much as possible
correct skin textures, birth dates and age
college, height and weight etc.
and then added contract and salary (just 3 teams salary to sort and I'm done)

the odd player here and there may have the wrong skin texture or DOB
when my hard drive died it scrambled some of the info when I recoiverd it
Ive corrected as much as I could see (short of starting from scratch again)

the usual 8 teams are included
along with Ottawa Renegades & of course my Yellowknife SaberCats

I'll upload it for those who want it when I'm finished
but have to add my common folder with it to allow for the extra faces and gloves etc.


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Post #: 26
RE: Salary & Contract - 10/29/2008 11:29:14 PM   
VCFL Commish


Posts: 518
Joined: 2/28/2006
Status: offline 		looking forward to what you put out there.

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Post #: 27
RE: Salary & Contract - 10/29/2008 11:53:31 PM   
mbsports

 

Posts: 275
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Nice work Mykal sounds like you got a winner there.  Might need to talk to you about how we can get it into MBCFL... could be real interesting - love what you're doing!


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Post #: 28
RE: Salary & Contract - 10/30/2008 3:31:49 AM   
Mykal


Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/3/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mbsports

Nice work Mykal sounds like you got a winner there.  Might need to talk to you about how we can get it into MBCFL... could be real interesting - love what you're doing!



Yer what ever you like,

How you would work that though is beyond me
because it would totally change everyones Roster.

Changing the subject a bit, I should have also mentioned
I also added in the all free agents I could find listed (those that where listed properly without missing info) on the CFL website
aswell as the teams rosters
and added in a few NFL players who have no team and arnt likely to get signed anytime soon

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Post #: 29
RE: Salary & Contract - 10/30/2008 2:56:07 PM   
Hampe

 

Posts: 54
Joined: 10/15/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mykal


and added in a few NFL players who have no team and arnt likely to get signed anytime soon
Like Maurice Clarett?



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Post #: 30
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