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Hack's Plays v3.4.2 released

 
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Hack's Plays v3.4.2 released - 11/22/2008 12:52:37 PM   
hack153

 

Posts: 525
Joined: 11/11/2006
From: New Englander in Northern, Northern California
Status: offline 		v3.4.2 release features Coach Smith. Smith is a former playbook that I created, but have now updated. Smith is a balanced offensive playbook with a wide variety of defensive formations. I have added a bunch of offensive plays, special teams, and a lot of defensive plays to the playbook.

Smith's Offensive Formations (Approx. 71 plays):
I Form
Strong I
Weak I
Ace
Pro (Split back)
Goalline
Shotgun 4 Wide

Defensive Formations (Approx. 68 plays)
3-1
3-4
4-1
4-2
4-3
4-3O
4-3S
5-2
6-5

v3.4.2 also contains Coach Davis' defensive plays, and some of his offensive plays. However, it is not completed.

Other Changes:
QB Dropback movements
PA Blocking schemes
New Empty Playbook Templates

Coming Next:
Coach Williams and Wilson are getting an upgrade as we speak (v3.4.3 & v.3.4.4 release). The Davis playbook will be completed and released in v3.5.

**I'm fixing the old playbooks because it is faster to upgrade (guessing around 40-80+ hours) than to create a brand new playbook (guessing around 100-120+ hours). If only I got paid to make playbooks!**

Here is a new idea I am also toying with for Coach Wilson, which is a run heavy offense using a HB and QB. It's gonna be the closest thing I can make to a true WildCat formation. Here's an example:






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by hack153 -- 11/22/2008 12:59:44 PM >

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RE: Hack's Plays v3.4.2 released - 11/22/2008 12:57:14 PM   
hack153

 

Posts: 525
Joined: 11/11/2006
From: New Englander in Northern, Northern California
Status: offline 		Here's another example:






Attachment (1)

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RE: Hack's Plays v3.4.2 released - 11/22/2008 2:16:33 PM   
garysorrell


Posts: 2176
Joined: 1/29/2005
Status: offline 		As always, thanks for the good work.



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RE: Hack's Plays v3.4.2 released - 11/23/2008 5:56:09 AM   
hack153

 

Posts: 525
Joined: 11/11/2006
From: New Englander in Northern, Northern California
Status: offline 		anyone know how we can move the QB into a WR position?  or is that locked down in the programming?

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RE: Hack's Plays v3.4.2 released - 11/23/2008 8:31:04 AM   
hack153

 

Posts: 525
Joined: 11/11/2006
From: New Englander in Northern, Northern California
Status: offline 		Error Found:

Brown PA I TE1 OUT - The QB does not pass. Need to change last command point to "wait .15", "Pass - Read".  Change second to last command point - delete "Pass" that comes after "drop".

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RE: Hack's Plays v3.4.2 released - 11/23/2008 2:39:57 PM   
Frank Brickowski

 

Posts: 66
Joined: 2/17/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hack153

anyone know how we can move the QB into a WR position?  or is that locked down in the programming?



Change the qb to wr. Go into the depth chart/formation. Find the formation you want the qb to play wr in. Sub him in for one of the other wrs. Go back and change the qb from WR back to qb and he'll still be at wr on whatever formation(s) you subbed him in. BTW. I suck at instruction.

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Post #: 6
RE: Hack's Plays v3.4.2 released - 11/23/2008 2:40:38 PM   
Frank Brickowski

 

Posts: 66
Joined: 2/17/2006
Status: offline 		I made a wildcat formation with a hb at qb and the qb at wr. 

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Post #: 7
RE: Hack's Plays v3.4.2 released - 11/23/2008 3:44:17 PM   
Frank Brickowski

 

Posts: 66
Joined: 2/17/2006
Status: offline 		I also added Reggie Bush to the WR depth chart while his position is still HB. I did the same i mention above EXCEPT i didn't use the formation part. I changed Reggie Bush from a HB to a WR, added him to the WR Depth chart. Then went back and changed Bush from a WR back to a halfback and he still is on the WR depth chart. Works for every position.

