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Why do you like war? - 11/25/2008 1:58:25 PM   
SS Hauptsturmfuhrer


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Why do you like war? This is many forms: games, books, paintball, army service, documentaries, movies, comics, plastic models etc.

Green troops preparing for combat have often said they are 'excited', 'pumped', and 'wouldn't miss it for the world'. Why?

Focusing on wargames, what is the reason to prefer them over silly, simple games like Tetris and Mario Brothers?

Possible theories could be:

1)You like death. When I see news of huge natural disasters killing thousands of people, I feel nothing except for a slight uneasiness at the fragile mortality of mankind. Therefore, no.

2)You learn from games. You can learn geography, history, famous personalities and occasionally even tactics but learning cannot explain obsessive gaming.

3)To understand war and appreciate what soldiers have died for. Well try reading this quote from Zap on the spouse thread and if this explains you, then you are very unique.

quote:

Tell her, these games are really Learning history about men who served there country. The lessons you are learnig by your hobby teach you much better than a TV war movie would do. Tell her, the hobby has increased your patriotism. Tell her, by playing these games you feel that your appreciation for your freedoms: right to worship, right to pursue happiness, family values has and will continue to increase.


4)The Buzz of Combat This could be the vague reason for it in my case. I like engaging in battles or reading about them where my troops and the enemy are exerting, maiming, bleeding and dying while I enjoy the fracas from the safety of my comfortable, heated home.

5)DNA They say preferences are hardcoded into our DNA. Could this explain the mysterious attraction of war?

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RE: Why do you like war? - 11/25/2008 2:16:27 PM   
SS Hauptsturmfuhrer


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Status: offline 		Ya and if you got any good theories on the attraction of war and wargames, please post away.  

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RE: Why do you like war? - 11/25/2008 2:24:35 PM   
06 Maestro


Posts: 3989
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: Nevada, USA
Status: offline 		The Duce said something to the effect that: " War is to men as giving birth is to women; they fear it, but are compelled to reach for it".
I know that attitude would cover a lot of young men including myself to some degree-I did volunteer into the US Army in early '73. Your quote above about learning history is also accurate for me. I love history-always have. I recall playing a war game that I did not particularly like simply to learn about a given battle-and what the men and commanders had to go through. I have done that quite a few times.

I think it safe to say that after most have tried war for a little while would rather be doing something else-but not everybody. It is clear the ramifications of modern total war have cooled some heels for the last 60 years. War it is still a great challenge, therefore, interesting (compelling?).

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RE: Why do you like war? - 11/25/2008 3:05:23 PM   
Perturabo


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Status: offline 		I like war in games because it's intense.
I hate war IRL because it's not ethical, just random killing.


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RE: Why do you like war? - 11/25/2008 3:18:29 PM   
Terminus


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From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Nobody likes war. At least nobody with any knowledge of it.

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RE: Why do you like war? - 11/25/2008 3:41:28 PM   
Phatguy

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Nobody likes war. At least nobody with any knowledge of it.


Not sure if I agree with that statement..Actually I know I disagree with that statement.

There are people out there who enjoy it. We are all hard coded to be violent to a certain degree. Some actually enjoy the killing.A minority, but those are the ones who usually are
involved in atrocities. I am discounting those who fall under the category of "bloodlust" who are in a momentary trance of bloodletting but I am talking more about people like Reinhard Heidrich(sp?),Temujin and the like.

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RE: Why do you like war? - 11/25/2008 4:32:42 PM   
Widell


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quote:

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker
There are people out there who enjoy it.


Luckily these persons are a small, small minority, actually so small that war crimes on a large scale (WWII Germany, Rwanda, former Yugoslavia etc) cannot be explained by stating they were performed by psychopaths and maniacs, or even led by them (although there were many individuals at the top of things that was not the average John Doe kind of person, they very, very rarely committed any direct crimes themselves).

There's a study of one of the German commands operating in the rear areas "cleaning up" in which none of the persons investigated after the war showed any psychological deviations that could have explained how they were able to do what they did. I read the book, and it was disgusting in its very scientific approach. These were reasonably well educated family men that over time pushed their moral limit further and further away from anything close to being humane and managed to rationalize it in terms of being "efficient", "quick etc. To them it was like going the to the factory and producing your daily quota of things with the least possible negative impact on yourself.

