Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

spouse issues?

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> spouse issues? Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
spouse issues? - 11/23/2008 5:38:08 PM   
mantrain

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 9/3/2008
Status: offline 		Just wondering if anyone has issues from wife re- game play. My wife would rather me wnot playing and does not understand the redeeming value of these games. It's just "killing soldiers." How do you guys explain it, to get the wife in line with the "higher cause."? thanks.
Post #: 1
RE: spouse issues? - 11/23/2008 6:06:39 PM   
SLAAKMAN


Posts: 2725
Joined: 7/24/2002
Status: offline 		Tell her you consider them to be works of art and that she should try them herself.  Maybe you could spice it up by playing together naked!

_____________________________

Germany's unforgivable crime before the Second World War was her attempt to extricate her economy from the world's trading system and to create her own exchange mechanism which would deny world finance its opportunity to profit.
— Winston Churchill

(in reply to mantrain)
Post #: 2
RE: spouse issues? - 11/23/2008 6:15:57 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		We have a spare bedroom with two computers. We dislike most of TV nowadays and listen to talk radio online while doing our computer things. She plays games on Pogo while I play my games and surf.

She knows where I am.
She sees what I see and can read what I read, so no wondering what I'm up to or with who.

Trick of the trade, when she speaks, pause whatever you are playing, turn away from the screen and listen. Don't talk, just pay attention.

(in reply to SLAAKMAN)
Post #: 3
RE: spouse issues? - 11/23/2008 6:50:53 PM   
cdbeck


Posts: 1374
Joined: 8/16/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive
Trick of the trade, when she speaks, pause whatever you are playing, turn away from the screen and listen. Don't talk, just pay attention.


Absolutely imperative. This is a rule no matter what you are doing, really. One that I break more than I should. But you will never see better results than when you stop, look, and listen.

I think that leisure time, sole leisure time, is important for every relationship. People need to have their own little pursuits that exist separate of their partner. However, clearly delineating these pursuits is important, setting US time and then ME time or, like Junk said, have your ME time be together, so the partner still feel connected. It is a tricky game. Much of the time, I have lived in small New York City apartments with my wife, so we had no choice but to be in the same room when I played games!

SoM

_____________________________

"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 4
RE: spouse issues? - 11/23/2008 7:33:09 PM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2614
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mantrain

Just wondering if anyone has issues from wife re- game play. My wife would rather me wnot playing and does not understand the redeeming value of these games. It's just "killing soldiers." How do you guys explain it, to get the wife in line with the "higher cause."? thanks.

I thought that "killing soldiers" is the "higher cause"?
At least in comparison to getting drunk with friends or looking for new women?

_____________________________

People shouldn't ask themselves why schools get shoot up.
They should ask themselves why people who finish schools burned out due to mobbing aren't receiving high enough compensations to not seek vengeance.

(in reply to mantrain)
Post #: 5
RE: spouse issues? - 11/23/2008 8:48:45 PM   
Marauders

 

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline 		One should not take her moral position lightly.  I sometimes wonder about that myself - especially when it comes to my children playing wargames or watching old war movies.  There is nothing wrong with being against war on a moral level, and that could also be extended to artificial war experiences and simulations.

That stated, she should understand that her moral position and your's may not be the same.  Historical war simulations teach logic and can show how war can be so destructive to all involved.  Just as watching murder mysteries does not make one a murderer, playing wargames does not make one a war criminal or uninterested in the moral problems of war.

Good luck with first person shooters though.

(in reply to Perturabo)
Post #: 6
RE: spouse issues? - 11/23/2008 9:30:26 PM   
Phatguy

 

Posts: 1348
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Buffalo,ny
Status: offline 		Tell her that "okay, i'm dropping games and me and the boys are going to a few strip clubs  for t***ies and beer! I wanted to stay home so you knew where I was all the time but........."




_____________________________

My life is complete. 1000 Matrix posts.....

(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 7
RE: spouse issues? - 11/23/2008 10:19:03 PM   
planner 3

 

Posts: 616
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline 		Mantran: If your house space is small, then use my approach.

New house much smaller than pre-retirement home. Requested by spouse to get a hobby, great, says I, I'll reopen my HO Railroad empire in the spare room.....no way says she, find another hobby, bought comp, found war games, found SPwaw, now have 1 desk top comp, 2 lappys (his and hers), bought headset, play all I want, if  she wants something done she knows where I am. So suggest a real expensive hobby, or somthing that takes up precious room, Get the pix ?