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Post #: 8
RE: Hack's Plays v3.4.2 released - 11/24/2008 12:59:50 AM   
hack153

 

Posts: 525
Joined: 11/11/2006
From: New Englander in Northern, Northern California
Status: offline 		thanks.  

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RE: Hack's Plays v3.4.2 released - 11/24/2008 1:09:30 AM   
DreamTeams


Posts: 520
Joined: 5/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hack153

Error Found:

Brown PA I TE1 OUT - The QB does not pass. Need to change last command point to "wait .15", "Pass - Read".  Change second to last command point - delete "Pass" that comes after "drop".


Thanks for the heads up Hack. Fixed. Playbooks are sweet. Thanks for updating Smith.

< Message edited by DreamTeams -- 11/24/2008 5:21:57 AM >

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RE: Hack's Plays v3.4.2 released - 11/24/2008 1:57:29 AM   
hack153

 

Posts: 525
Joined: 11/11/2006
From: New Englander in Northern, Northern California
Status: offline 		no problem.  whenever i find a major error, i'll let everyone know how to fix it.

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RE: Hack's Plays v3.4.2 released - 11/24/2008 5:32:51 AM   
simmer

 

Posts: 572
Joined: 11/20/2004
From: Pittsburgh,Pa
Status: offline 		GREAT as USUAL Hack!

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Post #: 12
RE: Hack's Plays v3.4.2 released - 12/3/2008 7:41:43 PM   
regenerator

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 12/11/2005
Status: offline 		Hey Hack -
first of all, before I say anything else, I want to thank you for these playbooks.  I 'd like to officially add my voice to the group of people who agree that without your plays, this game probably wouldn't be playable for me in this unfortunate final state.  The running game is outstanding, # of sacks are great... most statistics that formerly were just not coming out in a realistic way have vastly improved by using your playbooks.

However there is one a major problem I'm seeing.  Now, I understand there are many factors and this of course could have nothing to do with your playbooks.  I haven't had a chance to go  back and test many others recently.  In any case, the problem is that, especially with the Smith playbook - which I love the idea of because I believe that most offenses in the NFL (the type of league I'm running) run a more or less balanced attack - I'm seeing way too many short passes.  The result is that by the end of the game, the QB's are lucky to have 10 yards per completion, well below the 11-12 I'm expecting to see. My average is probably 8-9 yds/completion, and this is with elite QB's (Romo, Roethlisberger, Rivers, etc)

I've been running full 15-minute computer vs. computer simulations with slightly tweaked MADNFL rosters.  As I've said, with your playbooks, all the other stats are coming out great (save perhaps for int's, which I'm working on tweaking with some of the game's settings and player ratings).  However, this short-passing situation is really limiting the realism for me.  Have you seen this yourself?  Is there a solution to this?  If this is indeed a problem for people other than myself, please look to this as a request for something to be tweaked in future releases.  If it's just me, sorry to waste everyone's time! ;)

Btw, in case you're wondering, here are some of my settings in "Constants.dat" that may be affecting this -

//Blocking
BlockingPassBlockTime=1.5 (I was using the standard 3, getting no sacks and still short passes)
BlockingPassBlockStrength=1.1 (same thing here; was using 1.5, no sacks, still short passes)

//QB Read base times.
QBRead_Threshold=3.5
QBScramble_Threshold=4

QBPassingAccuracyBase=4 (5 was resulting in too poor completion %)

Thanks for any feedback and keep up the great work!  I also have to commend you on the regularity at which you provide updates.  IMO, esp with Halfrack temp out of commission, you are single-handedly keeping this thing alive! :)


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Post #: 13
RE: Hack's Plays v3.4.2 released - 12/3/2008 9:12:01 PM   
DreamTeams


Posts: 520
Joined: 5/19/2006
Status: offline 		Hmm. Are you talking about simmed cpu vs cpu games or 3D cpu vs cpu games? I checked my game stats and get on average 11-12 yards per gain in both. Using Hack's playbooks.

Here's what I have in my constants in these areas...