Even if very few events are as bad as the examples I gave, I think that most people hate war regardless of what your role in it is, but in order to prevent you from going insane and ultimately survive, the human mind provides rational explanations and reasons for doing things one would normally not even consider, and since man is a social creature, this rationalization can easily make things spin out of control. The rare psycho adds to the mix, and helps push some of the "normal" people over the line so to say.

Scary stuff indeed!

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RE: Why do you like war? - 11/25/2008 5:16:00 PM   
Marauders

 

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Status: offline 		There are many reasons, but one must also add that we are conditioned for war by our governments.  Fear, patriotism, duty, heroism, justice, retribution, xenophobia, hate, and other factors are taught to most of us from childhood onward.

There are many people who like war, and there are some that still like it after actually fighting in it.  There is likely a relationship between rank and the enjoyment of war as it takes the individual progressively farther away from the actual point of battlefield.  This is especially valid for chickenhawk civilians in the COC who have never had to fight a war on the ground or been in the slop.  I do know some grunts that really like the adrenaline rush of combat, but seeing the carnage of war up close tends to dull that greatly.

The study of war and tactics are a bit different.  That is often a drive to learn and out-think opponents.  That is both learned and instinctual.  The problem is that some people don't know the difference between real war and a war game.

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RE: Why do you like war? - 11/25/2008 5:20:34 PM   
BoredStiff

 

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Status: offline 		Some of you folks kill me. You concern yourself with the correct spelling of Reinhard Heydrich, yet you need not look beyond the spelling of Bush, as an easy example of a war criminal - and that's just the most obvious example.
All of the Vietnam war was a war crime, as were numerous other Anglo-American adventures since then, including and especially the current ones in the middle east.
I came to the conclusion years ago that Americans just aren't happy unless they got a war going somewhere. The day is fast approaching when this is gonna come back and bite them seriously in the ass.
That having been said...



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RE: Why do you like war? - 11/25/2008 5:31:24 PM   
BoredStiff

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marauders

There are many people who like war, and there are some that still like it after actually fighting in it.  There is likely a relationship between rank and the enjoyment of war as it takes the individual progressively farther away from the actual point of battlefield.  This is especially valid for chickenhawk civilians in the COC who have never had to fight a war on the ground or been in the slop.  I do know some grunts that really like the adrenaline rush of combat, but seeing the carnage of war up close tends to dull that greatly.

Well said and agreed, but don't forget that there are many chickenhawk members of the military as well - the perfumed princes types in the higher ranks and the just plain dumbasses in the lower ranks.

I joined the USAF for a few years in the 80's for economic reasons and I was very apprehensive about the possibility of having to fight a war, even despite being in the Air Force which made it unlikely anyone would ever actually shoot at me.
After some time, I came to appreciate that Reagan was not the sharpest knife in the drawer (something I knew from the first time I saw the bozo on TV, but was nevertheless glad to have borne out) and not quite as cunning and devious as many of the people that surrounded him, which lessened his tendency to make adventurous use of the military. For me, it was good that he was a simpleton. I got out in '90. Just in time.

< Message edited by BoredStiff -- 11/25/2008 5:35:21 PM >

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RE: Why do you like war? - 11/25/2008 5:45:10 PM   
Phatguy

 

Posts: 1348
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From: Buffalo,ny
Status: offline 		Someone has issues with Anglo-Americans it seems ......

And pray tell, what is wrong with trying to make sure something is spelled correctly?


And no, I don't see Mr Bush as a war criminal, even if I have a healthy dislike of him...


< Message edited by apathetic lurker -- 11/25/2008 5:47:38 PM >

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RE: Why do you like war? - 11/25/2008 5:48:16 PM   
wdboyd


Posts: 628
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Ohio U.S.A
Status: offline 		The brute bashed the front door in, brandishing an axe! The Husband and father in the house lept to his feet and grabbed his nearby sword.

"I'm going to ravish and murder your wife and daughters after I kill you." the beastial brute growled. "Then I'm going to take all of your possessions for my own. Prepare to die dog,"

The man of the houses eyes narrowed into a glare as he lept forward in defense of all he loved and held dear. The battle that followed was feirce but short.

The brutes body was dragged from the home. Vultures gathered to feast.

"Somtimes one does what has to be done!" The father said as he consoled his terrified family while wiping the blood from his trusty sword.

Story by wdboyd. U.S.M.C. Retired.





< Message edited by wdboyd -- 11/25/2008 5:49:15 PM >

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RE: Why do you like war? - 11/25/2008 5:50:23 PM   
2ndACR


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Status: offline 		Uh Huh........I would love to know how alot of Anglo-American wars were war crimes. And this will go down hill very fast and get locked, but most here refuse to go where these topics can be debated in full. Because they are probably going to be made to look like a fool.