(in reply to Phatguy)
Post #: 8
RE: spouse issues? - 11/23/2008 10:20:11 PM   
mikul82

 

Posts: 204
Joined: 3/2/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marauders

One should not take her moral position lightly.  I sometimes wonder about that myself - especially when it comes to my children playing wargames or watching old war movies.  There is nothing wrong with being against war on a moral level, and that could also be extended to artificial war experiences and simulations.

That stated, she should understand that her moral position and your's may not be the same.  Historical war simulations teach logic and can show how war can be so destructive to all involved.  Just as watching murder mysteries does not make one a murderer, playing wargames does not make one a war criminal or uninterested in the moral problems of war.

Good luck with first person shooters though.


I'm very much opposed to war on a moral/ethical/intellectual level, yet I'm absolutely fascinated by it as well and wargames are probably my overall favorite and most played PC games. Playing a wargame feels more to like playing chess than actually witnessing many of the scenes I've read about in history books, just like a FPS like Call of Duty reminds me more of Paintballing with my buddies than anything near what I'd imagine combat would be like (closest to any sort of "combat" I've ever come is punching an unruly drunk out).

I think deep interest in (military/war themed) history is both fun and also a sort of curse to any person with even a slight sense of empathy- I find most of it horrible and depressing, I definitely never want to have any children, yet I can't get enough of it either. To me, military history is the intellectual version of something like crystal meth.

< Message edited by mlc82 -- 11/23/2008 10:21:16 PM >

(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 9
RE: spouse issues? - 11/23/2008 10:39:49 PM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2614
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marauders

One should not take her moral position lightly. I sometimes wonder about that myself - especially when it comes to my children playing wargames or watching old war movies. There is nothing wrong with being against war on a moral level, and that could also be extended to artificial war experiences and simulations.

What games have to do with morality?
Do wargames kill people or what?

_____________________________

People shouldn't ask themselves why schools get shoot up.
They should ask themselves why people who finish schools burned out due to mobbing aren't receiving high enough compensations to not seek vengeance.

(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 10
RE: spouse issues? - 11/23/2008 10:56:44 PM   
Capt. Harlock


Posts: 5358
Joined: 9/15/2001
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
quote:

One should not take her moral position lightly.  I sometimes wonder about that myself - especially when it comes to my children playing wargames or watching old war movies.  There is nothing wrong with being against war on a moral level, and that could also be extended to artificial war experiences and simulations. That stated, she should understand that her moral position and your's may not be the same.  Historical war simulations teach logic and can show how war can be so destructive to all involved.  Just as watching murder mysteries does not make one a murderer, playing wargames does not make one a war criminal or uninterested in the moral problems of war.


I do not take the position lightly, but instead firmly oppose it. To be opposed to war and not study it is much like being opposed to cancer and refusing to learn anything about modern medicine. If you turn your back on a violent man, it's not hard to guess what might happen. If you turn your back on violence itself, there is much the same risk.

One of the most idiotic editorials I've ever read appeared shortly after 9/11. The female writer admonished both Al-Queda and the US, saying "it doesn't matter who started it, people are getting hurt". But if you want to prevent a war, you need to find out who is likely to start it and why -- so it matters, it matters a lot. Likewise, if you want to stop a war, you need to make both sides understand that they're better off not fighting. Almost always this means making at least one side understand that they'll get their collective head blown off unless they stop.

_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 11
RE: spouse issues? - 11/23/2008 11:14:43 PM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2614
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

One of the most idiotic editorials I've ever read appeared shortly after 9/11. The female writer admonished both Al-Queda and the US, saying "it doesn't matter who started it, people are getting hurt".

That's pathetic. Too bad she didn't read about how Talibans made people of Afghanistan safe and happy.

< Message edited by Perturabo -- 11/23/2008 11:15:52 PM >

_____________________________

People shouldn't ask themselves why schools get shoot up.
They should ask themselves why people who finish schools burned out due to mobbing aren't receiving high enough compensations to not seek vengeance.

(in reply to Capt. Harlock)
Post #: 12
RE: spouse issues? - 11/23/2008 11:43:20 PM   
Hertston


Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mantrain

Just wondering if anyone has issues from wife re- game play. My wife would rather me wnot playing and does not understand the redeeming value of these games. It's just "killing soldiers." How do you guys explain it, to get the wife in line with the "higher cause."? thanks.