//Blocking
BlockingPassBlockTime=1.5
BlockingPassBlockStrength=1.5

//QB Read base times.
QBRead_Threshold=1
QBScramble_Threshold=1

QBPassingAccuracyBase=1

I do know that Hack added more mid-range passses in his playbooks in the last update. Another suggestion might be to check your DB's speed ratings as the faster they are the more lock-down they are.

I run 10 min quarters.

Hope this helps.

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RE: Hack's Plays v3.4.2 released - 12/4/2008 7:18:05 AM   
hack153

 

Posts: 525
Joined: 11/11/2006
From: New Englander in Northern, Northern California
Status: offline 		Thanks for the kind word.  I'm just trying to make stuff that works and masses will use.  You should check out DreamtheaterVT plays too.  I don't think I'd be playing either if other people didn't make all the add-ons! 

A lot of the stuff I make is from trial & error.  i use online sites, books, other games, and other player created plays as reference.  I'm getting to the point where a lot of my plays are looking similar, but I'm always looking for ways to improve.  At least the playbooks can always be a little different.      

I'll take a look at Smith's passing plays and make some adjustments.  I might have made too many hooks, curls, and short outs.  I'll look into adding some more depth.  I have also made a major adjustment to how defenses are playing zones.  That might have a big impact on passing and running, but then it might not.  That change will be in the next release, which will be sometime this month.  No promises however.  (Of course, if that doesn't work, I'll think of something else to adjust.)

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RE: Hack's Plays v3.4.2 released - 12/4/2008 9:26:09 PM   
rcleslie

 

Posts: 123
Joined: 6/8/2006
Status: offline 		Just wanted to add my thanks for all your playbook work. It saves me a lot of hassles.

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Post #: 16
RE: Hack's Plays v3.4.2 released - 12/5/2008 12:31:04 AM   
hack153

 

Posts: 525
Joined: 11/11/2006
From: New Englander in Northern, Northern California
Status: offline 		thanks!

as stated before, please throw me suggestions on how the playbooks can be better. 

i found a couple more play errors. i've found a couple plays with motions that are not supposed to be there.

< Message edited by hack153 -- 12/5/2008 1:21:33 AM >

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RE: Hack's Plays v3.4.2 released - 12/5/2008 9:01:08 PM   
regenerator

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 12/11/2005
Status: offline 		DreamTeams - I'm running CPU vs. CPU.  What about you?  Those constants you have are pretty wildly different than mine, particular the BaseAccuracy (I think if I set mine to "1" the QB's would all have %100 completions.  Even at '4' its around %80).  I have noticed, I believe, that by raising "QBRead_Threshold" to '4' or greater, the QB's tend to stick around in the pocket longer, and wait for receivers to get open deep rather than throwing dump-offs.  Why do you have your's so low?  Perhaps I misunderstand what that Constant is there for.  Which again brings up a long-running gripe of mine - why weren't the friggin Constants.dat file settings fully explained in the manual in the first place??!

Hack - The short passing game is definitely over-exaggerated.  Just as a test, I started a game with one of the old standard playbooks, "11-PRO-2B 34def.pbk" I believe, and I started seeing a much more realistic passing game only in that QB's were finally throwing the 20-yard darts which I simply haven't seen with these playbooks (there were plenty of things that were very flawed about these old  books that I saw, as well).  The only time the yards/completion is decent with Smith, Goode, etc, is when a long bomb is completed.  So I have a series of 6, 8, 5 yard completions and then maybe a 40-yarder which artificially bumps it up.  I know sometimes this is the way in the NFL, but I am just not seeing any nice 20-yard bullets to a slant route.  It's also noticeably even in passing incompletions.  Using your playbooks, pretty much the only incompletions (other than perhaps in the case of deep passes) I'm seeing are balls that look batted down.  I think this is because QB's aren't trying these types of passes.  Using the older playbook, I saw several different types of incompletions...QB threw a few yards in front of the receiver, over-threw them, etc

The other thing I have noticed is poor clock-management, mostly at the end of the first half.  I believe some of this is in the game's AI which we can't change, but it also is in the profiles.  I am trying to manipulate the "Goode" profile now, as there really isn't a "2-min offense" implemented for the first half in these profiles.

Thanks and hopefully I don't sound too complaining.  If we can get a few more 10-20 yard pass completions, everything will look just about right.

