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RE: joint AAR Nachtjagd 1 - VonShagmeister vs swift

 
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RE: joint AAR Nachtjagd 1 - VonShagmeister vs swift - 11/7/2008 5:14:56 PM   
tanksone


Posts: 390
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: St Paul, Mn.
Status: offline 		Hi, I've never played this game but like many I'm waiting for the release. Two questions, how many way points will you have on the way to the target and what is creepback?




(in reply to wernerpruckner)
Post #: 31
RE: joint AAR Nachtjagd 1 - VonShagmeister vs swift - 11/7/2008 5:36:30 PM   
von Shagmeister


Posts: 1273
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: Dromahane, Ireland
Status: offline 		There are now 4xWP on inbound leg and 4xWP on the return leg. In the old game there were 2 and 2. The increase in WPs is a great improvement, it means you can avoid alot of flak concentrations (just ask Werner).

Creepback is where in real life bombers dropped their loads on the target conflagration steadily earlier and earlier (as fire spread and/or some bombs being off target) instead of the actual aiming point. The result is the bombing tracked back along the line of approach of the bombers. The game models this and can be used to cause collateral to other targets.

Master Bombers and Backer Uppers were always watching out for this and markers would be placed to try and correct the bombing that was creeping off target.

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Post #: 32
RE: joint AAR Nachtjagd 1 - VonShagmeister vs swift - 11/7/2008 6:06:10 PM   
wernerpruckner


Posts: 4148
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		creepback:
as Shaggy said.
best used by BC to damaged additional targets in or sometimes around cities.

turn 5 is a small one, only few missions to keep VS busy




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Post #: 33
RE: joint AAR Nachtjagd 1 - VonShagmeister vs swift - 11/7/2008 6:09:03 PM   
wernerpruckner


Posts: 4148
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		but those missions made enough damage to keep me happy

a Sterling I unit upgraded to MKIII.
For the Lancasters and Halifaxes I can only hope that there will be low losses, because several of the units have only half their strength at the moment.




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Post #: 34
RE: joint AAR Nachtjagd 1 - VonShagmeister vs swift - 11/8/2008 10:46:39 AM   
von Shagmeister


Posts: 1273
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: Dromahane, Ireland
Status: offline 		27Aug43

It appears the RAF are also quick to adapt. One large stream is detected but instead of hitting one target the stream splits into many smaller raids against multiple area targets which are lightly defended by flak batteries. Without the benefit of searchlights and the necessary time to assemble fighters the RAF manage to inflict serious damage with minimal losses.

The Luftwaffe success of two nights previous is soon forgotten. Only nine bombers are destroyed, of which only four are due to fighters, a very poor result considering the level of RAF activity.

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Post #: 35
RE: joint AAR Nachtjagd 1 - VonShagmeister vs swift - 11/8/2008 11:32:18 AM   
wernerpruckner


Posts: 4148
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		turn 6 worked very well for the Allied C in C

The plan was to attack several undefended targets with 2 main attacks against Stuttgart PORT and Unterturkheim (suburb of Stuttgart) with 200 Lancaster and 150 Halifax ( in 4 streams). The main industrial complexes of Daimler Benz EFACs were also aimed.
The Mosquito bombers will have to mark the last turning point directly in the center of Stuttgart.

Saarbrücken, Karlsruhe und Offenburg will be attacked by Wellington and Sterling bombers with the help of some Lancaster III pathfinders.

Kaiserslautern and Homburg will also be marked by pathfinders to confuse the German defenders




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Post #: 36
RE: joint AAR Nachtjagd 1 - VonShagmeister vs swift - 11/8/2008 11:33:41 AM   
wernerpruckner


Posts: 4148
Joined: 5/5/2005
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and here the planed flypaths for the turn 6 missions




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Post #: 37
RE: joint AAR Nachtjagd 1 - VonShagmeister vs swift - 11/8/2008 11:36:03 AM   
wernerpruckner


Posts: 4148
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
we will need several such turns just to compensate the losses we had a few turns back.
This time it worked very well......but it is only one of many nights to come.




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Post #: 38
RE: joint AAR Nachtjagd 1 - VonShagmeister vs swift - 11/8/2008 11:37:53 AM   
wernerpruckner


Posts: 4148
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		here is the mission report - the German NFs could not concentrate their forces this time
the attacked cities have a red circle.




