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MedWar, Awesome - 4/17/2002 8:02:10 AM   
Marine

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 3/15/2002
From: Toledo,OH
Status: offline 		I hope u do come out with a PacWar version for the Med. I would love to take Malta and put some backbone into the Italian navy. Give Rommel all the juice he needs for his Afrika Corps and watch him roll into Cairo. Again, BRING it on.
Post #: 1
- 4/17/2002 8:37:42 AM   
Sonny

 

Posts: 2008
Joined: 4/3/2002
Status: offline 		Would be nice. Been a looooong time since I played Bomb Alley.:)

(in reply to Marine)
Post #: 2
- 4/17/2002 1:56:52 PM   
RolandRahn_MatrixForum

 

Posts: 588
Joined: 3/18/2001
From: Beloit, USA
Status: offline 		Yes!
I would also like such a med game....
With some What-Ifs...
(Spain enters the war e.t.c.).

However, Rommel rolling into Cairo should be impossible unless some major changes occur. (Mussulini not declaring war with a big part of the Italian merchant marine within range of the RN, better harbour capacities in Lybia e.t.c.).

Regards,
Roland

(in reply to Marine)
Post #: 3
- 4/17/2002 2:18:47 PM   
Raverdave


Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
Status: offline 		Yeah put me down for a copy as well.......it would be great getting hold of the axis navies and gaining control of the med.....but gotta take-out Gibralta as well;)

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Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

(in reply to Marine)
Post #: 4
- 4/17/2002 3:05:48 PM   
Adnan Meshuggi

 

Posts: 2220
Joined: 8/2/2001
Status: offline 		Maybe it would be possible, to manage the atlantic, too... or even better (now i´m dreaming) both elements, including the whole world...

would have some interesting advantages for both sides, the axis could cooperate (something they never did) but also the allies could throw most ressources against the japs or viceversa... would be vera great.

But for the beginning would a med. game great.... want it, now...

:) :)

_____________________________

Don't tickle yourself with some moralist crap thinking we have some sort of obligation to help these people. We're there for our self-interest, and anything we do to be 'nice' should be considered a courtesy dweebespit

(in reply to Marine)
Post #: 5
- 4/17/2002 10:18:13 PM   
Mike Wood


Posts: 2095
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Oakland, California
Status: offline 		Hello...

We plan on doing a Med War game, using the Uncommon Valor engine. Name for game has been chosen, yet. Expect to publish it next year.

Bye...

Michael Wood
Lead Programmer,
Matrix Games

(in reply to Marine)
Post #: 6
- 4/17/2002 10:39:05 PM   
Adnan Meshuggi

 

Posts: 2220
Joined: 8/2/2001
Status: offline 		great !

Do you have more informations ????

hehe:D :D :D :D :D :D

_____________________________

Don't tickle yourself with some moralist crap thinking we have some sort of obligation to help these people. We're there for our self-interest, and anything we do to be 'nice' should be considered a courtesy dweebespit

(in reply to Marine)
Post #: 7
Mediterranean Theatre - 4/17/2002 11:14:24 PM   
IanLister

 

Posts: 158
Joined: 4/7/2002
From: Pennine Hills, Northern England, UK
Status: offline 		Matrix......you must do this game, please. Solomons and Mediterranean are my two big interest areas because of all the interaction between different kinds of force, and the Med. has never been done properly. A detailed operational level game based on this theatre would be brilliant. To be able to fight through the campaign as the British (OK I'm biased) with the built in equipment deficiencies of the period, to say nothing of Churchill's inept performance in dictating strategy, and still win, would be the ultimate challenge, particular if the AI Italian fleet actually took the war seriously. British sailors did in the Med. what US sailors did in late 42 in the Solomons......fought against the odds in many different ways and came through because they had no alternative. And the challenge of maintaining Malta? Wow!

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Battleaxe Rules!

(in reply to Marine)
Post #: 8
French and Italian fleets. - 4/17/2002 11:40:30 PM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		If the Germans had captured numerous units of either navy (being able to man them was an entirely different animal...don't think they had the manpower as they were already raping the Kriegsmarine's surface units for duty in the iron coffins)and could have manned them, the situation for the allies in the Med 41/42 would have been impossible. Med would have become a Nazi lake, and Cairo a popular R&R destination for victorious german troops.

Humour moment. Why did the French and Italian navies value speed when designing their ships? Respectively, the French ships would sink faster when scuttled, the Italian ships could run away faster when faced with inferior quantity and/or quality.:p

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Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to Marine)
Post #: 9
- 4/18/2002 12:45:39 AM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline 		Ron Saueracker:
quote:

(being able to man them was an entirely different animal...don't think they had the manpower as they were already raping the Kriegsmarine's surface units for duty in the iron coffins)


In any case, if one enjoyed a very real presence in the Med with surface forces, then obviously the gains might be more beneficial than leaving the former surface men on uboats, and therefore some would be transferred back to surface ships. I assume they were only transferred because their ship was no more, such as the Scharnhorst, later, or that there was more to gain with uboats. Any real possibility of controlling the Med might well be more important than hoping to drive up sinking the merchant fleet.