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Post #: 18
RE: Hack's Plays v3.4.2 released - 12/6/2008 2:43:10 AM   
micvik

 

Posts: 139
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		Hey Hack amazing work. I was recently able to test these out cpu v cpu and they work awesome. My only concern is on certain passing plays the cornerbacks will not line up on the WR(they appear to be covering a running back of TE instead of their man) and this results in an easy completion for the offense?

Anyway keep up the good work

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Post #: 19
RE: Hack's Plays v3.4.2 released - 12/6/2008 5:02:12 AM   
DreamTeams


Posts: 520
Joined: 5/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: regenerator

DreamTeams - I'm running CPU vs. CPU.  What about you?  Those constants you have are pretty wildly different than mine, particular the BaseAccuracy (I think if I set mine to "1" the QB's would all have %100 completions.  Even at '4' its around %80).  I have noticed, I believe, that by raising "QBRead_Threshold" to '4' or greater, the QB's tend to stick around in the pocket longer, and wait for receivers to get open deep rather than throwing dump-offs.  Why do you have your's so low?  Perhaps I misunderstand what that Constant is there for.  Which again brings up a long-running gripe of mine - why weren't the friggin Constants.dat file settings fully explained in the manual in the first place??!



Yes, I'm running cpu vs cpu games.

Honestly I can't remember why some of my costants are the way they are anymore. It's true that sometimes it's more than one thing that has to be tweaked in order to get the results you want. Sometimes the gamer will have to tweak his constants and his ratings to get what he wants. But, at times the results will be very different because player ratings in one person's league can be very different from anothers. For me, it was a matter of tweaking and seeing what happened on the field then tweaking again until it started to work. Still, I plan to continue tweaking to fine tune results. I can say that a balance had to be struck between the constants file and the player ratings. For example, I thought I could get better completion %'s by tweaking the constants only. However, I noticed that no matter what I did to try to get more completions, through the constants, it wouldn't work. That is, until I noticed my DB's speed ratings were very high across the league. So, I began tweaking their speed ratings so that they were slower than receivers, but also left a few with solid speed. That opened up the game and my completion ratings increased and started to reflect what I wanted for my league. So, I guess sometimes it's the constant that needs be tweaked and other times it's rating, or both. For example, it might be that the rataings need to be tweaked as a result of constants tweaks and vice-verse. Hope that makes since.


< Message edited by DreamTeams -- 12/6/2008 5:04:22 AM >

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RE: Hack's Plays v3.4.2 released - 12/6/2008 4:09:29 PM   
hack153

 

Posts: 525
Joined: 11/11/2006
From: New Englander in Northern, Northern California
Status: offline
quote:

My only concern is on certain passing plays the cornerbacks will not line up on the WR(they appear to be covering a running back of TE instead of their man) and this results in an easy completion for the offense?


here is a couple key points about this, and why i get so annoyed with it also!

*i've been working on this.  it might sound like it would be an easy fix, but it's not.  first off, there needs to be a "Line-up" on "R5".  however, i am working on changing this in the MainData.

*each time you see this, it is on a defensive all zone play. often (hopefully not after my next release) i used a certain defensive formations against several different offensive formations.  in order to have everyone line-up 100% of the time, i would need to make tons of defensive formations just to play that type of offensive formation.  ex.  42N vs. 1rb,2te,2wr,    42N vs. 1rb,1te,3wr,    42N vs. 2rb,0te,3wr,  42N cs. 1rb,0te,4wr.
this is why you see plays/formations like 41DTE, which is used to play against 1rb,2te,2wr.

quote:

The short passing game is definitely over-exaggerated


*i agree.  this is something i have been looking at.  however, i have not been able to find a happy medium.  i am going to make some adjustments and add "move to" "endzone", "far corner", "post" on more receivers.  the problem with this, is that then you get way too many deep passes.  if you have any exact ideas on how to fix this issue, i am all ears.

quote:

I am trying to manipulate the "Goode" profile now, as there really isn't a "2-min offense" implemented for the first half in these profiles.