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< Message edited by swift -- 11/8/2008 11:38:42 AM >

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Post #: 39
RE: joint AAR Nachtjagd 1 - VonShagmeister vs swift - 11/8/2008 11:40:17 AM   
wernerpruckner


Posts: 4148
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		here a overview of my Halifax forces ( I had to downgrade some, just to fill up the squadrons).
You can see that the ready A/C number is quite low after a combat mission.




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Post #: 40
RE: joint AAR Nachtjagd 1 - VonShagmeister vs swift - 11/8/2008 11:41:45 AM   
wernerpruckner


Posts: 4148
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		The only claimed kills so far were made by Halifax crews




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Post #: 41
RE: joint AAR Nachtjagd 1 - VonShagmeister vs swift - 11/8/2008 11:42:45 AM   
wernerpruckner


Posts: 4148
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		and here a overview of the Halifax II




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Post #: 42
RE: joint AAR Nachtjagd 1 - VonShagmeister vs swift - 11/8/2008 11:44:24 AM   
wernerpruckner


Posts: 4148
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		and here part 2 of the Halifax data ( so you can see the electronics and ranges)




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Post #: 43
RE: joint AAR Nachtjagd 1 - VonShagmeister vs swift - 11/8/2008 11:58:19 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		The game misspells "incendiary" on that screen.

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Post #: 44
RE: joint AAR Nachtjagd 1 - VonShagmeister vs swift - 11/8/2008 2:11:03 PM   
wernerpruckner


Posts: 4148
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		turn 7 will be a short turn, with only one bombing mission and few NI missions




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Post #: 45
RE: joint AAR Nachtjagd 1 - VonShagmeister vs swift - 11/8/2008 2:14:56 PM   
wernerpruckner


Posts: 4148
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		only limited Axis response, and those were too late

turn 8 is a resting turn, weather and some other reasons




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Post #: 46
RE: joint AAR Nachtjagd 1 - VonShagmeister vs swift - 11/8/2008 2:16:15 PM   
wernerpruckner


Posts: 4148
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

The game misspells "incendiary" on that screen.


thanx,
hopefully HS will not use all his spellings

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Post #: 47
RE: joint AAR Nachtjagd 1 - VonShagmeister vs swift - 11/8/2008 2:30:41 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		Bite me buddy

you know that is part of the code, just like the other names you keep wanting Harley to change

nothing I can do with it, other then pass it on to Harley


for what it is worth, the 4 pound and 30 pound are correct, the 100 and 400 are called ICB's (for naming)

that is a old spelling error that is in the code (I never notice it) all I can do is pass it on to Harley (for weapon type)




< Message edited by Hard Sarge -- 11/8/2008 2:38:40 PM >

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Post #: 48
RE: joint AAR Nachtjagd 1 - VonShagmeister vs swift - 11/8/2008 4:55:32 PM   
wernerpruckner


Posts: 4148
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		because there were no missions, all units have more ready A/C

for the numbers of industrial damage and terror:
this is a small scenario, therefor there is no repair
all damage is cumulative



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< Message edited by swift -- 11/8/2008 4:58:43 PM >

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Post #: 49
RE: joint AAR Nachtjagd 1 - VonShagmeister vs swift - 11/8/2008 4:56:56 PM   
wernerpruckner


Posts: 4148
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		lets have a look into the Sterling I units:





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Post #: 50
RE: joint AAR Nachtjagd 1 - VonShagmeister vs swift - 11/8/2008 5:00:08 PM   
wernerpruckner


Posts: 4148
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		and now to the A/C data.....the Sterling would have been a great A/C with bigger wings ( and therefor a much better altitude )




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Post #: 51
RE: joint AAR Nachtjagd 1 - VonShagmeister vs swift - 11/8/2008 5:01:33 PM   
wernerpruckner


Posts: 4148
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		uups the data is from the Sterling III

part 2




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Post #: 52
RE: joint AAR Nachtjagd 1 - VonShagmeister vs swift - 11/8/2008 7:47:26 PM   
GShock


Posts: 1245
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: San Francisco, CA - USA
Status: offline 		I'll just never stop asking myself how they could bomb by night without aiming devices, instruments or...sight on target.
Boy this game amuses me and it appears it's also very complex!