If the game would play out the entire war in the region, Germany controlling the Med or at least having a viable threat, would sway quite a bit of the war elsewhere, as obviously the Allied NAfrican landing in '43 would be imperilled, which if that were stopped would leave Italy in the war, even if Rommel was just confined to a very limited space and did very little throughout (which was what he was supposed to do; a defensive mission).

(in reply to Marine)
Post #: 10
- 4/18/2002 1:45:43 AM   
Dunedain

 

Posts: 224
Joined: 4/4/2000
Status: offline 		This will be a great wargame and I'm very much looking forward to playing it.
The Germans could send the Bismarck to the Med. instead of going after brit
shipping in the North Atlantic. :) Plus their other battleships and cruisers.

This would set the stage for some massive surface engagements with
the brits' capital ships. I can't wait! :)

(in reply to Marine)
Post #: 11
Bismark to Med? - 4/18/2002 2:01:55 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		I wonder how shes going to enter the Med? Of course you could say she was making a port vist in Italy when war starts but then the Med fills up with Allied BB and the med is a much harder place to hide.

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Marine)
Post #: 12
- 4/18/2002 2:27:53 AM   
IanLister

 

Posts: 158
Joined: 4/7/2002
From: Pennine Hills, Northern England, UK
Status: offline 		You won't need the 'what ifs'. Try playing Allies in 1941-2 with thw Fleet Air Arm's string and cardboard planes and the RN's AA capability against the Luftwaffe, plus a real admiral in Italy.
If you need hypothetical, what if the Germans had delayed Barbarossa until after the fall of Malta, Tobruk and Egypt?

Bismark would never have got to the Med. They'd have had to build it in Toulon or somewhere.

_____________________________

Battleaxe Rules!

(in reply to Marine)
Post #: 13
Cardboard planes - 4/18/2002 2:32:46 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Those cardboard plane sure suprised the Itailians (and gave funny ideas to the Japanese) I was going to suggest a really long canal for Bismark et al but thought better about it.

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Marine)
Post #: 14
- 4/18/2002 2:47:11 AM   
IanLister

 

Posts: 158
Joined: 4/7/2002
From: Pennine Hills, Northern England, UK
Status: offline 		The Germans built some great motorways in the thirties to move their military gear..... now if you built a loooong truck, and loaded the Bismark on it....................of course you'd need to capture a port in the south of France first.
Do you blame the Italians for being surprised when they first saw the Swordfish? They probably didn't know what it was. My dad and 5 uncles did various military jobs in this theatre during WW2 (2 didn't come home), and one of my uncles was an engine fitter working on the Swordfish on Malta in 40-42. You should have heard him talk about them flying backwards in a headwind.

_____________________________

Battleaxe Rules!

(in reply to Marine)
Post #: 15
Pigs - 4/18/2002 3:09:32 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Italian frogmen riding their Chariots into Alexandra Harbour.
Is the plan for the whole med/north Africa 40-43?

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Marine)
Post #: 16
Remake of Bomb Alley? - 4/18/2002 3:43:07 AM   
pad152

 

Posts: 2871
Joined: 4/23/2000
Status: offline 		Sounds like a remake of Bomb Alley any one remember that one?
The Italian navy was so bad!

I would like to see a remake of a more modern version of North Atlantic 86 with the Falkland inlands and China/North Korea.
(WITP meets The Operational Art of WarII).

There are very few modern games of this scope, I don't think the on-again off-again Harpoon IV will every be released or an over baked crap if it ever is.

(in reply to Marine)
Post #: 17
- 4/18/2002 6:13:18 AM   
RolandRahn_MatrixForum

 

Posts: 588
Joined: 3/18/2001
From: Beloit, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by IanLister
[B]If you need hypothetical, what if the Germans had delayed Barbarossa until after the fall of Malta, Tobruk and Egypt?
[/B][/QUOTE]

First of all, I seriously doubt that there was the possiblility of Egypt falling.
Seconed: If Germany does attack later than June 22nd, 1941, they will loose earlier.
Later in 41:
They won't come that close to Moscow before General Mud strikes....
In 42 or later, there will be some problems like
- the red army is recovering from the purges
- the Soviets continue to build these nasty tanks like the KV and the T-34, while the Germans continue to build Pz III and Pz IVs...
The development of the Panther was triggered by encountering the T-34.
No Barbarossa in 41, no encounter with T-34 in 41, no major effort to develop something that could counter the T-34, .....