*i agree.  i'll add it the list.

time is the issue.  like i said before, it takes several weeks to a month+ to create a playbook.  i am always fixing issues that i or others discover and am always thinking of new ways to make the plays better. 

i understand that the playbooks are not perfect, and probably never will be.  i don't think any computer game can be 100% to what real life is, i can only attempt to make improvements. 

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Post #: 21
RE: Hack's Plays v3.4.2 released - 12/9/2008 3:06:33 AM   
regenerator

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 12/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hack153

time is the issue.  like i said before, it takes several weeks to a month+ to create a playbook.  i am always fixing issues that i or others discover and am always thinking of new ways to make the plays better. 

i understand that the playbooks are not perfect, and probably never will be.  i don't think any computer game can be 100% to what real life is, i can only attempt to make improvements. 


Absolutely understood, Hack. At least yr still with us! And doing great work. All is greatly appreciated.


< Message edited by regenerator -- 12/10/2008 8:23:08 PM >

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Post #: 22
RE: Hack's Plays v3.4.2 released - 12/9/2008 6:37:46 AM   
hack153

 

Posts: 525
Joined: 11/11/2006
From: New Englander in Northern, Northern California
Status: offline 		i think i may have helped the passing issues.  i am extending WR routes to the 15 yard line instead of the 10.  plus, i am adding "move to" "nearest corner", "endzone" etc. to routes that go vertical. 

it seems to be working so far.  but everyone who uses my playbooks will really be the judge. 

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Post #: 23
RE: Hack's Plays v3.4.2 released - 12/9/2008 12:13:23 PM   
simmer

 

Posts: 572
Joined: 11/20/2004
From: Pittsburgh,Pa
Status: offline 		How close are you to a release?

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Post #: 24
RE: Hack's Plays v3.4.2 released - 12/9/2008 2:33:57 PM   
hack153

 

Posts: 525
Joined: 11/11/2006
From: New Englander in Northern, Northern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: simmer

How close are you to a release?



depends.

here's the issue with the next release -> i've deleted most of Coach Wilson's offensive plays. they were poorly put together and not what i really wanted. that playbook will not work. (however, if you copy and paste the files inside of the play folder, it might still work. i'm sure someone knows a way.)

i was going to wait until i finished Williams and Wilson to release. I'm almost done with Williams, and Wilson isn't going be that difficult to re-create. if i completed both, my release would be around the end of the month to the middle of january. however, i am willing to release them without Wilson functioning.

****also, i have edited my MainData and added "Line-up" on R5, and "Key On" R5. i'm not sure if everyone will need to add that also in order for my plays to work properly. i'm thinking they should be fine, but maybe someone else can answer that question...

< Message edited by hack153 -- 12/9/2008 3:53:18 PM >

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RE: Hack's Plays v3.4.2 released - 12/9/2008 6:13:10 PM   
simmer

 

Posts: 572
Joined: 11/20/2004
From: Pittsburgh,Pa
Status: offline 		OK I will wait for your full release...............

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Post #: 26
RE: Hack's Plays v3.4.2 released - 12/10/2008 8:26:39 PM   
regenerator

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 12/11/2005
Status: offline 		Hack, I would take a file without Wilson if that's okay with you. Even if you wanted to email it or something. Let me know what you think.

Thanks

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Post #: 27
RE: Hack's Plays v3.4.2 released - 12/11/2008 2:55:38 AM   
hack153

 

Posts: 525
Joined: 11/11/2006
From: New Englander in Northern, Northern California
Status: offline 		Sure can do.  End of the week maybe...

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Post #: 28
RE: Hack's Plays v3.4.2 released - 12/11/2008 7:11:16 AM   
DreamTeams


Posts: 520
Joined: 5/19/2006
Status: offline 		That would be welcomed.

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RE: Hack's Plays v3.4.2 released - 12/11/2008 7:46:35 AM   
hack153

 

Posts: 525
Joined: 11/11/2006
From: New Englander in Northern, Northern California
Status: offline 		i'll do my best.  although, i do have court the next couple of days.  i never seem to get a day off! 

work all night, go to court in the morning, and then play MF the rest of the day.  thank god for coffee and mountain dew!

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