Lucas718
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Joined: 3/4/2006
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ORIGINAL: Marauders
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I guess my question is why was further revenue needed to keep development going? Through the entire process we were told that David was programming the game in his spare time.
Going by this statement, I don't believe you understand the process, and I don't believe you understand how much time each day David actually put into coding Maximum Football. Being a programmer is a mind wracking job in itself. David put in his time at work, mostly for Electronic Arts, and then came home and worked on the game often for another four to six hours and often on weekends as well.
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Yes he worked on it for over 2 years after the initial release by pumping out free updates but let's be honest, those updates were needed in order to get the game to where it should have been at the initial release.
While I agree that the game should not have been shipped when it was, I disagree that David and Matrix Dames should not have been paid for value added content. I never did like the development model used to create to Maximum Football because it didn't do enough to make sure that essential items were in the game at each lock down, and it didn't have distinct lockdowns. That meant that 1.1 wasn't ready for release, and 1.3 wasn't cleaned up enough to be a stand alone product. 1.3 flowed into 1.5 which became 2.0.
That would have been fine, but 2.0 wasn't ready in many areas either, and Matrix Games treated 2.0 like a new product price wise. I don't believe Matrix Games understood the market for this product, and how much the price would limit demand.
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If he had just kept quiet about it and kept working on it and released it now, he'd have a lot more people interested in the game.
If David had kept quite about it, the game would not have been much more than Backyard Football. I think you underestimate how much time and effort the beta team had to use to get Maximum Football into football shape as anything resembling a simulation of the actual game. I can honestly say that I likely logged over 500 hours in beta and as the board moderator, and beta had heavy rotation with Old Coach, nmleague, Tullius, Gary, Ed, and others.
I do agree that if David had brought in more football minds from the start and then set in to create Maximum Football, it would have been a lot easier and a lot cleaner at release. Too much of the game had to have things recoded that could have been just coded once if the plan was more clear from the get go. This is something I brought up long before Maximum Football was even associated with Matrix Games.
That stated, one should give David credit for making many changes to Maximum Football that the beta team and community asked for. Only the better developers are willing to do that, and David should have received better compensation for his efforts.
Leaving the board, on the other hand, was neither good for the product nor a smart thing to do for the prospects of any future products.
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I just don't understand how someone who put 5 years into a project can just walk away from it and the people who supported him like none of it matters. Where is the pride in the work? Where is the drive to see something through to completion?
I believe in David's opinion, 2.2 is complete. He gave his final build to Matrix Games and left it at that. I don't agree with that, because although that is how a contracted programmer would do it, a developer needs to do more to follow up. David chose to wear the many hats he did on this project, but then he got burned out from the weight of them.
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Where was the note of thanks to everyone who supported him over the years?
I'll just state that the developer likely doesn't see support the same way that the community or beta team does. Just like the viewpoint of EA Sports and Sony, support isn't something the developer gets; support is something the developer gives. I disagree with that, especially when it comes to the beta team, but that is the likely view of things nevertheless. It is a far too common view from large software companies, but small developers have to understand that mutual support is the only way to make money in the long run.
To be fair, David worked harder on this project that most people, outside of the beta team and his wife, know. I am sure he had pride in his work.
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Why all the promises of future updates and features that were being worked on for MF 2.5 and MF 3.0?
2.5 was actively being worked on, and 3.0 was being planned.
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I think back to a post David made right before the initial release in which he stated that he considered scrapping the whole project at the last minute. I always thought that was strange, but now I guess it makes sense. He was always willing to throw it all away whether it was complete or not.
David has made similar statements in public from time to time. I won't get into the psychology of such statements, but it really is too bad.
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Maybe he was more interested in trying to make a quick buck than a quality product.
I am sure David and Matrix Games were trying to make money from the game. That is, after all, the literal bottom line.
I don't believe there was anything quick about it. David certainly paid his dues and put in his time.
Again, I must state that I am not here to either defend David or demonize him. I have been as critical as anyone about the way this was handled and about the way the game was developed, but one must be fair and give credit where credit is due, and David deserves a lot of credit for taking this game to where it is now. Maximum Football 2.2 isn't as good as 2.5 would have been or 3.0 may be in the future, but it is much better than 1.1 was and better than many other football games in some areas. The beta team should be given credit for pushing features, giving detailed input, and testing the game, and the public should be given credit for making the purchase and supporting the community, but David did all of the coding, and that was a lot of the real hard work.
I understand he put in many many hours on the game and it eventually burned him out. I know he took the game further than he ever intended but there are still some parts that could use work. For him to just drop the whole project really looks bad. How can anyone have faith in him to buy another product he creates?
I disagree that the game would have been no more popular than Backyard Football if he had waited to release it. A quality product will attract customers. Word will get around. PC sports gamers have been begging for a successor to Football Pro for nearly a decade now. A lot of people were turned off by the condition the game was in when it was released and they never came back to give the game another chance. It may sound like I'm just bashing the game but I do still enjoy it and play it nearly every day. I have a 76 team NCAA league running. I just really wish he would have stuck around to continue development. The whole thing opened old wounds from the FBPro 99 debacle because of the way it ended.
You guys on the beta team deserve a lot of credit for sticking with the game even though your suggestions and recommendations were not being implemented. I give you all credit for trying.
I also play OOTP baseball. I have bought every version since OOTP3. Markus Heinsohn is the role model every one-man developer team should follow. He communicates with the users frequently. He makes himself part of the community and he tirelessly pumps out quality updates. He has established a track record of great support for the game. His is the only game I pre-order every year. I guess I had hoped to see the same from David and I'm disappointed that he chose not to stick around to finish what he started.
I guess that's really all I have to say about it. There's really no point in continuing to debate about what should have happened. What's done is done. Sorry for hijacking the thread. It was never my intention, but the conversation just kinda drifted away from the original topic.
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Printable Version
RE: Maximum Football 2.3 Update? - 
), but the fact that the game never did attract enough of those with the desire and the programing know how to program all the various utilities that would help to really polish up/enhance the game and help drive a consumer base and elevate the game into a truly cult classic. We needed a JD over here, but we also needed a Lorne Sundby, an NZA, and the like as well. This didn't happen..."why" is a completely up for debate - we could fault decisions David made, decisions Matrix made, etc. (but that's another arguement). I knew shortly after 2.0 was released that if there wasn't the makings of strong 3rd party utility development or if there didn't appear to be a potential of a vibrant utility base, the game would be in trouble (that coupled with the price point 
). 
...and this at no fault to JD... 
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