Most important, the major problems are the limited naval transport and port capacities.....
Perhaps if the Italians would enter WWII *after* ordering their merchant marine to return to Italy....
And if the port capacities in Libya would be larger....
And even then I would seriously doubt that Egyt would fall....

Kind regards,
Roland (desperately waiting for UV;) )

(in reply to Marine)
Post #: 18
- 4/18/2002 1:09:56 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		I think that there could be a couple of interesting "what if?" sceanrios.

Off the bat, you could have the French Fleet honor the treaty with their ally England and join the British while their countrymen suffer under the yoke of the Nazi occupation.

Conversely, having the Germans take control of some or all of the French fleet would certainly have made things a lot more difficult for the British.

I could see the possibility of a large German vessel or task force being on a "friendship visit" at the declaration of war. After all, there was precedence in the SMS Geoben saga of WWI. This one on conjunction with the French joining the brits would be especially cool...

(in reply to Marine)
Post #: 19
- 4/18/2002 5:08:46 PM   
Adnan Meshuggi

 

Posts: 2220
Joined: 8/2/2001
Status: offline 		Some wishes for what if - campaigns in the med game....

Campaign One:
After a few days of BoB, with high losses, Hitler follows Raeder with his Mediterian Sea First Strategy.

Start of the Campaign, around October 40 (i´m in the office, at wich date come the desaster of the italian africa army ??)

Changes to history:
German invades rest of france qucikly after the decision and have a good chance of catch a lot frensh ships nearly undamaged

German troops can be assigned and withdrawn because of other decisions (like Barbarossa begins, or a surprise attack of russia)

Only limited access to german production of planes (only some factories (as off --map, but could be dameged by allied air attacks both from england and later form africa ??)

Partisan activity in greece, yougoslavia, crete....

For Opertion Torch the allied player need to prepare large quantity of troops/ships of

Victory conditions:

If the british forces in the med are totally destroyed, this could be an auto victory for the axis side
If the allies land in italy successfully (after the loss of africa and sicily for the axis) the war is over, too.(cause we have no sea war anymore)

Conquering Alexandria didn´t stop the campaign, if the allies could achieve a invasion in africa (maybe only at the atlantic coast and can establish an strong force

Options:
 Spain on the axis side (starting March 41) (on/off)
 No Operation Barbarossa (because next to the Lebensraum plans it was the idea of defeating uk in the east...) (on/off)
 Heavy ships can move from France to Mediterian AFTER fall of Gibraltar (asap after gibraltar is axis)
 Early war decleartion of USA because of heavy losses OR Spain on axis side (allways on)
 Stronger supply support of the USA, even ships reflaged under british flag, so the brits have more ships, if things start going wrong (allways on)
 British homefleet could be send to alexandria, too. (if the german heavies are in the med, the british heavies could go there, to (no fleet in beeing) (after Gibraltar fell and german heavies are in the med or the british navy in the med is fully destroyed... (activated after Fall of Gibraltar)
 Turkey delcare war aginst the allies (after the fall of Gibraltar AND Malta, or one of them and Alexandria but not if an allied landing in North west africa in on the way) But only some turkish troops as fortifications at the border. Only if german troops are marching in and invade syria, they could follow (allways on)

Well, that are my first impressions
:) :) :)

_____________________________

Don't tickle yourself with some moralist crap thinking we have some sort of obligation to help these people. We're there for our self-interest, and anything we do to be 'nice' should be considered a courtesy dweebespit

(in reply to Marine)
Post #: 20
- 4/18/2002 7:20:57 PM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline 		Uncommon Valour 2 – The Med

It is important that the players play Uncommon Valour 1, for at least 3 months before Matrix begin work on Uncommon Valour 2.

The feed back from the players is very important.

Uncommon Valour is predominately a naval game. I don't understand it my self but it intrigues me so I look forward to the game.

Yet a game set in the Med needs to also represent the ground fighting or else the naval warfare has no real meaning.

So the fighting in North Africa needs to be represented. This makes the game half naval and half a strategic land war fare game. I wonder if the game engine could handle this. Probably up to the time Tunisia falls.

After that date the axis navies has little or no effect in the Med.

And another point. For a game to be truly great the following must be true:

Imagine you had 2 computers playing each other H2H. It is likely that each computer will make the same decisions as their historical counterpart. And the Axis will surrender at the same time as they did historically. This result I consider to be a “stalemate”.

It would be up to human players to do better than their historical counterparts. There lies the skill and the fun of the game.

-

(in reply to Marine)
Post #: 21
- 4/19/2002 12:57:57 AM   
Frost

 

Posts: 28
Joined: 1/9/2001
From: Syracuse, NY USA
Status: offline 		It would be nice if they could use the War in the Pacific model and not Uncommon Valors, I would like to see a larger scale with both Med and Atlantic. Unless they are planning on separate releases for these anyways.