Spend a couple of weeks obsessively playing Left 4 Dead. Then your Mrs will be so relieved when you go back to wargames you won't have a problem any more.

(in reply to mantrain)
Post #: 13
RE: spouse issues? - 11/24/2008 1:59:26 AM   
sabre1


Posts: 1928
Joined: 8/15/2001
From: CA
Status: offline 		If you want my opinion, and I'm sure you don't but after "three", you are going to get my opinion anyway.  Dump the wife, it only gets worse, problem solved.

(in reply to Hertston)
Post #: 14
RE: spouse issues? - 11/24/2008 2:25:54 AM   
NefariousKoel


Posts: 2930
Joined: 7/23/2002
From: Murderous Missouri Scum
Status: offline 		"Honey, take the kids and get the f out!  I'll send a payoff once a month so you'll leave me alone." 

Maybe you should get her a gaming computer, then get her addicted to some MMO (or Pogo, etc.) as I've seen happen regularly enough.

< Message edited by NefariousKoel -- 11/24/2008 2:27:06 AM >

_____________________________


(in reply to sabre1)
Post #: 15
RE: spouse issues? - 11/24/2008 3:40:01 AM   
Valkyrie


Posts: 109
Joined: 1/2/2008
From: Somewhere in Time
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

We have a spare bedroom with two computers. We dislike most of TV nowadays and listen to talk radio online while doing our computer things. She plays games on Pogo while I play my games and surf.

She knows where I am.
She sees what I see and can read what I read, so no wondering what I'm up to or with who.

Trick of the trade, when she speaks, pause whatever you are playing, turn away from the screen and listen. Don't talk, just pay attention.


Sounds like an excellent compromise solution to me. My ex-husband, however, was too stupid to use a computer, let alone carry on any intelligent conversation so we really didn't communicate much. He did his things and I did mine... perfect relationship in some ways.

Happy to have him gone though - should have dumped him 10 years earlier after my 3rd child was born.

Still, I'd rather have a wargamer husband than a dumb jock any day.

_____________________________

Signature? Maybe someday over the rainbow.

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 16
RE: spouse issues? - 11/24/2008 3:49:43 AM   
SS Hauptsturmfuhrer


Posts: 358
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline 		This topic seems to be common one with gamers.  I'm not married and don't plan to ever be but want to know why people do get married.  Do you married gamers reckon it is worth getting married?  My friend is married and he goes through hell whenever we try to set up a pen & paper RPG or boardgame session with some friends.  There are many conditions and he must endure much nagging.  My point of view is that getting married is like some kinduv religious experience based on tradition rather than on any practical logic (other than spousal tax benefits).  So like why do gamers get married? 

_____________________________

Korsun Pocket

(in reply to NefariousKoel)
Post #: 17
RE: spouse issues? - 11/24/2008 3:52:31 AM   
ilovestrategy


Posts: 3611
Joined: 6/11/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive


Trick of the trade, when she speaks, pause whatever you are playing, turn away from the screen and listen. Don't talk, just pay attention.



YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I always go on pause and face her when talking to her and make sure she knows my full attention is on her.

_____________________________

After 16 years, Civ II still has me in it's clutches LOL!!!
Now CIV IV has me in it's evil clutches!

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 18
RE: spouse issues? - 11/24/2008 4:48:12 AM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2614
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SS Hauptsturmfuhrer

This topic seems to be common one with gamers. I'm not married and don't plan to ever be but want to know why people do get married. Do you married gamers reckon it is worth getting married? My friend is married and he goes through hell whenever we try to set up a pen & paper RPG or boardgame session with some friends. There are many conditions and he must endure much nagging. My point of view is that getting married is like some kinduv religious experience based on tradition rather than on any practical logic (other than spousal tax benefits). So like why do gamers get married?

Personally, I'd never defile my household by marrying with someone from an alien culture. But I do plan marrying when I'll meet a morally/culturally compatible female.

_____________________________

People shouldn't ask themselves why schools get shoot up.
They should ask themselves why people who finish schools burned out due to mobbing aren't receiving high enough compensations to not seek vengeance.