I will not respond to the Bush comment. Sniping is cowardly.

Only way I can figure you thin all these wars are war crimes is because they were not sanctified by the all mighty UN. I prefer the declare war method myself and go for unconditional surrender. That way, you can keep pounding until they cry uncle and beg for you to stop. But that method no longer works. Too many pansy's in Congress that would wet themselves.


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RE: Why do you like war? - 11/25/2008 6:09:58 PM   
Knuckles_85


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From: The hell known as Wisconsin
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

Uh Huh........I would love to know how alot of Anglo-American wars were war crimes. And this will go down hill very fast and get locked, but most here refuse to go where these topics can be debated in full. Because they are probably going to be made to look like a fool.

I will not respond to the Bush comment. Sniping is cowardly.

Only way I can figure you thin all these wars are war crimes is because they were not sanctified by the all mighty UN. I prefer the declare war method myself and go for unconditional surrender. That way, you can keep pounding until they cry uncle and beg for you to stop. But that method no longer works. Too many pansy's in Congress that would wet themselves.



You are right that's why I would like to take this time to invite all that are welcomed to have this conversation at Madcow's Steakhouse. We have politcal opinion from Marxist to Neocon. There is light moderation and no topic is taboo. As a Moderator I promise your voice will not be stiffled. If you're interested just follow the link

http://www.madcowssteakhouse.com/index.php


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RE: Why do you like war? - 11/25/2008 6:47:00 PM   
BoredStiff

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

Uh Huh........I would love to know how alot of Anglo-American wars were war crimes. And this will go down hill very fast and get locked, but most here refuse to go where these topics can be debated in full. Because they are probably going to be made to look like a fool.

It's pointless trying to debate issues with folks who think the daily drivel shown on CNN, Fox and the networks actually qualifies as news.

Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq? Lie.

Saddam Hussein involved in 9/11? Bigger lie.

Spreading democracy? LOL.

Can't find Osama? LOL.

Two steel-and-concrete towers brought down by airplanes? LOL.

Another 47-story steel-and-concrete tower brought down by....what?



I'm probably forgetting a couple of lies, since I stopped listening long ago.

No, you're quite right. It's a waste to time to argue with fools.



< Message edited by BoredStiff -- 11/25/2008 7:00:57 PM >

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RE: Why do you like war? - 11/25/2008 7:03:56 PM   
Paul Vebber


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From: Portsmouth RI
Status: offline 		Locking this up... C'mon folks this board is for discussion of wargames and the history associated with them, not politically motivated accusations.

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RE: Why do you like war? - 11/25/2008 7:08:44 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoredStiff
Some of you folks kill me. You concern yourself with the correct spelling of Reinhard Heydrich, yet you need not look beyond the spelling of Bush, as an easy example of a war criminal - and that's just the most obvious example.
All of the Vietnam war was a war crime, as were numerous other Anglo-American adventures since then, including and especially the current ones in the middle east.
I came to the conclusion years ago that Americans just aren't happy unless they got a war going somewhere. The day is fast approaching when this is gonna come back and bite them seriously in the ass.
That having been said...


Hi, I guess you forgot about the rules on this forum. This thread did not start out as a political thread, but you sure turned it into one with this post.

Consider yourself warned. While you're at it, please change your avatar and take the political show link out of your signature. Thanks.

Thread locked.

Pity as it was an interesting topic, though I think the original poster has a different viewpoint on people than I do. Most people I know who study war for any length of time come to hate it if they didn't already. That's of course different from thinking that war is never necessary. I think if more people studied military history and wargamed, we'd have fewer wars and they'd likely be fought with fewer overall casualties.

Regards,

- Erik


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RE: Why do you like war? - 11/25/2008 7:10:39 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
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From: Vermont, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoredStiff
Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq? Lie.
Saddam Hussein involved in 9/11? Bigger lie.
Spreading democracy? LOL.
Can't find Osama? LOL.
Two steel-and-concrete towers brought down by airplanes? LOL.
Another 47-story steel-and-concrete tower brought down by....what?
I'm probably forgetting a couple of lies, since I stopped listening long ago.
No, you're quite right. It's a waste to time to argue with fools.


"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln

Please see my comments above, this kind of stuff does not belong here, neither does your avatar or your sig.

Regards,

- Erik


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