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(in reply to wernerpruckner)
Post #: 53
RE: joint AAR Nachtjagd 1 - VonShagmeister vs swift - 11/8/2008 8:00:30 PM   
wernerpruckner


Posts: 4148
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GShock

I'll just never stop asking myself how they could bomb by night without aiming devices, instruments or...sight on target.
Boy this game amuses me and it appears it's also very complex!



huch ???
what about the battle of the beams ??
Oboe, H2S, H2X

and many many more devices

see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_electronic_warfare_equipment

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Post #: 54
RE: joint AAR Nachtjagd 1 - VonShagmeister vs swift - 11/8/2008 8:02:28 PM   
wernerpruckner


Posts: 4148
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		and many of those are in BtR

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Post #: 55
RE: joint AAR Nachtjagd 1 - VonShagmeister vs swift - 11/8/2008 8:06:39 PM   
wernerpruckner


Posts: 4148
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		here are the devices from the old BtR:

Flensburg           
FuG 202             
FuG 212             
FuG 218 Neptun      
FuG 220 SN-2        
FuG 240 Berlin      
Spanner             
Postklystron        
AI Mk.IV Radar      
AI Mk.VII Radar     
AI Mk.X Radar       
H2S Nav.Radar       
H2X Nav.Radar       
Freya               
Mammut              
Gee                 
Oboe                
Monica              
Boozer              
Serrate             
Perfectos           
Serrate IV          
Jostle              
Mandrel             
Piperack            
Airbourne Cigar     
ELINT Receivers     

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Post #: 56
RE: joint AAR Nachtjagd 1 - VonShagmeister vs swift - 11/8/2008 10:14:52 PM   
davidjruss


Posts: 235
Joined: 5/25/2002
From: Derby, England
Status: offline 		Swift ,

How is recon handled in this game you are playing?

Is recon a feature of this scenario at all because if you are just playing BC at night how do you update info regarding damage done and info re possible targets?

This would normally be undertaken by recon units during the day turn.

Davidr

(in reply to wernerpruckner)
Post #: 57
RE: joint AAR Nachtjagd 1 - VonShagmeister vs swift - 11/8/2008 10:25:47 PM   
von Shagmeister


Posts: 1273
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: Dromahane, Ireland
Status: offline 		30Aug43

Bomber Command is out in force again. XII.Fl.Kps. orders a maximum effort despite the thick cloud. It is hoped that results will be better than 27Aug43.

The night proves frustrating for the Luftwaffe. Although many fighters are in the air there are relatively few interceptions. FuG 212 gives 25 detections but because of the weather only three lead to interceptions. We have most success over Emden where there is less cloud and the searchlights are of more help in picking out bombers. In total only 35 enemy a/c are destroyed, 22 of them by fighters. To compound the failures of the night RAF Intruders have a number of successes against returning fighters attempting to land, including two of our pre production He 219s.

We must have new sensors that are immune to Window or all our cities will be reduced to rubble.

< Message edited by von Shagmeister -- 11/8/2008 10:28:21 PM >

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Post #: 58
RE: joint AAR Nachtjagd 1 - VonShagmeister vs swift - 11/9/2008 10:48:37 AM   
wernerpruckner


Posts: 4148
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DavidR

Swift ,

How is recon handled in this game you are playing?

Is recon a feature of this scenario at all because if you are just playing BC at night how do you update info regarding damage done and info re possible targets?

This would normally be undertaken by recon units during the day turn.

Davidr


there is no recon in the 3 nightbombing campaigns.....
this makes them sometimes very hard for the Allied player, because I do not know ( others than by score ) how much I have damaged targets, or how well protected the enemy cities are.

I do not know if we will get some amount of recce in the final version for the 3 BC campaigns

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Post #: 59
RE: joint AAR Nachtjagd 1 - VonShagmeister vs swift - 11/9/2008 10:53:44 AM   
wernerpruckner


Posts: 4148
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		for turn 9 I tried once again to hit one target hard - this time Brunswick.
Some smaller raids were made to other targets.

The Brunswick raid is composed of 2 Halifax streams, 3 Lancaster streams and a Mossiebomber pathfinder force.
Halifax will go a long way over the continent and attack from South.
Lancaster will go via the Northern sea and attack from North.
Mossies will fly along the coast ( with all Mossie RCMs) towards Hamburg and than break South to mark Brunswick




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Post #: 60
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