(in reply to SS Hauptsturmfuhrer)
Post #: 19
RE: spouse issues? - 11/24/2008 7:32:45 AM   
Hertston


Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SS Hauptsturmfuhrer

This topic seems to be common one with gamers.  I'm not married and don't plan to ever be but want to know why people do get married.  Do you married gamers reckon it is worth getting married?  My friend is married and he goes through hell whenever we try to set up a pen & paper RPG or boardgame session with some friends.  There are many conditions and he must endure much nagging.  My point of view is that getting married is like some kinduv religious experience based on tradition rather than on any practical logic (other than spousal tax benefits).  So like why do gamers get married? 


Because none of what you actually say, while it's all undoubtably true, actually ends up being relevant. I'd love to tell you that's because of lurrrrvvve, and that meeting the woman of your dreams means you will actually want to get married, but that would be total crap. You just lose the will to resist. And don't let anyone who has been married more than a year tell you otherwise. Anyone married less than a year will still be in shock.



< Message edited by Hertston -- 11/24/2008 7:59:11 AM >

(in reply to SS Hauptsturmfuhrer)
Post #: 20
RE: spouse issues? - 11/24/2008 11:08:43 AM   
cdbeck


Posts: 1374
Joined: 8/16/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		That's awfully cynical Hertson!

Personally, I am for getting to know the person long term before you get married, that way compromises can be met and you run less of a risk of getting "culture" clashes. My wife and I were together for NINE YEARS before we got married and lived together for two of those years. Granted, we are high school sweethearts, and the waiting was more to get us in the right position, financially, educationally, and emotionally, than anything else. I think too many people date for less than a year and then rush down the aisle, never having actually cohabitated to find out the quirks, likes, dislikes of the other person. When I first met my wife, she thought my computer gaming was juvenile and a waste of time (although she tolerated the PnP RPG and boardgaming sessions I hate in college much more). But being together long long term (nine years) meant that she had to accept that I liked to do these things and that I needed time to do them. Likewise, I had to accept that she was a vegetarian and I needed to reign in the meat eating when I was with her. I also had to play the dutiful boyfriend, escort her to places I might not want to go, do dishes when asked, clean house, do laudry. It wasn't an easy process, and it took time to build compromise. I don't believe that you find a person that immediately "fits" like a puzzle piece, I think that relationships are like two trees planted close that start with some branches crossing - they need time and eventually the two trees grow together into one.

Funny, now my wife eats meat (in fact, she likes her steaks nearly raw), and LOVES certain types of boardgames that she wouldn't try in college (particularly Carcassonne, Settlers, Puerto Rico, and Agricola, but she will play and enjoys Battlelore and Memoir '44). With time and compromise, you will be surprised what can happen. Now she still doesn't like computer games very much, but she is very fond of the Wii. It is all about salesmenship, getting to know one another better, and a clear statement that certain things you do are part of who you are and that you respect the way she is, so she should respect they way you are.

SoM


_____________________________

"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade

(in reply to Hertston)
Post #: 21
RE: spouse issues? - 11/24/2008 1:01:38 PM   
oldspec4

 

Posts: 746
Joined: 11/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sabre1

If you want my opinion, and I'm sure you don't but after "three", you are going to get my opinion anyway.  Dump the wife, it only gets worse, problem solved.


Haven't made it to three but my first was for luv and the second for good times (a flight attendant). If I ever try a third it will be for money. I'm gettin' too old to start the financial thing over again.

(in reply to sabre1)
Post #: 22
RE: spouse issues? - 11/24/2008 3:12:32 PM   
sterckxe


Posts: 4605
Joined: 3/30/2004
From: Flanders
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SS Hauptsturmfuhrer
Do you married gamers reckon it is worth getting married? 


Define "worth"

You find someone you like - she likes you - you hang-out a lot - you move in together - then you start thinking that the combined income makes you able to buy/build your own place just like the both of you like it - and it's easier to get a loan if you're married - and it's easier on the kids too if mommy and daddy have signed this piece of paper - and soon you'll think "why not ?"

I can't speak for others, but in my case it just sort of happened, it was the logical thing to do, didn't surprise anyone.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SS Hauptsturmfuhrer
My friend is married and he goes through hell whenever we try to set up a pen & paper RPG or boardgame session with some friends. 


Frankly, this is not a wargaming thing, chances are he'd get the same kind of heat if he was into fishing. Personally I'd dump someone like that in an instant. That's why I possitively recommend people live together before getting married - you get to see the real person then. My wife knew I was into wargaming long before we even started to live together and my bi-weekly gaming sessions are just that : an evening out with the guys, just like someone else goes to a football game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SS Hauptsturmfuhrer
My point of view is that getting married is like some kinduv religious experience based on tradition rather than on any practical logic (other than spousal tax benefits). 