This would make everyone happy as they could use the Bismark and so on. Would like to see more detail with the U-Boats for the Atlantic.

For added fun I would like to see what if's included with the Germans able to launch Carriers and use the Graf Zeppelin and Flugzeugtrager B. with converted to carriers the Europa and Potsdam etc... Then it would be my dream game, lots to try out and explore.

(in reply to Marine)
Post #: 22
- 4/19/2002 1:18:11 AM   
RolandRahn_MatrixForum

 

Posts: 588
Joined: 3/18/2001
From: Beloit, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Adnan Meshuggi
[B]Some wishes for what if - campaigns in the med game....

Campaign One:
After a few days of BoB, with high losses, Hitler follows Raeder with his Mediterian Sea First Strategy.

Start of the Campaign, around October 40 (i´m in the office, at wich date come the desaster of the italian africa army ??)

Changes to history:
German invades rest of france qucikly after the decision and have a good chance of catch a lot frensh ships nearly undamaged

German troops can be assigned and withdrawn because of other decisions (like Barbarossa begins, or a surprise attack of russia)

Only limited access to german production of planes (only some factories (as off --map, but could be dameged by allied air attacks both from england and later form africa ??)

Partisan activity in greece, yougoslavia, crete....

For Opertion Torch the allied player need to prepare large quantity of troops/ships of

Victory conditions:

If the british forces in the med are totally destroyed, this could be an auto victory for the axis side
If the allies land in italy successfully (after the loss of africa and sicily for the axis) the war is over, too.(cause we have no sea war anymore)

Conquering Alexandria didn´t stop the campaign, if the allies could achieve a invasion in africa (maybe only at the atlantic coast and can establish an strong force

Options:
 Spain on the axis side (starting March 41) (on/off)
 No Operation Barbarossa (because next to the Lebensraum plans it was the idea of defeating uk in the east...) (on/off)
 Heavy ships can move from France to Mediterian AFTER fall of Gibraltar (asap after gibraltar is axis)
 Early war decleartion of USA because of heavy losses OR Spain on axis side (allways on)
 Stronger supply support of the USA, even ships reflaged under british flag, so the brits have more ships, if things start going wrong (allways on)
 British homefleet could be send to alexandria, too. (if the german heavies are in the med, the british heavies could go there, to (no fleet in beeing) (after Gibraltar fell and german heavies are in the med or the british navy in the med is fully destroyed... (activated after Fall of Gibraltar)
 Turkey delcare war aginst the allies (after the fall of Gibraltar AND Malta, or one of them and Alexandria but not if an allied landing in North west africa in on the way) But only some turkish troops as fortifications at the border. Only if german troops are marching in and invade syria, they could follow (allways on)

Well, that are my first impressions
:) :) :) [/B][/QUOTE]

Yes!
But I would like to see the option to choose no options...
So that you don't know if Spain enters the war, if Barbarossa is cancelled (at least you wouldn't learn it in 1940) e.t.c.....

Regards,
Roland

(in reply to Marine)
Post #: 23
- 4/19/2002 5:13:05 AM   
Massimo

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 4/20/2001
From: Florence - Italy
Status: offline 		Hi Ron,
can you tell me where and when an italian ship ran away during ww2?
Best regard

_____________________________

"Nei secoli fedele"(Loyal in the centuries)Carabinieri motto

(in reply to Marine)
Post #: 24
- 4/19/2002 6:27:07 PM   
Jap Lance

 

Posts: 38
Joined: 1/29/2002
From: Mallorca, Spain
Status: offline 		A Mediterranean game. I'd love this. I used to play GNB4 only in the Mediterranean theater, though the land fight was rather abstract and it was impossible to play a full 40-43 naval campaign due to the number of ships involved.
Lots of possible what if's, very interesting submarine warfare (I think that about 150 subs of both sides were sunk in the Mediterranean), different strategies to follow (try to finish the Italians in NA instead of going to Greece¡¡), CR42's against Gladiators... Wow. Sounds amazing.

_____________________________


(in reply to Marine)
Post #: 25
- 4/19/2002 6:30:57 PM   
Jap Lance

 

Posts: 38
Joined: 1/29/2002
From: Mallorca, Spain
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by RolandRahn
[B]

Yes!
But I would like to see the option to choose no options...
So that you don't know if Spain enters the war, if Barbarossa is cancelled (at least you wouldn't learn it in 1940) e.t.c.....

Regards,
Roland [/B][/QUOTE]

Yes that would be great. I remember the V4V games had an option to randomize the possible what if's so you didn't know exactly what to expect. It could be a nasty surprise to find that the French fleet has joined the Italians after Mers-el-Kebir.

_____________________________


(in reply to Marine)
Post #: 26
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