It's actually the reverse over here - if you marry, your taxes go *up* due to the combined income getting taxed at a higher scale and most people are a-religious so that's not it either.

I think it's more like putting a verbal agreement on paper kind of thing. You just have to watch out you're not signing a blank check though

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

(in reply to SS Hauptsturmfuhrer)
Post #: 23
RE: spouse issues? - 11/24/2008 4:27:33 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

Posts: 3545
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline 		I wonder why Marc got married and how does he get along with wife and games... Please, tell us!

_____________________________

You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

MekWars

(in reply to sterckxe)
Post #: 24
RE: spouse issues? - 11/24/2008 4:58:25 PM   
sterckxe


Posts: 4605
Joined: 3/30/2004
From: Flanders
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen
I wonder why Marc got married and how does he get along with wife and games... Please, tell us!


You'd need to ask him, but I guess it was just so to have an EXTREMELY cool name for a wargamer.

I mean : Marc von Martial - how can you beat that

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

(in reply to Kuokkanen)
Post #: 25
RE: spouse issues? - 11/24/2008 5:14:24 PM   
hadberz


Posts: 1629
Joined: 5/11/2000
From: Moncks Corner, SC
Status: offline 		It's your hobby, that should be enough. Just don't let it be the only thing you do, in other words spend time doing what she wants even if its boring.

(in reply to mantrain)
Post #: 26
RE: spouse issues? - 11/24/2008 5:42:19 PM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline 		Marriage is not about gaming. I think us gamers tend to blur the lines on that one. Gaming is a hobby and one that can become so obsessive that a man will lose sight of more important parts of life. Marriage is about a partnership for life and always has to be at the top of the list in terms of importance.  

_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

(in reply to hadberz)
Post #: 27
RE: spouse issues? - 11/24/2008 8:20:09 PM   
Prince of Eckmühl


Posts: 2459
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mantrain

Just wondering if anyone has issues from wife re- game play. My wife would rather me wnot playing and does not understand the redeeming value of these games. It's just "killing soldiers." How do you guys explain it, to get the wife in line with the "higher cause."? thanks.


Find yourself a copy of this and play a few hands with your wife:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_War_(card_game)

Then recount to her an old saying, "to people who feel, life is tragic, while to those who think, life is funny." Explain to her that it's a better world when we analyze warfare rather than engage in it. Conversely, having to "feel" for all those who have suffered its wrath is far too great a burden for you, her husband, to bear. This hobby of yours is emotional armour in a world where thinking about warfare will always be preferable to living it.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)








_____________________________

Government is the opiate of the masses.

(in reply to mantrain)
Post #: 28
RE: spouse issues? - 11/24/2008 9:31:31 PM   
andym


Posts: 1117
Joined: 7/12/2006
From: Kings Lynn UK
Status: offline 		Just offer to buy her a new pair of shoes and a handbag from time to time.........sorted!

_____________________________

Press to Test...............Release to Detonate!

(in reply to Prince of Eckmühl)
Post #: 29
RE: spouse issues? - 11/24/2008 10:26:46 PM   
mikul82

 

Posts: 204
Joined: 3/2/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.

Marriage is not about gaming. I think us gamers tend to blur the lines on that one. Gaming is a hobby and one that can become so obsessive that a man will lose sight of more important parts of life. Marriage is about a partnership for life and always has to be at the top of the list in terms of importance.  


I'm fairly certain you mixed "marriage" and "games" up there...



(not married btw) My girlfriend likes games as well, though not wargames and nowhere near the extent that I do, she's used to my wargame marathons as I'm used to her Sid Meier's Pirates and Tetris marathons.

Nothing like that look from her of trying to act interested but totally confused while in the room with me playing Europa Barbarorum- "Baby check this out, my epilektoi hoplitai just held the line while my hippeis cavalry totally crushed the Roman flank!". I just get the nod and "oh yeah, that's cool..." when in reality she has no idea what I'm talking about. After showing her Pirates!, I couldn't get her off of my computer for the week until I installed on my laptop for her to play it there instead.

I still don't understand what it is with girls and Tetris or Spider Solitaire though. Sure, they're each fun as a quick time killer, but for hours on end? How??

< Message edited by mlc82 -- 11/24/2008 10:30:51 PM >

(in reply to Jeffrey H.)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> spouse issues? Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.844